Topic by Truncated

Posted: 1/25/2005 5:05 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
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Location: Sweden

You do need Berzerker for Crystal Crags I (even if you take the elsewhere, I think). But you can pick him up just before the goal in CC1 if you want to. There's a hidden P-block. This is probably faster than picking him up in HotW2, especially if you're taking the teleporter there. The CC1 elsewhere can also be done by bouncing on the green slimes, or losing your current helmet to get the Kid himself, but both of those are probably slower than the hidden passage Nifboy mentioned. The samurai also works, I think. Also, I think you MUST pick up Berzerker on Stormwalk Mountain. Unless coming from the Hidden Canyon (which you most likely will be doing) gives you a different starting location. Then there's the issue of how long to keep Berzerker... there's an ultra nice shortcut on Wispering Woods 2 with him. But Shiskaboss can be done a LOT faster if you switch to Samurai or Maniaxe. There's another Berzerker in the Elsewhere from WW1, if you take that path. A lot of options, really...

Posted: 1/25/2005 5:38 PM

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nifboy

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Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375

Well, if you're taking the teleporter in CC1 you don't have quite so much luxury in picking up Berzerker there; you have to take a little side-trip at the start of the level instead of the one right before the flag.

Posted: 1/25/2005 10:07 PM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

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Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Well, the Elsewhere results in longer level time, so I just took that (get to keep Cyclone a little longer, yay!). The new movie, which stops at Windy City, is uploaded. HotW2 is just really ugly, and there is nothing more I can do about that (yes, even that flight over the hill at the beginning is the fastest way to get through that part). It looks like you can bounce-fly on a lot of these guys, but you really can't for various reasons. At least it's short... Oh yeah, there's one part there where I land from a bounce flight on the middle of a platform. That has zero effect on the time because I keep that speed until I fall. The Elsewhere is pretty self-explanatory. I discovered by accident that I can manipulate the acid drops, which comes into play at the end (before, it forced me to jump later than I wanted to). So now, Windy City. I'm going to have to bump up that block at the beginning, which uses up quite a bit of time but still less than avoiding damage in USM1. There's an upper and lower path, so this will be interesting to test... -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/26/2005 4:45 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!! While messing around in HotW2, I discovered a new glitch with Berserker that allows you to break walls and continue without losing any forward momentum. To do it, just jump when you're close to the wall (it has to be very precise, we're talking an exact amount of pixels away here); you will jump, break three blocks, then hit your head on the fourth one up if there is a fourth. I tested this out in HWP1, and it allows you to reach the cannon blocks 4 frames faster than before. ...Does anyone out there have any hex-editing advice for a total noob? If not I will redo this, as this bug will definitely come in handy in future levels and it would look strange not to use it there. -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/26/2005 10:43 PM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

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Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Well, I've had absolutely no luck with hexediting, so since it's still fairly early on I'm going to redo it. Actually, this is good because I've decided to change the direction of the run. My current route didn't really fit into anything...it wasn't the longest (Cyclone saves way too much time for that) or anything else, really. So now, I'm going to do as many levels as possible. This will probably be more interesting than what I was planning before, and the only change I'll have to make to what I did before is going to the Elsewhere in USM2. Cyclone makes that a total joke of a level, and I still remember the other stuff well, so hopefully it shouldn't take TOO much time to get back to where I was before... I'll post an update after that Elsewhere. -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/27/2005 8:44 AM

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Highness

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Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

Great to hear about the new glitch. :)

Posted: 1/27/2005 9:18 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
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Sorry to hear that the hexediting failed. Even if USM2 was good, your new goal is probably a lot easier to follow and implement. I'm glad you made that change.

Posted: 1/29/2005 7:02 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

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Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Alright, I lied. My new movie up through HWP1 is uploaded now. I wouldn't have done this, except that after much trial and error I managed to improve this by 5 frames over my old movie! Besides the bug, I also found a better way to get through the wall-climbing section. That's also the one level that desyncs a lot on me, so thank god I'm through with it now! As for next update...if I find any notable improvements to levels I'll update. If not, I'll do so after the second Elsewhere. -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/30/2005 1:58 PM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Alright, guys...I'm in a pickle. In USM1, I just figured out a way to land on the teleporter 1 frame faster than before (floating onto it). Thing is that if I do that, the diamond trick won't be possible (without wasting huge amounts of time, anyway). So, either be 3 frames faster or show off a cool trick...what do you all think? Thanks, Josh.

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/30/2005 3:53 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
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If it's a lousy 3 frames, cool trick for me. Another thing I thought of: it's possible to save about 80 frames by taking one point of damage in HWP1. I know that you're going by level time (and I think you should), I'm just telling.

Posted: 1/30/2005 11:41 PM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Alright, I personally want to keep the trick, and it sounds like that would be the right move. And yes, I knew about that in HWP1. The damage in HWP2 actually makes you faster within the level, so I prefer that, but thanks anyway! Expect a new movie up through the second Elsewhere later today...I've got some surprises in store for y'all. =) -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/31/2005 5:21 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Well, Filespace was down for awhile, so I got even more done. The new movie is up through Isle of the Lion Lord now, so check it out! I'm even more glad that I redid all of this, because almost every level was improved from before in some way. Here's a rundown... HWP1 = 5 frames faster. I already covered this. HWP2 = 3 frames. Improved double bounce before ghost blocks, and I think I got a little better luck with the hand at the end too. Elsewhere 1 = 19 frames! Watch it and you'll know...can't believe I missed this before! USM1 = 3 frames. This is entirely because the last set of ghost blocks pushes me downward a bit. USM3 = 2 frames. At that last giant pit, I keep my bounce speed during the whole flight this time. Lion Lord = Same time. Not really much to say...oh yeah, I get an extra life here instead of USM3 (because I skipped the flag in USM2, remember). USM2, what little of it I did, is self-explanatory. And the Elsewhere was kinda tricky, this was the best flight path I found; everything else forced you to stop and wait for Cyclone to rise at some point. With this way you move forward the entire level, which looks a lot better IMO. So, hope you all like it, and as always feel free to comment! -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/31/2005 8:06 AM

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Truncated

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Joined: 4/17/2004
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This video had the same abrupt stop as you touched the last flag. Shame on you. >:P Elsewhere thinking: "Why is he moving backw... oh, you can do that?" Rake up another blow for the short version there. The danger of trusting a previous moviemaker shows it ugly face again. Nice about all the other improvements, but please don't wear you out by redoing to too many times. There's another 70 levels to go you know... :D

Posted: 1/31/2005 10:55 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

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Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Gah, forgot about that flag thing! Sorry, won't do it again. =P And don't worry, I only did all this because of that bug, everything else was unexpected. Don't see any other reason to touch those early levels now... Oh, just remembered something you need to add to the tricks page (at least, I don't see it): Falling onto enemies gives you more of a boost than jumping on them (at least with "normal" characters and Micromax). This is very noticeable in Hills of the Warrior I. -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 1/31/2005 12:49 PM

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Truncated

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Joined: 4/17/2004
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I'm not sure... the logical thing (from a programmer's perspective) is to give the same boost every time. Maybe the total speed is higher since your previous speed was higher? I will add a note about it anyway, together with the berzerker findings.

Posted: 1/31/2005 8:04 PM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Nah, it's not just total speed, the bounce is faster too. Look at somewhere like the end of USM3, where I jump on an enemy, and compare it to either HotW stage. My suspicion is that the bounce adds the same amount of velocity, and the faster falling speed thus makes the bounce faster. -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 2/1/2005 12:41 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
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>My suspicion is that the bounce adds the same amount of velocity, and the faster falling speed thus makes the bounce faster. Well... it seems we are talking past each other, because this is the same thing I was trying to say.

Posted: 2/2/2005 4:35 AM

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Truncated

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I noticed something else: the score countdown is not linear. After some amount of points, the game switches from 40 points per frame to 160. After a while more to 640. If you can choose, it might be better to get no hits bonus at the levels where you get a lot of points for other stuff, because then the added time in counting becomes very short. Assuming you care about real time and not level time, that is. I might take this into consideration if/when I decide to update my run. I'm not sure. I haven't though of a place it would have an effect yet.

Posted: 2/2/2005 4:37 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Alright, HotW1 is about to break me. No matter what I do, it's one frame slower than in the old movie. I did figure out how to manipulate luck so that I can crawl under that cannon block...but that's slower anyway, it turns out; since you have little time to accelerate before the drop ahead, you move forward more slowly while falling and thus lose time while flying to the top of the hill. The problem is that I HAVE to make a few different movements from the last movie in order to cross one-block gaps at the beginning. That's where I lose that 1 frame, and there doesn't seem to be a way to get it back... Should I just give up and move on with my loss? -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 2/2/2005 4:58 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
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Hm, that's strange. Falling into pits should depend on character location, and that's highly deterministic. Did you do everything the _exact_ same way? Did you bounce on any enemies before this gap? That could be it, because some enemies behave differently depending on which frame the level is started. You could try hexediting in the old run and see if it still falls into the pit. Anyway, 1 frame is nothing to cry about. Random factors might make the level impossible to finish as fast as some other time with other random variables.

Posted: 2/2/2005 5:31 AM

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nifboy

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Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375

Eh. It's a frame. It's not like you haven't already found a couple dozen frames to cut off from the previous version.

Posted: 2/2/2005 6:04 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

It's that series of three one-block gaps at the very beginning of the level. I had to fly a tad differently from before in order to be able to run across all three of them. Flying in general is kinda random like this...note that my flying in USM1 is a little bit different from the old movie; that wasn't intentional, but what I had to do. Same kinda deal here. Seems like I should just get it over with and move on, it looks like... -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 2/3/2005 6:52 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

Well, my slower HotW1 looks virtually no different from before, so no biggie. I'm finally back to where I was before, movie is up as always. HotW2 is 1 frame faster through some better movements, and Elsewhere is 2 frames faster. Actually, HotW2 could have been 2 frames faster, but I needed to land on the teleporter 1 frame later than optimal; this is needed to manipulate the acid drops at the beginning of Elsewhere. Now, FINALLY, it'll be time for Windy City. Need to test the upper and lower path there... -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice

Posted: 2/3/2005 10:04 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
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Hmm, there was a video up to E3 in the previuos version too? I totally missed that. Okay, so some comments: In HotW2, it's possible to hit more enemies and keep the speed longer. Here is a video which knocks off 40:ish frames: http://133an.sytes.net/~truncated/KC_hotw2_bouncemore.gmv lands on teleporter 44:28, yours landed 45:06 I was forced to press left for two frames to hit the second dragon. Maybe it's possible to do the previous dragon different so that isn't necessary. It's not optimized, I didn't bother testing a lot of different frames. There should be another 10 to get in there. I had almost forgotten how much I hated flying with Cyclone. :) The beginning also looks a bit strange, but i haven't tested anything there. I tried starting with an air jump in E3 to keep downward speed, but failed. Maybe you will have more luck with more buttons? Another thing, when do you intend to switch to another character, and which one? The samurai in E3 is offpath but has a good shortcut there, plus you'll get new hitpoints which you can use to run trough the first tank in Windy City, instead of jumping trough the blocks above. (Possible bonus in E3 if you take the samurai: one diamond, and enemies to bounce on) Cyclone probably doesn't help a lot in WC, but he might in Sinister Sewers. Lots of open air and easily bounced enemies. In that case switching directly to berzerker in CC1 is probably better.

Posted: 2/3/2005 10:58 AM

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Josh_the_FunkDOC

Former player

Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH

...Wow. *smacks self in forehead* Thanks a ton for that, I figured something had to be up with that level as ugly as it looked. The beginning is weird, but the fastest thing I found. And I tested a lot...that was actually where I improved over the previous movie. And I think I mentioned this one earlier...getting the samurai in E3 wastes a TON of time, easily more than that hit in Windy City saves. Keeping Cyclone until CC1 is the plan, it seems... I tried air jumping too, it just won't work as you'll hit your head on the ceiling too soon no matter what. =/ Looking a bit ahead, would samurai or maniaxe be better against the boss? I really really want to fit maniaxe into the run somewhere, and it seems that this could be the place. You say there's a Berserker helmet in the Elsewhere after that level, so that won't be an issue... -Josh

but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice