Happy that one movie was published now :)
Now lets think about a "most levels" ?
hehe ! nice truncated !
Hey Joyleopard , where are you from ?
I'm really curious about a country where they still play genesis !
I'm from the good ol USA. I received one of those Sega games that you plug into the TV without the console system. There's 6 games loaded onto it and it was bought at BestBuy.
Can you seriously say that when you first got Kid Chameleon waaaaaaaay
back when that you easily got through Highwater Pass II?
Didn't anybody get stuck trying to get up that tunnel? I keep destroying the block that I jump up on and then I'm stuck down there for good.
All I was asking for is a helpful hint on getting though that part.
I have to shut the game off everytime.
After reading your posts I wonder if you're all students at MIT?
Take pity on an absolute beginner! I searched the web for a site that could help me and I found this one.
Thanks,
Joy
hey ! I saw one of those little genesis in Paris !
Didn't notice that this game could be played on it ... !
Anyway, if you're looking for some soluce, you should search somewhere else. This forum is mostly about speed runs !
You'ld better check this website http://www.gamespot.com/genesis/action/chameleonkid/ or search on google.
Thanks xou for the link to that website! You're the best. I will go there and check it out. Who knows...maybe in about 20 years I'll be good enough on the game to come back and show my speed run!
My best to you all.
Joy
Guys, you shouldn't have been so rough. I have seen the exact system Joy was talking about, in a lot of places, and getting that as a Christmas present is certainly not out of the ordinary.
As previously stated, you plug it into the TV without a console or cartridges. It comes with a 3-button controller which is quite similar to the actual Genesis one (although the d-pad looks different), and plays 6 games. For the curious, those would be:
- Sonic 1
- Golden Axe
- Altered Beast
- Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
- Flicky
- And most importantly, KID CHAMELEON~! (this kinda piqued my interest in this thing, as I still have not been able to find this blasted game for my actual Genesis!)
I have no idea how accurate the emulation here is...I fear they messed up the sound like they did in the Dreamcast Sega Smash Pack, but maybe they got things right. *shrug*
Anyway...
Joy, be prepared to curse this game. It has a reputation for being ridiculously long and hard, which is well-deserved...there are easily over 100 levels total, with a huge variety of possible routes to take. And unless your system is different than the Genesis, there are no saves or passwords.
But if you're willing to keep at it, you'll likely be looking at Gamefaqs a lot. If you can't get help there, then don't be afraid to ask here. =)
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
>Didn't anybody get stuck trying to get up that tunnel? I keep destroying the block that I jump up on and then I'm stuck down there for good.
No you're not... just press C to climb up. Unless you managed to lose all five of your hitpoints, of course.
And yeah, I could figure that out even when I was 12 and didn't go to MIT. :P
Hm, well.... if you have problems with the third level, things are not looking to bright for you. This game is HARD.
OK, this is pissing me off to no end.
Highwater Pass 1 is CONSTANTLY desyncing on me. I've currently managed to get about halfway through until it happens, but that in itself took a lot of time. Basically, the game is a risk to desync after anything that requires frame advance, it seems.
Truncated, did you have any problems after switching to 9c? And do you have any ideas as to what may be going wrong?
EDIT: If it helps anyone...I play at 25% speed, in windowed mode, with the sound at 44100. Controllers 1 and 2 are 6-button.
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Hm, nope. No problems with desynching at all, neither in 8, 9a or 9c. I'm not sure, but maybe I was playing at 22000 instead of 44. The rest of the options are the same. Don't know what to tell you. :/
Hmm...
I've been playing in fullscreen mode, and that seems to help things quite a bit. I've still had it happen a couple of times, though...
Anyway, I made it through HP1 finally, and put the movie up on my Filespace. This level is 99 frames faster than in Truncated's movie, due to lots and lots of minor optimizations and one big improvement at the end.
Note that in this movie, I aim for LEVEL TIME. It's possible to save a noticeable amount of real time in HP1 by running through that last enemy (you lose 10 frames in the level itself, but avoid the no-hit bonus), but I think that best level time makes for a more impressive and entertaining video.
So, check it out! And as always, feel free to post any comments or suggestions!
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Nice. HWP1 was very good. Lower jumps, and an extra bounce at the end which I remember trying but couldn't get to work in my video.
I thought of a think which might save some time in BLW1, and it did. This movie hits the dragon 4 frames sooner than your movie:
http://133an.sytes.net/~truncated/kid-c.gmv
By jumping directly when you land you minimize the acceleration path and run a bit more at full speed.
But, for some reason I lost those 4 frames later in the level. I haven't analyzed it but I think it's possible to keep them all the way trough the level. Especially jumping the slope at the end seems to slow me down.
The level ends in a strange graphical glitch. I didn't get to keep him in the next level trough, that would have been neat. :/
Awesome!
I just recorded over your movie after you jumped over those hills and played to the end of the level. It ended up being 2 frames faster than in my movie...you get a little worse enemy placement near the end, so you can't keep the whole improvement, but it's still worth doing.
So now it's redo time...here's hoping for no desyncs!
EDIT: BTW, how did you get that glitch at the end? That was cool, wish you could keep him too!
Thanks a lot,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
It seems that the glitch is triggered sometimes when you duck just after landing from a jump, but I don't know any more of its inner workings. I've seen cyclone turn into the samurai too but never bothered looking into it because it didn't seem useful.
Another thing I did in that video, but I cannot remember where exactly, and I don't know if it makes any difference... but anyway. At one point when jumping up a slope, holding the jump button for 4 frames was not enough, and holding it for 5 frames was enough, but a little high. So I tried holding it for 4 frames, waiting 7 frames (or something like that) and then holding jump for one more frame. Holding jump obviously gives a smaller boost the higher you are to the peak of your jump. Doing this I just barely cleared the jump, and landed one frame earlier (meaning more running distance).
Hopefully we can have some more cooperation on this one. Looking forward to more previews.
Man, thanks yet again!
I just redid BLW1 in my actual movie, and saved 4 frames from my previous one. I figured out an even better way of jumping over the first two hills (don't jump until the last possible moment before you run into the hill), and that technique you just described also helped. Again, this resulted in just a little bit worse enemy placement near the end, but I'll take it!
And I'm definitely hoping for cooperation here as well. Gonna need quite a bit of help once I get into these later levels, as I haven't made it that far...
Oh, and the next update will be posted once I get through the first Elsewhere. Normally I'll do it after every stage, but Elsewhere is so simple that I might as well add it on.
EDIT: BLW2 done, after much effort, in the exact same time as before. So this is still 4 frames faster than my previous movie.
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Alright, a new movie is up on Filespace. This one goes through the first Elsewhere.
Highwater Pass 1 took forever, as I figured out new things throughout. It ended up being 16 frames faster than in my previous run.
Highwater Pass 2 is pretty simple, turned out to be 14 frames faster than in Truncated's movie. And Elsewhere is even simpler, this was improved over his movie by 4 frames.
Lemme know what you think, I am awaiting any nitpicking before I continue!
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Where did those 14 frames in HWP2 come from? As far as I can tell you lose your lead at the ghost blocks, so it has to be after that, but I don't see it.
Darn, I was going to test that thing with moving backwards before the ledge in HWP1, but you beat me to it. It seems to be faster anyway, and now I cannot test things anymore, so I'll just suggest them straightaway:
On HWP2:
- After walking trough crystal 1, have you tried walking longer and jumping higher so you hit your head before landing on crystal 2? This way maybe you can cram out some extra walking frames. (Which will then be lost on the ghost blocks, but anyway.)
- When doing the double stomp before ghost wall, you seem to be aiming at the right side of the monsters. Shouldn't you aim for the left? More of the high speed movement will be past the ghost wall in that case. You have one more hitpoints, so you can hit the drills and just miss the iron blocks.
(possible caveat: you need to land sooner to jump again, maybe...)
- After the double jump, you stand on the ground for two frames instead of the usual one before jumping again. Any reason for this? (Yes, I am being extremely picky here.)
- Crazy idea: You arrive at the smashable blocks horizontally before you land. Have you tried walking trough the hand and jumping so that you land just as you reach them? There's a risk that the hand grabs you, of course. Or that you'll just land later anyway because of lower horizontal speed.
On Elsewhere:
- Have you thought anything about diamonds? Some diamond abilities might save a lof of time somewhere. (This is a huge planning problem, really.) Since you are stuck waiting here anyway maybe it's possibe to get some without delaying the level time.
- Oh, and nice flying. I'm guessing the 4 frames comes from landing sooner.
Darn, lots of great suggestions there. I'll probably end up having to essentially redo both levels, it looks like...
One thing I can tell you: After the double jump, the reason I delay a frame before jumping again is because if you jump on the first possible frame, you keep a little bit of the momentum from the bounce. It's still slower overall than just running on the ground, so it's usually not helpful, and in this instance it hurts you for one reason: If you do it there you cannot jump over the blue monster...if you try you'll hit the ceiling and land on him.
But everything else sounds good, I'll give it a whirl...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Well, thanks once again! I improved HWP2 by 15 frames, due mostly to your "crazy idea" and double bounce method.
I was able to pick up 2 diamonds in Elsewhere, and improve it by another 4 frames via better flying. For my purposes, I am very very glad that Skycutter is faster, because this bastard is ANNOYING to control...
Now, the next stage presents an interesting quandary. There is a hidden teleporter just beyond the flag, and both take you to the start of Under Skull Mountain II. The teleporter will result in a longer level time, but probably shorter real time because you get to avoid the score screen. I'm leaning toward the flag, as they take you on the same path and the flag means shorter level time...any suggestions out there?
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
I'd go with the teleporter, myself. It's a neat little hidden room to show off, and it's boring to sit through the end-level thing anyway.
Random tip of the day: Note that you can keep the extra speed from bouncing while flying with Cyclone.
Thanks a lot for the suggestion, I ended up taking the teleporter.
And forgot Cyclone could do that! Luckily that hasn't come into play yet, but now I know...
Oh, and I just finished my second attempt at USM1, it's uploaded. What frustrates me is that I can almost but not QUITE fall through that last set of ghost blocks before they appear. Haven't figured out any ways to improve the area before then, but you guys always seem to find something. =)
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
I would have voted for the teleporter too, that's a nice little secret to show. Also, did you notice that you turned into the samurai when you ducked with the cyclone?
- After going trough the two dragons, you don't pass the corner as close as you can when you drop down. Is there a reason for this? More horizontal speed?
- After triggering the disappearing blocks, what is the jump aiming for? Lowest height which gets you over? Is is possible to land on top of one of the disappearing blocks momentarily and get falling speed instead of jumping speed afterwards, as well as lower curve (landing and starting to run earlier)?
Or maybe timing it so you run trough just as the last block disappears? (probably not beneficial.) Other than that I don't have anything good which could make you pass that ghost block.
- Afterwards you spin just before landing on the mushroom block, which loses you some speed. Did you try with having less vertical motion? You will pass the upper corner later, but maybe you can clear this block making it pay off anyway.
- At the end there's a glaring one: you land before you enter the hole, losing all vertical speed. Jump higher. The thing about hitting the ceiling might apply here too.
- At the ending there's a cool stunt you can pull: assuming you hit the same dimond block, you can duck at the very corner of the teleport to pick up the diamond while you're still standing on the teleporter.
I don't know if you've noticed yet, but ducking resets the teleport-countdown for some reason. But if you duck right as you land, this will only cost you 1-2 frames. Yay for one extra diamond. :D
I would have voted for the teleporter too, that's a nice little secret to show. Also, did you notice that you turned into the samurai when you ducked with the cyclone?
Yep indeed, I did...hopefully I can do it at a flag so that people can actually see it. *shrug*
- After going trough the two dragons, you don't pass the corner as close as you can when you drop down. Is there a reason for this? More horizontal speed?
Although it doesn't look like it, I actually do this as close as possible.
- After triggering the disappearing blocks, what is the jump aiming for? Lowest height which gets you over? Is is possible to land on top of one of the disappearing blocks momentarily and get falling speed instead of jumping speed afterwards, as well as lower curve (landing and starting to run earlier)? Or maybe timing it so you run trough just as the last block disappears? (probably not beneficial.) Other than that I don't have anything good which could make you pass that ghost block.
My jump was aiming to be as low as possible and reach the bottom, as that is faster than falling off those little ledges.
Landing on the disappearing blocks is an interesting move, I will definitely try that. The other idea doesn't work...
- Afterwards you spin just before landing on the mushroom block, which loses you some speed. Did you try with having less vertical motion? You will pass the upper corner later, but maybe you can clear this block making it pay off anyway.
Good thinking, I will test this one out too.
- At the end there's a glaring one: you land before you enter the hole, losing all vertical speed. Jump higher. The thing about hitting the ceiling might apply here too.
This really bugs me, but there seems to be nothing you can do about it. Believe me, I tried...at best you can land a few pixels away from the hole. The problem is that if you run any further before you jump here, you WILL fly right into the flag.
- At the ending there's a cool stunt you can pull: assuming you hit the same dimond block, you can duck at the very corner of the teleport to pick up the diamond while you're still standing on the teleporter. I don't know if you've noticed yet, but ducking resets the teleport-countdown for some reason. But if you duck right as you land, this will only cost you 1-2 frames. Yay for one extra diamond. :D
Neat, I probably will do that next time if it really is only 1-2 frames.
So now back to it...
Thanks,
Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
>Although it doesn't look like it, I actually do this as close as possible.
I double-checked against my video, and it looks like you're right. My bad.
>This really bugs me, but there seems to be nothing you can do about it.
Heh, I actually tried just now and succeeded. Didn't record it unfortunately, and I'm not feeling like doing it again (took a lot of tries). I was only using two buttons (meaning had to let go of run during some frames) so it shouldn't be as difficult for you. I used a savestate from your movie just after you jumped, let go of jump for a few frames and started pressing it again. This gives you a lower and wider trajectory.
Good luck with it. It's fun to see it progress, even though you're beating my video. ;)
Guys, don't worry, I am still working on this. I'm just testing out a couple different areas to take damage in USM1 and 2, to figure out which one is the best overall...
Truncated: Your idea about falling onto the platform works, but it's actually quite a bit slower than jumping down and floating onto it. As for standing on the cannon blocks, it doesn't do you any good because you can only stand on them for a couple frames.
Jumping down to the teleporter is indeed awesome, though, and turned out to be the only improvement I could make to that level. So once again, great thanks!
I'll post something when I finally get USM1 and 2 figured out here...
-Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Too bad none of the earlier things worked. Guess it's just not possible to get to the ghost blocks in time. :(
Good thing you got the direct dropdown working though, and (I hope, you didn't write it) the diamond trick on the teleporter.
>I'm just testing out a couple different areas to take damage in USM1 and 2
Hmm, this has me wondering: which path are you taking on USM2? Aren't you going straight for the teleporter to Elsewhere? It's probably a lot faster than going trough USM2, and you get one extra level. You shouldn't need to take any damage in this level.
