Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks for the damage table, Boco.
The spell cost table was all ????? for me, so I didn't understand anything... I'm guessing this is because I don't have japanese (I'm guessing it's japanese) installed on my webbrowser. Is the page available in English too? Good luck finding the HP table too :)
GameFAQs has a document with tables of how many hits are required to kill each monster at each attack level.
The tables are in the "BEATING ZELDA 2 WITH LEVEL 1 ATTACK" section of the document.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks a lot Dacicus :D I'll read through that document later today.
Although your link didn't work I managed to find that document manually on Gamefaqs. I don't know why, but it's not possible to link directly to a .txt file on Gamefaqs, I've heard of people having problem with this before.
I'm thinking about doing a "EXP / Hit" table too, to get a hunch of what enemies that should be killed and who to keep alive. This is of course not perfect measurement in any way, but I think it could prove useful.
Oops. I forgot about that direct linking thing with GameFAQs. Sorry. Just in case anyone else wants the document, it's called "Game Challenges FAQ" by CrazyLaz.
You could probably use "curl" or any other link referral tool for that matter, but that would probably be more hazzle than to just go to gamefaqs and search for the text manually. :D
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Randil? Lost interest? Randil?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Yeah, I kind of lost interest in this, then I started working on other runs and just never took this up again... I don't know, perhaps I'll eventually take this up one day. If anyone else has been thinking about doing a run of this game, then by all means do so, if I take this project up again it won't be for a few weeks at least...
Or if any zeldafreak out there wants to help out planning the route and stuff, then I'll gladly accept your help, but as I said, right now I'm busy with other stuff... but somewhere in the future perhaps.
Thanks for showing interest in this btw Angerfist, I thought it had been long forgotten in the pile of topics :)
It's at least useful to note that none of those finds look useful to the warped run. :)
As for how it might be reproduced, it doesn't sound like he did anything special. It even reminds me of old Game-Genie bugs from playing too long (or crooked cartridge buggyness in Ocarina Of Time.) Hoping that it wasn't something like that.
So, thinking out loud, could it have something to do with screen transitions when the enemies are in a certain state? Or there being "too many" on screen at once? Or multiple just off the screen? Hmmm...
Yeah, this sounds like it would be very useful in a TAS if it is reproducible...
It sounds to me like an overflow error. I dont remeber if the Mahgo drain EXP or if there's some other monster there which does but it sounds like he got hit for a drain while he was low or empty but that it happened at the same time as the transition? bypassing the check to see if his EXP was 0? so when the value hit negative it instead went as positive as possible.
EDIT: Some random things levelling up plus 6 extra lives at 9000 each makes it sound like he got 65535 EXP or thereabouts, which would definitely point to an overflow error.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
I started that thread at SDA, so I suppose I could verify that it did indeed happen. :)
I wrote a response refuting Boco's theory, but as I was writing, what s/he wrote sounded more and more logical. There is an orange Moa (the flying eyeball that drops fire) flying around in the room I entered, and they DO steal your experience, so that honestly sounds like what happened. I guess I got hit during the transition by that thing, it stole ALL my experience (somehow, which was at least a couple hundred), and then caused an under/over flow. Does that sound plausible?
If this is true, you could possibly accomplish this in the first palace, since the running orange-ish things that are in nearly every room steal your experience. Or even before that, since in the forest, the orange moblins (sp) steal your experience as well. And having your attack, life and magic all maxed out in the first minutes of the game would speed this run up considerably.
Also, since I'm here, somebody needs to finish the tool-assisted run of the US version of this game. Please? :)
you could possibly accomplish this in the first palace, since the running orange-ish things that are in nearly every room steal your experience.
I just tried exactly this after reading Boco's post. I got within 1 sub-pixel of going to the next room, then let 'em knock me in there...no go, they simply drained the usual max of 10 points. I even tried doing various jumping/moving/attackingactions at the same time, but nothing... :/
Seems like there's some kind of additional condition to trigger such a glitch. Maybe having too many sprites on screen at once, or something else totally unrelated and obscure like that? Possibly something that taxes the game's memory a lot, increasing the chances of errors and miscalculations...*shrug*
tmont wrote:
Also, since I'm here, somebody needs to finish the tool-assisted run of the US version of this game. Please? :)
Uh, yeah...I don't even remember by now who it was that was doing the run. <_<'
I just tried exactly this after reading Boco's post. I got within 1 sub-pixel of going to the next room, then let 'em knock me in there...no go, they simply drained the usual max of 10 points. I even tried doing various jumping/moving/attackingactions at the same time, but nothing... :/
Well, that's not exactly what happened. If I did indeed get hit by the moa as I transitioned into the next room, then I got hit AS I transitioned, not before, since the moa is part of the room I was entering, not the room I was exiting (if that makes any sense). So, I suppose what would have to happen is that you'd have to somehow get hit by one of the orange-ish things from the room you're entering, not the room you're exiting. And the more I think about it, I don't think that will work either. Those things in the first (and third) palace(s) don't immediately spawn off screen; there's some delay. As far as I can tell (and remember), the moas immediately spawn as soon as you enter the screen, so that might have had something to do with it. If this glitch is truly dependent on entering a room that has a moa, then that would mean the earliest you could possibly do it would be in the 2nd palace, I think.
Or, it might just be some conditional anomaly that will never happen again. Which would be sad.
Also, if people actually want to continue to test this, I jumped right before exiting the room (and entering the transition), so that might have something to do with it. There was no visible evidence that I got hit by anything, and I don't remember if my health was lower or not. This is all very curious...
Edit: So I did some testing myself on the console. I went to the same place in the 5th palace where it occurred the first time. I couldn't duplicate it. However, I'm becoming more and more dubious that this glitch actually had a logical reason for occurring and am beginning to believe it was just divine providence. I observed the path of the orange moa in that room, and if you enter that room (with the falling breakable blocks) from the right, the moa doesn't even spawn until you get to the third column of breakable blocks from the right. So, it doesn't seem possible that I got hit by a moa on my way in, unless something random occurred when transitioning from room to room. If you enter that same room from the left, the orange moa will spawn immediately from the right side of the screen. In fact, the moa will spawn from whichever side of the screen that Link is facing. So, to even get hit by the moa during the transition, Link would have to be facing right. But the game automatically makes Link face the opposite direction of the side he came in on (if you enter from the right, you face left), so there doesn't seem to be a way to make the moa spawn from the right, and hence, Link can't be hit by it.
I went to the next room, where there are three orange ironknuckles, and also an orange moa flying around. When you enter that screen from the right, there is a high ledge that is right at the level of the moa when it exits the screen. So I tried the same thing as 4matsy, and let it hit me as I transitioned, but nothing happened. It stole my experience, but nothing cool happened. Also, moas steal 10 experience.
In conclusion, I have no idea.
There could be a lot of things to cause it but in most games with errors like this where you suddenly jump to the maximum possibe value it's because you somehow got negative (like in Simcity, Rockman X8, Final Fantasy 4 & 5, etc)... so the only way I could think of is EXP-draining enemies, unless you can somehow let it give you a level when you don't have enough EXP for it.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
BTW, just so you guys know. It's possible, in the glitch route at the very least, to improve the bit between the Zelda's Palace and the first cave. You don't need to go over twice, just once. You can barely miss the enemy.
So overworld movement needs to be worked out more accurately.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Interesting, Omni. I attempted as little movement as possible in my run so I am surprised. Other places to improve in that run:
You can also knock a couple of frames by exitting the start palace to the left instead of the right, I think there was one place you could knock a frame off by bunny hopping before the "need"-long-jump cave, and I believe you can knock off about three frames from the final "need"-long-jump cave, however the reason I didn't knock these off in my run in the first place is that they kept throwing off the luck manipulation crossing the swamp.
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody could knock a little time off of it now that there's closer to 25 frames of freedom. (Also because I'm not particularly incredible with luck manipulation. ^_~)
Also, another thing about my run that bugged me was in the Dark Link battle. Basically, every single time I fought Dark Link I had to wait to do my first hit because he'd jump over it... no matter what I did! Even knocking entire seconds off of the run didn't help. I believe the original glitched submissions didn't have to. It's just another potential spot to drop frames.
Now, the potentially-new-super-glitch mystery is quite boggling. Hmmm...
Hello.
Ive been a longtime fan of this site, and this is my first post.
Been thinking about making a TAS of this game. I tried to do a run on console a couple years ago, and lost interest after my tenth or so try through the game. Work and university got in the way too.
Now, I'm livin' the goodlife of unemployment insurance,, and no university. Need something to do with all the excess time I have too! I have most of a run planned out as is. Also completed my first TAS not long ago (spelling my name in Dragon Warrior XD). I'm fairly confident I could do this game really fast.
Also, with regards to the level up glitch you mentioned,,,,
I remember having a game genie code from long ago (ten years or more O_O) that would reproduce that result without fail (enough experience to max levels and gain 4 extra lives). This would happen every time I killed an enemy,,, it must have been giving me negative exp for each kill.
Outside of game genie though, I don't recall having seen this happen. Two ideas Ive had are,, you somehow got hit by the moa twice, or maybe exp from a weak enemy like a slime was being added at the same time you got hit.
I think I'll experiment around a bit and see if I can reproduce this.
Yes.
UPDATE!!
I have spelled my name and gotten the first magic container. Am currently at entrance to second cave (jump spell).
I also plan on using Up+A warping. Is that "against the rules"?
