Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Well it has no recording ability yet. I don't think the mic will ever be recordable, but fortunately for TAS the mic isn't usually an important aspect of games to be TASed :)
But yeah, when it gets re-recording abilities, a TAS is very realistic.
A whole bunch of tantalizing quotes from someone on the ICP forum, indicating he has a rerecording DS and PC emulator:
Kikkin_Man wrote:
doing a TAS is easy if you have tons of free time (like me) and patience (somehow, when i do crazy s*** like this, i have plenty of it). I've done several so far.
Super Mario 64 (D.S. version) in 5:24
IC campaign in 2.32:47
Super Mario 64 (Nintendo version) in 16:34
and finaly (my most way out one ever thats somewhere on the computer) Half Life (ORIGINAL) in 22:07 (due to the fact that everything in the game is set, and i had about 22 hours of free time and a good ai programming knowledge of half life and was able to create a jump-map and a shot-map for the game, it was easy.)
might upload them if i can get my youtube account working for more than half an hour.
the ds version of the mario TAS was done on an emulator with savestats and slowdown on the 6 star method.
The DS emulator of course. Rather than explain the 6 star method, do a youtube search for it, if its not on youtube, do a GoogleVideo search.
search for mario 64 speedrun, it should come up with something close to 6 mins.
(i forget the site i got the emulator from, all i remember is doing a google search for it)(can't wait for the HALO 3 RoM to come out!)
i used the 1st (emulator) i could find.
I've asked a few times about where he got the emulators, and to see the videos. He hasn't sent me either. I'll keep trying.
A whole bunch of tantalizing quotes from someone on the ICP forum, indicating he has a rerecording DS and PC emulator:
Kikkin_Man wrote:
...cut down to save space...
I've asked a few times about where he got the emulators, and to see the videos. He hasn't sent me either. I'll keep trying.
Wow, Chamale, you listen to Insane Clown Possie?!
Anyways, from how vague this dude was, and how he seemed to dodge any attempts to reply to your inquires, it sounds like he is blowing smoke out of his ass.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Raiscan wrote:
qFox wrote:
I don't think the mic will ever be recordable
Why not?
Ok maybe I should refrase that. The DS is a finite state machine. This means it has a certain states, but as technology advances, so does it's complexity.
For the DS the randomizer is far better from, let's say, the NES. I'm asuming it uses the clock, for one. The mic, if turned on, should (or could) also put something in the mix.
So, in order for you to record a replayable not-desyncing video on a DS while using the mic, you need to catch EXACTLY what the DS catches on it's mic, and save it. That means NO lossy encoding (like MP3). This in turn means very big "key"-files.
Oh did I mention it's quite hard to reproduce sound frame-by-frame? It's not like you can talk in frames.
So no, I don't think the mic will be used in a TAS, or be recorded in a DS emulator.
I have to admit I'm not really aware of what games require a microphone and what they require it for. Can you give me some examples? It might help me understand whether recording sound has any value at all for speedrunning.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I have to admit I'm not really aware of what games require a microphone and what they require it for. Can you give me some examples? It might help me understand whether recording sound has any value at all for speedrunning.
Zelda: Phantom Hourglass uses the mic for a couple of functions (blowing out candles is one of them).
Surprisingly, no other games come to mind at the moment, although i'm certain others do exist that would be good for a tas.
Sweet, now I can start to imagine situations where we'll be saying, "All right, we've got to find a way to produce the shortest sonic waveform that the game will register as 'blowing'."
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I have to admit I'm not really aware of what games require a microphone and what they require it for. Can you give me some examples? It might help me understand whether recording sound has any value at all for speedrunning.
Zelda: Phantom Hourglass uses the mic for a couple of functions (blowing out candles is one of them).
Surprisingly, no other games come to mind at the moment, although i'm certain others do exist that would be good for a tas.
Diddy Kong Racing uses it, for blowing out lights and spinning both the hovercraft's and airplane's propeller at the beginning of the course for that extra boost. However, since we already have a DKR movie, I dont see a use for another one
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
So, in order for you to record a replayable not-desyncing video on a DS while using the mic, you need to catch EXACTLY what the DS catches on it's mic, and save it. That means NO lossy encoding (like MP3). This in turn means very big "key"-files.
There's a pretty simple work around for the size issue: make "frames of input" a chunk-based format, so that they can add or remove chunks as necessary. For instance, if a 100,000 frame TAS only uses the microphone for 3 bouts of 10 frames, you would only need 30 frames to have the "microphone input" chunk.
Further space can be saved by encoding the mic data as FLAC, rather than PCM.
Oh did I mention it's quite hard to reproduce sound frame-by-frame? It's not like you can talk in frames.
But it is not difficult to draw a curve on a timeline, and then have the emulator sample the amplitude at 44100 hz or whatever rate.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
So, in order for you to record a replayable not-desyncing video on a DS while using the mic, you need to catch EXACTLY what the DS catches on it's mic, and save it. That means NO lossy encoding (like MP3). This in turn means very big "key"-files.
what you do is encode it in real time and then use that instead of the source.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Uh, yoshi touch and go uses the mic to blow away clouds. But agreed, there's not a whole lot of games that would use it in a TAS.
As for audio in playbackfiles, Upthorn my argument stands that inputting cerain audio when working frame by frame is still very difficult (but pre-defined or pre-recorded sounds could be done yes).
Still, as mentioned before, there are no real TAS games where the mic plays an important role (although I don't know any other method to remove all the clouds in yoshi, and I could imagine that coming in handy at some point).
As for audio in playbackfiles, Upthorn my argument stands that inputting cerain audio when working frame by frame is still very difficult (but pre-defined or pre-recorded sounds could be done yes).
Did you miss the part where I suggested making a simple TAS audio input where the player just draws a curve on a timeline?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
No, I commented on it by "but pre-defined or pre-recorded sounds could be done yes". At least, I would say such a curve would fall under pre-defined sounds. And you are right about that, that could work. I liked the pre-recorded sounds idea better though :)
Frankly, i'm surprised that i'm the only person in the universe who has wondered about this fact. I mean, the DS uses cartridges, no? That means there's probably an emulator around somewhere, with ROMs as well.
I guess my question is: do we have a chance of seeing any DS TASes in the future? I would love to see one of Castlevania: DoS
[Edit by Bisqwit: Merged into existing thread.]
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
At the moment there is no DS emulator which works without flaws, even less one with re-recording and TASing tools. It'll probably happen in the close future, just not right now.
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Emulators and ROMs are there alright, but none of the emulators are able to emulate them even remotely well at the moment. Too early to worry about DS. (And yes there is a topic for it so you're not the only one wondering.)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
