Ok, ok, you won :)
I guess I was paying too much attention to the speed issue and admit that a 2P movie of this colourful game pushing its explosive potential to the limit can be quite entertaining^^
Actually, I think I've rendered that point moot. I've found a way to beat bosses faster than Jackic does. The word Defeated now appears on frame 2313. All those frames were gained in the boss fight. Continuing to Bravoo Man.
Question: What weapon do you think Player 1 should have when fighting seven force? Player 2 is going to keep the flame-chaser because I plan on writing a little more and possibly drawing pictures. I'm at the beginning of the level right now. So far, I've switched the lightning saber for flame-force in the hopes that the explosions it causes will make the level more entertaining. Any suggestions besides that are welcome.
Question: What weapon do you think Player 1 should have when fighting seven force?
The one that does the most damage per frame, I suppose. Blue already has a good enough weapon that would be used if hitting Seven Force with Red's isn't too convenient, so the only other thing to go with is pure damage.
bkDJ wrote:
Is there any risk of explosions causing lag frames that waste time?
Yes, and that should be kept in mind as well.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It's not bad so far. The biggest cause of lag in this game is having both players firing their weapons at once, especially if those weapons require a lot of processing power, like flame chaser and force-force. Besides that, I don't think I've seen any at all, even when the screen is filled with enemies and explosions. There are certain weapons that can be used at the same time, and not cause lag, so I've been switching player 2 to less porcessor intensive weapons when I don't need it, and back to the flame chaser for when it's important to have a strong attack. Also, fire-force fires slow enough that you really only have one projectile (somtimes two) on the screen at any time. In my movie so far, I'm heading down the mine shaft, and there have been two lag frames in that entire time. I did get the train in one pass, though, which I'm proud of since the guy on the right doesn't even become vulnerable until he's offscreen.
I just saw your WIP and I want to say it's very entertaining! I like how red and blue just can't stop throwing each other. My only other suggestion for entertainment is maybe some leapfrogging, it would have been especially nice to see some during the auto-scrolling slope section.
However, there is one very big flaw in your run. You forgot to skip boss text. Hold B the moment the boss text appears (not before like you did), and you'll scroll through the boss text much faster. I know it will be annoying to redo part of your run, but I don't want you to miss out on something so simple (like Jackic did in his run).
During the mine cart stage would be a great time to chase red around with the flame chaser. You will have a ton of free time, and you can do the mid-air levitation trick to loop around the flame.
BTW, maybe you'll get some tips from my speed run. I know it's old (almost 2 years now), but maybe you will discover something new. And it's a good excuse to whore myself :P
http://speeddemosarchive.com/GunstarHeroes.html
Dammit! I was trying to skip boss text there. If you notice I was making sure that B was held on at least one of the players on all frames when the text was scrolling. I didn't know you had to wait for it to appear.
I was thinking about improving the slope on my run. It was the part I was least comfortable with. Level 2 has been incredibly hard for me, though. Hopefully I'll be able to just paste my progress so far on the end of Level 1. I'd hate to have to do all I've done over again.
I've seen your run. It's pretty good, I think. If you have any suggestions for things you want or improvements, feel free to state them.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Hey, at least you found out about the text speed now, instead of down the line whe you're 25 minutes committed. We've all had to start (nearly) over at one point or another in one of our runs, and just from experience, I've found the second time around gets much easier. Good luck with it, and I'm looking forward to seeing another WIP.
Looks like level 2 is desyncing for me, which means I'll have to start over. However, there is good news. I noticed where I ended level 1, and checked to see. Right now, I am ahead of Jackic's run by about 100 frames, give or take 20. That's not going to last though. Jackic only fought 5 forms of 7-Force. I'm going to have to take down all seven. It's a good feeling, nevertheless.
A WIP.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4682/arkiandruski-gunstar.gmv
However, since I kind of like some of the things that happened in my old level two, I'll let you see how far I got before I had to start over.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4683/arkiandruski-lvl2-test.gmv
Naturally level 1 is the old level 1. Here's a savestate for the beginning of level 2.
http://www.savefile.com/files/588860
If you can't see what they're doing at the end, try slowing it down. Here's a hint: it's my tribute to classic gaming.
BTW: Can someone tell me what's happening at the second red guy in my new run because I'm not sure exactly and I'd like to repeat it for when I meet guys like him in the future.
I watched your new WIP and it's great. I especially liked how you took my suggestion for the slope :)
I think what killed the red guy so quickly was that you threw your partner into him.
I think you could make the mine cart stage more entertaining. Here are some suggestions:
-Let some of the enemies live (specifically, the bomb layers) and just barely dodge their shots, or weave in between the bombs.
-The flame chaser tag suggestion I had earlier (Yes, I really want you to do this). Though I will admit this would probably be more entertaining in another stage.
-Some more writing and/or intricate patterns. Since the other guy has the flame+force, you can use him to dot the i's.
-Random midair floating trickery. It's really hard to do the midair float and still shoot enemies down on a console, so I think this would be entertaining.
Thanks. I figured it was because of throwing my partner, but there are a few other weird things about it, like hitting on the first frame makes it take longer. Also, I want to know what caused him to cancel one of his animations.
I'm glad you like the the slope. I was hoping that's what you meant by "leapfrogging"
As for your suggestions for level 2
mikwuyma wrote:
-Let some of the enemies live (specifically, the bomb layers) and just barely dodge their shots, or weave in between the bombs.
Agreed. Killing lots of enemies isn't much fun if you never see them. I'll see if I can squeeze between those bombs. I'm not sure if it's possible.
mikwuyma wrote:
-The flame chaser tag suggestion I had earlier (Yes, I really want you to do this). Though I will admit this would probably be more entertaining in another stage.
I did a little of this in level 1 before the Pink fight. I think I'm going to pass on flame chaser tag in this stage, though. It will come back for Orange, though.
mikwuyma wrote:
-Some more writing and/or intricate patterns. Since the other guy has the flame+force, you can use him to dot the i's.
I have plans for a few more things to write (and possibly draw). If you look closely, I used flame-force to add the dot to an exclamation point at one part of the level.
mikwuyma wrote:
-Random midair floating trickery. It's really hard to do the midair float and still shoot enemies down on a console, so I think this would be entertaining.
I guess you mean more than what Blue's doing in the downward shaft. I'll try to do this.
I'm really looking forward to this. Best of luck/skill!
If you're looking for a low-processing-power weapon to play around with, consider double Lightning. I'm no hacking expert, but it seems intuitive that it would be one of the cheapest (maybe only second to lightning+fire) -- goes in a straight line, no collision detection with walls/etc.
Thanks to the sprite limitations with two players, there are gaps in the double-lightning beam. Consider having the other player hop through them?
Also, I haven't watched the WIPs provided, but do you make use of the guard technique (press and hold B and C at the same time while standing on the ground)? It would be a great way to show one character's fear/annoyance of the other player's antics.
Finally, when you make use of Chaser+Lightning (you are going to use all ten combinations, right?) use both the box-shot (aim straight up/down/left/right when you press B) and the diamond-shot (aim in a diagonal direction when you press B; looks cooler, in my opinion). Take advantage of the fact that the shooter can make all kinds of crazy aiming motions while the weapon auto-tracks.
In fact, make a list of all the funny moves you can do in this game, and plan where you're going to use them all. You don't want to forget one of them.
I know this is a while away, but for Black's stage, I was wondering if all 3's is the best way to go. The boss fights that I don't like are the Vortex Base and the Gondola, which seem to take way too much time in Jackic's run, and I was wondering if switching those fights for shorter ones might make up for the time needed to throw the dice more.
My idea for a route:
3-Timeron - Should be able to kill him before the timer runs out
3- Melon Bread - Easy and short
1- Destroy the tank - can be done very quickly
3- Item room - possible weapon switch
3- Curry and Rice - I have a suspicion I might be able to make this fight quick. The fact that he falls down is worrysome, but possibly using the technique of throwing my partner will help cancel it out.
3- another item room
2- Black
Comments?
I just had time to watch your WIP, and I'm sorry for ever having doubted the 2-player-run :)
I think 20 damage per second? That's five times stronger than every other attack. Keep up the good work.
About the dice palace:
I hope I don't say anything wrong again, but whenever I played this game in 2-player mode, each player rolled the dice for himself and fought his fight alone. Actually the game normally wants red and blue to roll alternatively, but luckily, iirc it is allowed that one player only fights always. However, both player entering a fight is not possible.
Mike Uyama from SDA mentioned a dice throwing glitch, possibly saving some time (but I don't know it; I think it's kind of dropping - not throwing the dice). Perhaps you want to check it: http://speeddemosarchive.com/GunstarHeroes.html
Unfortunately, I don't know, if not throwing 3 all the time is faster. Sorry
EDIT: Hm, apprently, it IS possible to enter a challenge with both players as stated in the gamefaqs-forum:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=937250&topic=34015614
But I couldn't find any information on how to achieve this.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4916/arkiandruski-gunstar-lvl2-wip.gmv
I'm just going to say right now I hate Green's level. I posting a WIP, but really eveything after the second weapon switch is going to be redone. I thought it was weird that bosses only take damage every other frame. I also thought it was strange that my boss fights were going slower than Mike's speedrun even though I was basically attacking the bosses non-stop with a high powered weapon. It turns out that each player damages enemies every other frame and the registered damage alternates. I bet you if this were a one player game, the damage would happen every frame. Anyway, that means attacking the boss with both players will be twice as fast, considering, I can't throw in this level nor hit the boss with any body attacks. This of course changes my strategy a bit.
Let's see:
Weapons I know cause 4 damage every other frame:
force + force
fire + chaser
fire + lightning
chaser
I actually have a few viable options for player 1's weapon.
I can keep the force + force. It's a strong fast weapon, good for taking out multiple opponents, but can't be used at the same time as fire + chaser because of the lag. (actually fire+chaser sometimes causes lag all by itself) However, it can be used to dot i's when I'm writing, although it goes by so fast you barely see it.
I can switch for lightning + chaser. The manipulation to get a chaser out of the bird isn't that hard. i know how to do it. Lightning +chaser is a new weapon, and gives me a lot of options to switch to another new weapon in the next stage (double lightning, star chaser, force chaser, and lighning chaser are the only weapons I haven't used yet). If I use this, though, both gunners will be using chaser for most of the boss fight. (Might not be that bad. Chaser doesn't require that much processing power, so lag will be less of a problem)
I can also get force + chaser. This will allow me to dot my i's still (although it will still probably go by too fast) lag might be a problem with this one, but for the bosses, I'll be using the chaser part anyway because force + chaser has pretty much no strength.
Either way, it's still going to be another long hard trek through the last part of the level.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Watched it, and I can officially say holy crap. That was an enjoyable movie, but I can definitely see what you mean by the boss fight. I remember the published movie just plowing through those guys, whereas yours dragged a bit, but if you're redoing it I have no doubts you'll turn it into a total trashing. Keep up the good work!
Hey, you know those three train cars with the enemies in them that you have to destroy to advance? Anyways, I'm trying to get the third one in one pass, which would take quite a bit of time off the level. I have a suspicion it might be just barely possible. I'm not having any luck, though. This is the best I've gotten it. Is there anything I'm missing? Is it possible to kill those two the few frames faster you need to prevent the train from going to the right? I've run out of ideas.
Well, after a long marathon session spread out over four days, I have my first run through seven force. I'm going to take a short break to work on school work and such and to see your comments about my chosen strategies and how I can squeeze more frames out of it.
wip
