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Posted: 3/26/2007 12:51 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Pokemon Sapphire TAS done up to Flannery defeated: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4645/0898%20-%20Pokemon%20-%20Sapphire%20Version%20%28U%29.vbm I got rid of Mud-Slap, because it is taking up space. I never used Mud-Slap. The paralysis at the end is intentional. If anyone was wondering about IVs, Marshtomp's Attack IV is 30 and its Special Attack IV is 31, and its nature is Naughty (raises Attack and lowers Special Defense). How was I so lucky, I don't know. Anyway, Marshtomp is better off as a physical attacker, which is why I chose the Attack boost. This run is about 4 minutes faster than the published run at this point.
Posted: 3/26/2007 1:40 AM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
Sometimes I can't help but wonder if using Pokemon Ruby would be faster. After all, the Teams' bases have different layouts and there's Groudon instead of Kyogre.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 3/26/2007 2:29 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Well, the main change, apart from the legendary, is the Pokemon change of some trainers from Carvanha/Sharpedo to Numel/Camerupt. While Numel/Camerupt is dead to Water, Carvanha/Sharpedo makes up for that with awfully poor defense (both stats). It does have the Rough Skin ability, which causes 1/16 Max HP damage to the opponent if the opponent hits with a contact move. 1/16 Max HP is nothing; the real concern is the 1.5 seconds lost from the extra message. As for the legendary, Kyogre is still better than Groudon, even without Thunder.
Posted: 3/26/2007 11:57 PM
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kirbymuncher
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Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
Why exactly is Groudon worse? I've never played Ruby, so I wouldn't really know.
Posted: 3/27/2007 1:13 AM
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FractalFusion
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
kirbymuncher wrote:
Why exactly is Groudon worse? I've never played Ruby, so I wouldn't really know.
Now that I think of it, it's close. Thunderless Kyogre would have problems with Glacia (requires maybe X Special/Calm Mind and Hydro Pump). On the other hand, Groudon has problems with Drake (requires maybe X Attack/Bulk Up and Slash). Kyogre does have the better move support for its weather effect. Kyogre learns Waterfall for its cause. By the way, I'm done Norman and I am up almost 5 minutes on the published run.
Posted: 3/27/2007 9:17 PM
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kirbymuncher
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Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
Nice going. If you don't want to turn the Swampert into an HM Slave so you can try and use him for the unelite five, Sharpedo gets Strength, Dive, Surf, Waterfall and Rock Smash.
Posted: 3/28/2007 12:02 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
At the point when I beat Winona, the run is over 6 minutes faster than the published run. I don't really think Swampert will go too far in Victory Road/Elite 4, so I am catching Kyogre and putting Waterfall on. Also, I forgot to catch a Pokemon early on that knows Rock Smash and Dive. As a result, I must put Dive on Marshtomp. Keep in mind that I already have Surf and Strength on Marshtomp, which means the remaining slot will stay as Facade. I won't get Earthquake unless Swampert somehow learns it naturally.
Posted: 3/28/2007 1:19 AM
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
How fast do you think the final run will be? If it goes under 1:42, we can watch "double runs" - Half is the TAS of Pokémon Red, the other half the TAS of Pokémon Sapphire.
Posted: 3/28/2007 8:14 AM
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FractalFusion
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Liza & Tate done. 11 minutes faster than published run. Actually, 10.5 minutes, since Marshtomp hasn't evolved yet. I think this run will go under 1:40.
Posted: 3/28/2007 6:38 PM
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Rridgway
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Yes! I knew the 100 minute barrier could be broken!
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Posted: 3/28/2007 6:42 PM
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Chamale
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Location: Canada
Funny that this will be the first game to do it, especially since runs of it are so new. Of course, if I work really really fast, I might finish the Red Run before Fractal finishes his. We might be looking at 90 minutes for Red.
Posted: 3/31/2007 6:57 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Now at Elite 4, 12 minutes faster than the published run. Don't expect submission anytime soon, though, and I expect the time gain to drop during the Elite 4 due to not having Thunder. Kyogre was a real hard catch, though. I had to use the Ultra Ball Zigzagoon conveniently picked up, and I still had to delay at least 60 frames. By the way, I do not recall a single guide/walkthrough which tells you actually how to use Zigzagoon's Pickup ability. Not one. I had to figure out by watching the published run.
Posted: 3/31/2007 12:23 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
I caught Kyogre after waiting 3 frames, but I can't remember if I used a Great Ball or a Pokeball and I'm too lazy to check. Also, isn't Zigzagoon's ability pretty self-explanitory?
Posted: 4/1/2007 6:12 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
kirbymuncher wrote:
I caught Kyogre after waiting 3 frames, but I can't remember if I used a Great Ball or a Pokeball and I'm too lazy to check.
You caught it with a Great Ball. But 3 frames? Are you serious? I couldn't catch it in 120 frames with a Great Ball. The serebii.net formula gives 11/256 catch rate, but it's definitely not that.
Kirbymuncher wrote:
Also, isn't Zigzagoon's ability pretty self-explanitory?
Is there something I'm missing? Maybe I'm dumb, but "Take" is universal for "Take item currently held by Pokemon if any," not "Use Zigzagoon's Pickup ability." And the description "May pick up items after a battle" does not indicate whether you have to do anything, or what you have to do if so. Either the game should auto-pickup or have a word under Zigzagoon's options labeled "Pickup". P.S. The game doesn't even say "May pick up items after a battle"; it just says "May pick up items". It must think you can read its mind.
Posted: 4/1/2007 7:26 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
If it isn't holding an item, it can pick it up randomly after the battle and hold it. Taking it doesn't actually use the ability, it just takes the item from the Zigzagoon and puts it in the bag. The ability is used sometimes after every battle. Also, I was really lucky with catching it, have you tried manipulating farther back?
Posted: 4/2/2007 4:56 AM
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FractalFusion
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
kirbymuncher wrote:
If it isn't holding an item, it can pick it up randomly after the battle and hold it. Taking it doesn't actually use the ability, it just takes the item from the Zigzagoon and puts it in the bag. The ability is used sometimes after every battle. Also, I was really lucky with catching it, have you tried manipulating farther back?
For some reason, the RNG is affected only by the current frame number. So if it doesn't work 300 frames in a row, there is nothing I can do but wait. Also, if it was determined further back, without going back, I would never catch it if I didn't catch it once, and if I did, I would always catch it.
kirbymuncher wrote:
If it isn't holding an item, it can pick it up randomly after the battle and hold it.
Thanks. That's what I was missing.
Posted: 4/3/2007 12:33 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Done and submitted: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5327
Posted: 5/5/2007 6:14 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
I've started on an improvement. So far, I am 6 seconds ahead of my previous run after beating Roxanne, with Zigzagoon swapped for Wingull. Plan for this run: - Start with Mudkip - Catch a Wingull or Taillow somewhere along the way to Rustboro. - Don't catch Zigzagoon. - Use Mudkip/Marshtomp through beating Wattson (Mauville) but don't teach Rock Tomb. - Catch a Machop near Fiery Path. Teach it Rock Tomb. - Let Machop get paralyzed on next trainer's Roselia. - Own everyone from then on. Earthquake for ghosts. Don't catch Kyogre. I don't know exactly how I ended up with near-perfect Atk/SpAtk IVs the first time, so I had to use part of the previous run up to when I get Mudkip.
Posted: 5/8/2007 4:44 PM
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Chamale
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Location: Canada
Umm... Why does Machop get paralyzed in your plan? Seems inefficient to me (unless Roselia has a 100% accuracy hit). Rridgway would like me to point out that you have 711 posts. He's weird like that.
Posted: 5/8/2007 8:06 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
Machop's ability increases its attack by 150% when it is paralyzed, asleep, poisoned, or burned. Also, Facade's power doubles (From 70 to 140) under the same circumstances. Random question: Have you thought about Taillow/Swellow?
Posted: 5/9/2007 1:20 AM
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FractalFusion
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
I gave serious thought to using Taillow, but realized that Taillow has bad Rock and Steel problems. Support is possible, though. Also Makuhita, but it's Fighting moves aren't the best. Leaving the Guts ability, Numel can get Magnitude and Overheat, but Magnitude isn't as useful in this run as it is in Pokemon Gold. Geodude? Well, the ones in Granite Cave are L8 max, and that's a steep uphill climb at that part of the game. And Geodude isn't designed to use Fire moves, or any Special-typed moves for that matter. Aron is only good at flinching. It lacks power later on. Speaking of flinching, the upgrade to the 3rd-generation games sees Low Kick lose its flinch effect for a weight-dependent power calculation. That's a crying shame. Is it true in general that 3-stage Pokemon have Fading (good) experience and 2-stage Pokemon have Medium Slow (bad) experience? That might come into play.
Posted: 5/9/2007 6:57 PM
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Chamale
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Generally, 3-stagers have fading experience. I'm not sure about 2-stagers, but it seems like they would have medium slow (I know some do). I think the Machop plan is the best plan so far. I think Quick Claw still allows first strike if the pokemon is paralyzed, so speed isn't a big issue. Kirbymuncher, when you say it improves by "150%" do you mean; 1. From 100 attack to 150 attack 2. or from 100 attack to 250 attack? I'm guessing you meant the first. In any case, that means Facade's power goes from 70 to 105, then doubles to 210, then there's the possibility of critical hits for twice the damage. The only thing I see being any sort of problem is Ghost pokemon. They can be beaten only by Ghost or Dark attacks. What's the plan for beating them?
Posted: 5/9/2007 7:08 PM
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Rridgway
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Possibly get a Abra from Granite cave to learn psychic because they have low Sp. Def?
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Posted: 5/10/2007 1:27 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Skilled player (1941)
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Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Only Sableye has lower Special Defense than Defense. And Earthquake is a good bet (though not best). I don't know how accessible Shadow Ball is. Anyway, the run isn't looking good at this point. It's my fault for not planning far ahead. After I switched over to Machop and taught it Rock Tomb, the run was about 25 seconds behind my other run. Then I needed an extra critical hit on Wingull and 2HKOs on Numel and Roselia. Poochyena required a CH, and so did both Carvanha. Finally, Machop can't OHKO Golbat even with the Guts ability active. So this run has already made major concessions. I really need timesavers later on.
Posted: 5/10/2007 3:07 PM
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Rridgway
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
A list of pokemon I think could be used for the elite 4 by themselves. 1. Dusclops (catch in mt pyre at lv 26 which i think is the highest? then train it up) Move Set: shadow ball psychic earthquake flamethrower 2. blaziken (starter) Move Set: mega kick flamethrower fire blast fire punch I believe these pokemon could beat the elite 4 quite easily by themselves.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
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