Atma ever since you made that minish cap test run in like 2 days ive been wondering, are you a machine ? :D
anyways keep up the good work, gonna watch this new wip
Atma ever since you made that minish cap test run in like 2 days ive been wondering, are you a machine ? :D
anyways keep up the good work, gonna watch this new wip
notice a trend? this is a testrun too. the minish cap run is barely 2/5ths done, and will be done after i finish this (I swear Tub).
Depending on some other input, i may or may not actually do a proper version of this after I finish, since the only part I, at least, find enjoyable to watch is the story parts and the (fought) battles, which are few and far between.
Since they aren't avoidable fights (essentially all but 1, *maybe* 2 fights I did were forced). I'll probably only fight another dozen escapable battles in the run in total, with them being fought on giant isle (I'm going to try my hand at some serious k.sludge manipulation, see if i can get 12 of those in a row, and have none of them pwn me).
the minish cap run is barely 2/5ths done, and will be done after i finish this (I swear Tub).
I'll get back to you on that :p
I've played BoF2 long ago, just once, not even sure I finished it. Unfortunately the last Windows-machine in my network died a couple of days ago, and I could neither get nitsujas snes9x-version nor his vgb-version compiled on linux, so I'm not going to post here much for now.
Wow, that BoF3 run came completely out of left field for me. I was totally excited, then I saw that it was over 10 hours. Huh? I don't get it; the guy who does it seems rather competent, but that time looks pretty bad. I haven't finished downloading it yet though, as a disclaimer.
Also, I'm totally surprised that BoF2 would take over 5 hours, since I would have bet that the console speedrun would be around that long (and my intuition is pretty good for these sort of things).
I do agree with everyone that I would love to see a BoF3 TAS, since it is my favorite in the series behind 5. I have noticed a strange phenomenon with 3 that I don't recall seeing with any other game. People who are BoF fans seem to rate 3 very highly, liking it more than 4. Yet people who don't care as much for BoF all seem to like 4 better. I've asked over 50 people, and this always seems to hold. I have my theories, but it's still weird. And now that I've posted this, someone will offer themselves as a counterexample. ;)
I think BoF3's pretty bad and the video seems to confirm my initial impression (I gave up 30 minutes into it), 4 hours into a SPEEDRUN and Ryu is still a kid doing pointless things totally unrelated to the BoF storyline. If you changed the sprites and some of the names, it could be any other RPG. Maybe it gets better when he grows up but I don't have the patience to wade through generic gameplay and plot before getting to it.
Favorite & best BoF is #2.
me = addict. wine to the rescue! Although it has issues (lots!), I'm now watching your run.
On your quest for getting the worm, cockroach and golden fly for the cooking contest, you enter the windmill on the roof, pick 3x 1000c from the wall, then ride the elevator down. You don't need the cash down there, so wouldn't it be faster to grab it on your way back (somewhere around frame 379.800)? Or do the coins mysteriously disappear by then?
me = addict. wine to the rescue! Although it has issues (lots!), I'm now watching your run.
On your quest for getting the worm, cockroach and golden fly for the cooking contest, you enter the windmill on the roof, pick 3x 1000c from the wall, then ride the elevator down. You don't need the cash down there, so wouldn't it be faster to grab it on your way back (somewhere around frame 379.800)? Or do the coins mysteriously disappear by then?
I didn't even think of doing that until I actually had done that entire part, after which i thought 'no fuck that, i'm not redoing that all now, its a test run'.
I also ran out of w.fruit during the boss fight, so I should ideally restock on those or buy more in the actual run should it happen (10 should do me until that scenario is over ideally).
Now its time for me to save at the simafort statue, have rand/jean/*/ryu and roll back to hometown. after that, I change characters to ryu/katt/nina/jean, and suicide to get back near simafort. then to play with the whale, joy!
no wip for this post, just moreso a status update than anything.
I've gotten the whale (joy!), Deis (Bleu, I will call her Deis from this point), and have started my long journey to pwnage. right now my team consists of Ryu, Katt, Rand and Deis, and I'm playing on giant isle.
I managed to kill one lot of triple k.sludges (and net an outrageous amount of exp at that), but not without Katt dying. Ryu/Rand gained 5/6 levels, Deis didn't get one, and it would seem that she's rather useless unless she gets her later spells. boo. at least she can use warp which will save time I guess.
While I haven't checked the charts, I'm thinking that 10-20 lots of k.sludges should be about right. 2 turns per fight, one menu access between for ap recovery, and reasonable allowance for manipulation, will give me about 210,000-420,000 exp which should easily cover me for the entirity of the game.
Potential changes when i have to get off of the isle for a bit include changing to Sten instead of Rand, and if she's at level 39, Nina instead of Deis, as those 2 have 'self' scenarios, which although not lasting long, would be troublesome if they're weak.
comments/suggestions/etc?
hmm... an annoying problem has arisen from these lovely and ever so giving k.sludges.
I've managed to get it down so i can kill them without too much difficulty, but after 3 lots of 3 its now at the point where it takes 3 w.fruits to max out the ap. while this isn't a major thing to worry about when at the level gained after those 3, pretty much the next boss will up the max ap to 43. 40/41 ap still gives max damage from a dragon attack (512), but 40/43 gives a fair drop of 460. This is somewhat bad.
While the level ups are appreciated in terms of other people doing damage, they make it a fair bit harder to use in the sense I need ryu to be alive to kill the k.sludges, but i dont want him to level up to cap out on the ap cost. Using Deis for 4 fights will only give her 2 levels ups, while everyone else gets about a dozen (as such she learns 2 of 4 spells she doesn't have that are stronger than the rest of their type).
what to do...
I am curious about Sten - Aren't you required to use him for a few solo battles? It's been a while since I've played BoF2 (VERY slow and plodding, at least the SNES version, prefer the GBA one which kicks up the gold and exp for each battle). If he's at a low-level, I imagine it'll be hard to win these fights.
As for your most current problem, have you calculated whether the drop in damage will definitely hurt you down the line? I'm sure it will reduce damage, but there are also some really nasty bosses in the final dungeon. Would Ryu and other party members even be able to live through certain attacks without higher levels?
Anyway, I haven't looked at the WIP yet, but I will soon, since I have played and beaten this game, and I did enjoy it despite the pacing.
Also - Have you looked into using shamans and the transformations? I remember that some are much more powerful than others, which could be useful for dungeons and boss battles.
First off, just letting you guys know that while I haven't watched the BoF3 run except for bits and pieces, I have looked into matters and while there's room for improvement, the run is actually pretty solid. It's done by DavidK5, who has the best BoF3 guide at gamefaqs, the BoF5 sticky, and has Perfect Dark records at the-elite. You can take a look at the speedrun guide here.
SGreenwell wrote:
Would Ryu and other party members even be able to live through certain attacks without higher levels?
This is a TAS, you know. You'd be able to beat the game even without fighting K Sludges and the like.
SGreenwell wrote:
Also - Have you looked into using shamans and the transformations? I remember that some are much more powerful than others, which could be useful for dungeons and boss battles.
I can't speak for Atma, since he's actually working on this, but IIRC they aren't worth the time to get the shamans and then combine. There may be exceptions. Also remember that all of them get unattached near the end too.
Would Ryu and other party members even be able to live through certain attacks without higher levels?
This is a TAS, you know. You'd be able to beat the game even without fighting K Sludges and the like.
Quite probably, although it would be somewhat painful, as I'd have less room for manipulation in terms of taking hits for favourable results I'm thinking. So far I've managed to work my way through a majority of boss fights without anyone dying (except sten, who I dont really care for and thus let die so i didn't have to test many other frames). I still have really sucky weapons though, which is a troublesome point. Perhaps the treehouse guy could fix that up in the next one, but that'd require saving him and I have no idea on if stronger weapons would even be useful. and save that much time.
SGreenwell wrote:
Also - Have you looked into using shamans and the transformations? I remember that some are much more powerful than others, which could be useful for dungeons and boss battles.
I can't speak for Atma, since he's actually working on this, but IIRC they aren't worth the time to get the shamans and then combine. There may be exceptions. Also remember that all of them get unattached near the end too.
Indeed, the only useful tranceformations are ones that use holy/devil(earth?) shaman, and those are the last ones possible to attain. not to mention theres the time transforming, and then the fact I run away from random battles successfully 100% of the time. The fact that they unbond is a key point in the 'screw it, I wont bother' case, as Enhasa mentioned.
Overall, I only need sten for like, 2 battles after i get jean, so its not really an issue since he just has to kill trubo, similar with nina except i need her for a while for the great bird.
The transformations might help for awhile, but there are several scripted events which change party members back if they are tranformed. I think there's one in the St. Eva grand church, but the most significant one is in Dologany. When Ryu gets Infinity (Or Anfini, whatever) all the party members change back. So that'll make transforming for the final area mostly useless, since there's no required battle before Dologany (that I remember), and after that you'll have Barubary and Deathevn to contend with, and I can't imagine you'd leave the final dungeon to go back and transform just for those last two bosses. I've never even done that myself, and I believe that you'll only lose the transformations again ANYWAY when Deathevn does the whole crystal shattering thing.
But, transformed Katt is pure awesome.
As for the leveling, I'm not too sure what to do with Ryu. Chances are he'll gain more AP by the end of the game anyway, requiring more W Fruits.
You can't transform for Deathevn since he kills your 3 party members.
You can, he might kill them but they come back in the form they were in upon death, so if they were bonded before, they're bonded after being revived by Anfini.
You can, he might kill them but they come back in the form they were in upon death, so if they were bonded before, they're bonded after being revived by Anfini.
Unfortunately you'll still need to exit the dungeon and reenter after GETTING Anfini. So unless you need the transformed forms for Barubary and Deathevn it would be best not to bother.
new wip.
Finishes up my full game required levelling, so I'll get right back on track after I resume.
A problem, however, has risen. Deis, my sheer powerhouse of the magic field (who helps me in my 'dont bother with another dragon spell' kills), has pretty much gotten all her spells, or at least she will have her final one by the time I finish up in the queen. However, she can't use Missile nor Bolt X, despite having more than enough AP to do so. wtf is up with this? Can anyone give me a realistic answer on why she can't cast them (yet?)?
I know that Bleu starts at Lv35. She gets Missile at Lv38 and Bolt-X at Lv39, so is she even that high yet? If she is, and she has AP, and the spells are still greyed out, then I'm not really sure what could be wrong. I'll take a look at your set-up when I watch the movie and see if I can figure it out.
Ok, I asked around at an RPG forum, and it seems that it's a bug. Bleu learns the spells at 38 and 39, but she needs to actually hit 40 or so to use them. Not sure of the specific level, somewhere between 40-45 I believe.
Looking at some old ZSNES savestates I have, two of them have Bleu hacked to Lv99. In one she can use the spells, and the other she can't, strange. So there must be some sort of level trigger in Lvs40-45 that allows her to use em.
Well that seems to be the answer, anyway. Since she just hit 39 at the end of your movie have you tried getting her to 40 yet?
Ok, I asked around at an RPG forum, and it seems that it's a bug. Bleu learns the spells at 38 and 39, but she needs to actually hit 40 or so to use them. Not sure of the specific level, somewhere between 40-45 I believe.
Looking at some old ZSNES savestates I have, two of them have Bleu hacked to Lv99. In one she can use the spells, and the other she can't, strange. So there must be some sort of level trigger in Lvs40-45 that allows her to use em.
Well that seems to be the answer, anyway. Since she just hit 39 at the end of your movie have you tried getting her to 40 yet?
Ok, I did a little testing on this. turns out that its got jack shit to do with what level you're at. It seems there's some sort of counter (whether it counts up or down, I have no idea) on random (world map?) battles fought (not ran away from). I say (world map?) because when i went blasting through the queen, I must've fought a ton of enemies, but it still didn't give me access. I just gained another level up on the state I'm using to actually continue from the movie, and killed about a dozen random encounters on the overworld (admittedly, all with auto and no magic, but no magic usage doesn't seem to matter) outside hometown and gained access to them.
So hmm, looks like I'm in a bit of a pinch. Would more than 12 random *fought* battles to enable bolt x save more time than just skipping them and not ever being able to use bolt x? I'm leaning towards no, so this would more or less cancel out the need for extra levelling on k.sludges, which would make me a fair bit weaker, but potentially allow me to skip going over the 40AP cap if things work out (although unlikely). Fireball is actually the only spell I use with Deis anyway, since bolt x wasn't active. Hmm... decisions decisions.
Also, I'm definitely not doing a final version of this (if I do decide to anyway) until a memory viewer is added to snes9x, so I can actually manipulate useful enemy item drops *all drops seen in this run are complete and utter luck, no manipulation was involved*.
*pre-post edit* maybe it was because they were all 1 turn kills of the enemy? i dont know.
