A great discovery again, which will definitely save more time in the end, even for the detour it requires to get. Very nice job, Drew!
It's nice to see, how bad Redesign got once again broken in the last week. Now I believe a sub 1-hour run is a possibly realistic thing to get, if doing everything 100% frame perfect. :-)
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
After watching Drewseph's TAS, I have a frothing demand as to how in the world he defeated Ridley and Draygon so fast. Do bombs do 100 times the damage to bosses or something?
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
After watching Drewseph's TAS, I have a frothing demand as to how in the world he defeated Ridley and Draygon so fast. Do bombs do 100 times the damage to bosses or something?
Each boss has weak points. For Phantoon it's a direct super jump hit, for Draygon it's bombs, for Ridley it's a pseudo-screw attack. Not sure about Kraid.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Kraids Weakness is Supermissiles.
Also with reccomendation and Permission from saturn, I will continue his TAS from where he left off at Walljump. With complete focus on optimization I plan to match his skill on every room as I have learned a great deal from TASing the first run.
After new shortcuts and techniques being discovered in the last week, it has been determined that the final time goal is Sub-Hour.... thats one terrible MONSTER of a goal. Thank you Saturn and Esspecially Moozooh for helping calculate time savers!
Actually, I'd recommend keeping only the Ceres part of Saturn's TAS. The rest is improvable.
But of course! 10 frames improvement till Walljump Boots may be possible. Good luck though, to get all the 5 Missile refills back of the Kago in the semi last Crateria room, without slowing down. :-)
Here are some short videos I produced in the last month, some while helping Drew with his run, some while trying to do something new, or just while fooling around.
Several new timesavers made possible with the early HJ: one, two.
Some short charge opportunities not featured in Drew's beta-TAS: uno, dos.
Yes, it is possible to cut off up to 113 pixels (7 full tiles) from the usual distance by not pressing dash on frames 1—24, 26, 51, 71 and 72. Yes, that's strange. Yes, I thoroughly tested it myself, and it was the best combination I managed to get. Yes, the 4th sentence starting with a "yes".
Speed booster inertia cancelling trick, similar in its idea to Super Metroid's stop-on-a-dime: eins, zwei. Both smvs start from the same spot, the difference is to be compared only with frame advance.
A funny graphic glitch. Entirely useless.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Several new timesavers made possible with the early HJ: one, two.
woah.. you want to get the boots that early? If you're going to get them before visiting red brinstar, you'll need to aquire more missiles than usual, you'll need to get the super missile somewhere else (probably even spore spawn), and it's probably faster to enter red brinstar the usual way if you're taking the detour.
That doesn't only forfeit a nice shortcut, it's probably also slower.
otherwise, nice demos!
Thanks, Tub. On the detour: Saturn has made a demo (at about the same time I made mine, the "Springball!") showing that the detour itself is slightly more than two minutes long, and with all the opportunities the HJ gives, this amount of time will most certainly be saved even before coming back to Brinstar (not to mention that the Charge beam and Spore Spawn's supers are to be taken in any case). Springball has amazing mobility even without mockballing, so it's going to save tons of time in pipes and tunnels, and all the rooms without too much room for straight running.
We're aiming for sub-hour now.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
he skipped one quick super missile there, the one next to the crateria elevator. any reasons for that?
the demo shows the detour being around 155 seconds real-time. If you're confident that you can save that much time in red brinstar, go ahead. I'm still sceptical, but I'll see :)
Did you already time the alternative route of just entering red brinstar the usual way?
I didn't say that much time is going to be saved in red Brinstar exclusively. Look, if we take Drewseph's route, there are only two points when taking the HJ boots wouldn't result in a huge and ugly detour. Those two points are: 1) right after bombs, before heading to Norfair (as seen in the demo); 2) after coming back from Norfair, on the way to the Dachora gate. In the second case, the detour is alot shorter, but the time saved in red Brinstar and Norfair with HJ would make up for it.
Plus, even if it isn't really faster, it looks much, MUCH better like that. And I think that sacrificing ~20 minutes of a lot more creative way of travelling for just a few seconds on the timer isn't really the best choice.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
he skipped one quick super missile there, the one next to the crateria elevator. any reasons for that?
Only reason I didn't pick it up was because it was a small 1-pack Super. However if Drew is forced to take another 1-pack one later, this might be worth it, so he could skip the one with the bigger detour.
Tub wrote:
the demo shows the detour being around 155 seconds real-time. If you're confident that you can save that much time in red brinstar, go ahead. I'm still sceptical, but I'll see :)
We aim for a sub-hour ingame time, so you have to subtract all the door transitions and item pickup-screens of this time to get the real time loss in the game. Also note that this movie was not optimized very well (see moozooh's Springball alternative in the spike room, which I didn't bother to test before) , so I'm sure you could save even more time on this detour.
Tub wrote:
Did you already time the alternative route of just entering red brinstar the usual way?
We carefully checked for possible slowdowns in all rooms till the return to Brinstar if not having HJ Boots. The estimate time saver of having them early till this return is at least 1 min, but possibly even more. So it will almost sure make up, and even save more time in the end.
EDIT:
moozooh wrote:
Here are some short videos I produced in the last month, some while helping Drew with his run, some while trying to do something new, or just while fooling around.
Several new timesavers made possible with the early HJ: one ...
Doing a midair-morph Springball will cause a bug which won't let you controll the high of the spring ball jumps. Even if you release the jump button, Samus will still jump at max high in this case. This was the reason moozooh hit the spikes at the top, which slows down the progress a bit. If you make a mockball move first and then beginn to springball, you can avoid this jumping-bug and controll the jump-high. Also the mockball speed will slightly (in this case) increase Samus' speed which is twice as good.
Here the demo of it, which is 140 frames faster after coming out of the pipe right above the Spike-Super Missile.
indeed, I could grab that 1 missile pack, When I head toward the back of the Dachora cage to open the first gate, I make a painful detour to get a 2 supermissile pack and a 2 missile pack, of course with this 1 x supermissile pack, I might be able to simply skip this detrour, which in total is probabll more than 30 seconds, since I have to powerbomb, wait for the bottom gate to open, charge a spark and diagonally spark through the barricade.
GOOD CALL TUB!!
In all it will only cost me another 2 seconds to grab an extra 2 supermissile refills from an enemy, 2 seconds vs 30 seconds..... SWEET
If you make a mockball move first and then beginn to springball, you can avoid this jumping-bug and controll the jump-high. Also the mockball speed will slightly (in this case) increase Samus' speed which is twice as good.
Here the demo of it, which is 140 frames faster after coming out of the pipe right above the Spike-Super Missile.
Awesome. Really really really awesome! Can't wait for getting the HJ. :D
And yeah, since Drewseph and I decided to join our forces and work on the improvement together aiming for sub-hour time, I went ahead and improved the first part of Ceres station by 54 frames (which is also 24 frames faster than Saturn's WIP, yay). I promise that the new run will pwn everything badly. :)
Stay tuned.
EDIT: Updated the URL above, now the smv completes all the escape except for the last room, because I don't want to spend another two hours figuring out how to save myself from losing more frames in it right now. By the way, it's still 27 frames faster than Saturn, though I think I'll have to waste 1-2 more frames on a better starting jump, or something like that. Moreover, I believe this WIP will only be useful for Saturn himself, and I'm somehow certain he'll miss the fact of its existence unless I post it separately, which I don't want to do now, etc., it's 9 AM, I want to sleep, bye.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It seems that this is game is going to have an awesome TAS (:
Here is a movie of Crystal Flashing Mother Brain; I don't know why I didn't work for you, Drew, I have no problems doing it....
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2709/CF_MB.smv
Some Notes:
-You need to get hit one time before you can shoot diagonally or move after you get the Hyper beam
-I get "infinite" Super Missiles in the movie. I have been able to get "infinite" Missiles;Supers; PBs, Missiles & Super and Super & Power Bombs. It seems that if you refill your energy almost all the way, then you'll get "infinite" PBs and if you refill only very few of your energy, then you'll get "infinite" Missiles etc.
-Getting hit by the Hyper beam a second time will get rid of this "infinite" ammo. I therefore haven't been able to get into the escape with "infinite" Super + PBs...
-I don't know if there is any possibility of getting "infinite" Missiles, Supers & PBs. If there is though, then it might be possible to glitch through the celing via Crystal Flashing in the very first room in the escape and skip some rooms there this way. Don't forget that Crystal Flashing takes away your "Free Shinespark" though.
I don't know if this will end up being faster at all though with all these other items you would need to get ^^;
This might be known (it's not all that hard to find), but turning around in water and spin Jumping afterwards will send Samus further horizontally (<- that is without Gravity Suit). [I only watched Drewseph's TAS up to the last Chozo statue as the movie desynched there and I didn't bother to download the .avi yet, so I can't tell whether this is already done in there]
Saturn and I have tested and concluded that the aditional time it takes to kill MB with just charged plasma, plus the detour time it takes to get 8 powerbomb expansions, will be more than the 15
seconds that the shine spark will save. nearly 1.5 min is wasted if this were to be done.
Moreover, I believe this WIP will only be useful for Saturn himself, and I'm somehow certain he'll miss the fact of its existence unless I post it separately,
You're wrong! ;-)
The WIP looks very good so far, only possible mistake you did is to take the last knockback too high, so you waste some frames until landing. I'm not sure if this slowed you down though, as it seems you still go through the door just in the moment it fully opened.
Saturn and I have tested and concluded that the aditional time it takes to kill MB with just charged plasma, plus the detour time it takes to get 8 powerbomb expansions, will be more than the 15
seconds that the shine spark will save. nearly 1.5 min is wasted if this were to be done.
If it's possible to get a second crystal flash and skip some of the escape, then would it work?
If not, i guess that trick will have to wait for the full% version.
full% will probably be very boring to watch, according to that AVI version of the any% run that I found in this thread awhile back, which seemed like it took beyond forever. Hopefully all of the improvements will make it better to watch =)
