Speaking of pizza ...
You are stranded on a desert island with a Domino's Pizza that can only make pizzas with two toppings. What are the two toppings?
For me it's pepperoni and breakfast bacon.
I'd probably go with some kind of mexican-inspired pizza. Or maybe just kebab and kebab sauce :)
300 speed, 13 entertainment. Make the math. Which one is the prevalent main objective of these runs?
Entertainment, not speed.
You are just starting to be ridiculous.
It's like that one guy who adamantly claimed that "timeattack" and "time attack" are two different things (I don't even remember which one was supposed to be what).
Superplay = Entertaining ("godlike") game usage = Not necessarily speedy
Speedrun = Speedy game usage = Not necessarily entertaining
Not all movies here aim for speed, and speedy boring movies will not be accepted.
Therefore:
Entertainment/art: Main goal
Speed: Second goal
TAS should thus mean Tool Assisted SUPERPLAY SUPERPLAY SUPERPLAY
That's unfortunately backronyming.
Backronyming is not necessary here, because the acronym TAS was formed from the following words: tool-assisted speedrun.
Please don't try to rewrite the history.
I refer to: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84162#84162
That's unfortunately backronyming.
Backronyming is not necessary here, because the acronym TAS was formed from the following words: tool-assisted speedrun.
Please don't try to rewrite the history.
I refer to: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84162#84162
Okay, I didn't mean it like that. I meant "I think that TAS from now on is supposed to mean...", not "I've dicovered that the creator of the term "TAS" did not mean speedrun when "TAS" was created. Later discoveries have shown that he actually meant...".
That's just a patently false statement.
Can you mention even ONE movie which does *not* aim for speed? Even one?
All movies in this site, every single one of them, aims for speed. In a few cases maximum possible speed may have been sacrificed a bit (ie some frames, in one case even perhaps some seconds) for entertainment, but speed is still a goal. Even the fixed-speed scroller gradius videos aim for speed wherever they can, ie. in the boss fights.
There are movies where some constraints have been put for entertainment, but still speed is the main goal. Heck, there was even a "fun run" of SMB where pressing the B button was prohibited. However, the goal of this run was still how *fast* the game can be completed without the B button. Even with the constraints speed is still the goal.
Speed is the sole major judging category when accepting submissions. The rule is not rigid and in a few cases simply beating an existing run by some frames is not seen enough to obsolete it, but speed is still the major factor in the run. A run which is significantly slower than the existing one would certainly not obsolete it.
If speed was not the main goal in these runs, why are the runners always trying to find new faster routes, new glitches to exploit for speed, even programming tools to squeeze even the last possible frame? Heck, why is there a frame counter in many emulators if speed was not a goal? If speed wasn't a goal then the frame count would be irrelevant.
*All* videos aim for speed. In most of them it's the only deciding factor. In a few cases some entertainment issue may kick in, but speed is still a goal nevertheless.
"Not all movies here aim for speed" is just as false as it gets.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bisqwit wrote:
Swedishmartin wrote:
TAS should thus mean
That's unfortunately backronyming.
Backronyming is not necessary here, because the acronym TAS was formed from the following words: tool-assisted speedrun.
Please don't try to rewrite the history.
I refer to: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84162#84162
TAS is already a retronym, too.
EDIT: wait, no it isn't. I got the 'nyms messed up. "Unassisted speedrun" is a retronym. :)
That's just a patently false statement.
Can you mention even ONE movie which does *not* aim for speed? Even one?
All movies in this site, every single blah blah blah yada yada yada of them it's the only deciding factor. In a few cases some entertainment issue may kick in, but speed is still a goal nevertheless.
"Not all movies here aim for speed" is just as false as it gets.
Addition: Not all movies aim for speed, but most do. And as I said earlier: boring speedy movies will not be accepted, but interesting slower (And with that I don't mean like a minute or two but maybe 10 seconds) ones will. Therefore I think we should be calling these runs/playthroughs "superplays". K?
Edit yeah: Gradius, B-less SMB run. They are few, but they exist just as much as that pimple on your nose.
Can you mention even ONE movie which does *not* aim for speed? Even one?
Tecmo Bowl.
You lose!
(addendium*:
Tetrisphere; it doesn't aim for the fastest time, mostly since it delays the game's ending by about 27 seconds or something
Air; the description even says that it doesn't aim for the fastest time, but shows off the game's strangeness
)
* not correct.
Can you mention even ONE movie which does *not* aim for speed? Even one?
Tecmo Bowl.
You lose!
I actually thought about Tecmo Bowl much earlier, but I refused to directly answer.
Tecmo Bowl is the tool-assisted anti-speedrun of this site. I'm trying to think about how an author would ever use any kind of speed in this game.
Wow! 1 movie that doesn't have speed as its goal! I'm baffled. There was one.
What does it make? 0.3% of all movies?
Yeah, you are right. Since 0.3% of all movies do have a speed as a goal, using the term "speed" would be *really* confusing.
Warp, do you know why we make these movies? Because we want to entertain people.
Then, why is speed our goal? Because speed usually provides great entertainment.
So, we aim to entertain people with these "superdupermegaYay!-movies".
Entertainment is our primary goal, not speed. Can you do the math here or do you need some assistance?
Even better : If people are bored watching the TAS, speed makes less boringness. I remember Donamerdragon's GB Zelda Link's Awakening glitched in around 5 mins, he said : "Completing the game so fast the viewer doesn't have time to be bored." or something like that.
This debate is getting boring to me so I'm going to try to get this topic back on track.
Here's the current topic in #nesvideos: "[S]NES/TASvideos! [This space for rent]"
I'd like to have it changed to something involving me in the space-for-rent space. I'm not sure exactly what, but I'm sure we can figure something out. I'll pay two European Moon Sheckles for 2 weeks of renting.
Let me know, and also, suggestions welcome of course.
Warp, do you know why we make these movies? Because we want to entertain people.
Then, why is speed our goal? Because speed usually provides great entertainment.
Then what is so wrong in using the term "speed"?
There are an endless amount of different forms of entertainment. In these videos speed is usually the main or at least a goal. It's the one single tangible thing (besides tool-assistance) that is common to all the videos.
Why do you think people make regular (ie. non-assisted) speedruns? For educative purposes? School assignments? Research projects? Academic publications? No: It's for entertainment too. Entertainment is also basically the only driving force in speedruns. Is it wrong for them to call the videos "speedruns" because they are entertainment? Of course not. That would be a rather silly idea. Why would that be wrong?
Now, that is what I don't understand about this mindless objection about the term "speed". What is so wrong with it? It's not misleading because it is the goal in basically all the videos in the exact same way as it is in regular speedruns.
Some people talk as if doing something for entertainment would somehow be mutually exclusive with doing something for speed. What else could these videos be besides entertainment? Entertainment is quite a self-evident feature of the videos. I don't see why there is a need to emphasize that. What else could they be? Could someone get confused and think that these videos are *not* for entertainment? What else could they think?
The way we achieve this entertainment is by tool-assisted speed, and that's exactly what the term TAS is implying.
Some people object to using the word "speed" because it can be confused with what regular speedruns do. They say something like "we don't aim for speed but for entertainment". That's quite silly. That would mean that regular speedrunners do not aim for entertainment (because they use the word "speed"). If regular speedrunners aim for entertainment too, wouldn't it also be wrong for them to use the term "speed" then?
These videos are, after all, speedruns. They are a special kind of speedrun, but they are speedruns. What's wrong with that?
Entertainment is our primary goal, not speed.
That sentence is just silly. It implies that "entertainment" and "speed" are mutually exclusive terms of equal value as concepts. Those two terms are in no way mutually exclusive and at a very different conceptual level. Of course we aim for entertainment. What else could we be aiming for? It would be silly to make these movies in the first place if nobody enjoyed them.
However, what is the primary goal to achieve this entertainment? Completing games as fast as possible. IOW making speedruns.
If speed was not our primary goal, why are people developing tools to make faster runs? Why are there book-length discussions about how to make runs faster (just read for example the thread about the Zelda run)? Why is the number of frames published alongside the movies? Why in the vast majority of cases faster runs obsolete slower ones?
Saying that "a movie was rejected because it was not entertaining enough" is quite vague. What was the *specific* reason why it was rejected? Was it too slow? Was the playing sloppy? Is the game boring and not suitable for speedrunning? Is the game too repetitive? There are tons of different concrete things for judging a movie, but the one thing which is most prevalent is speed.
I think that you, too, are confusing the concept of "main goal" with the concept of "only goal". Nobody has said that speed is the only goal in the videos. However, it is the main overall goal in them. There may be a few exceptions, but in average speed is the one single main objective.
Since speed is the main or at least an important goal in at least 99.68% of the published videos, why is it wrong to use the word "speed" to describe them? Why do you hate that word so much?
I personally have no problem with "tool-assisted speedrun". The movies we make are related to speedruns. Although speed and entertainment aren't a perfect correlation, it is still a very strong one.
However when I made my Smash TV run, I called it a Superplay, because speedrun did sound a bit strange, since I wasn't doing for absolute speed, even though the run was still aiming to be very fast (since that was the main source of entertainment).
Edit: I also think most people are just posting to be silly by this point :)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
