I'm actually making a TAS of this right now. It's quite intriguing and difficult. I gain control outside on frame 3451, and that's after entering my name as "Grif". I've also nailed the method, if not the mechanism, for slamming into Bill. By hugging the bottom of the table, you force yourself into it by one pixel. If you keep holding right for 11 frames, then suddenly hold down, by the time it registers in frame 14, the turn forces you out of the table at the same moment your movement forces you out of Bill.
If I could watch the memory I'd know what was going on better, but my theory is that by overlapping 2 pixels (1 in the table, 1 in Bill), you trigger the "you're going too fast" wall slam, and since bouncing on a diagonal is impossible, arbitrarily it chose down.
Unfortunately, the technique is virtually worthless since it requires you to hug the bottom side of an object while moving into an NPC.
First room GMV
I have watched the entire speed run now, and I must say it was very cool. Nicely executed with very few misses.
I'm looking forward to see if your (Eratyx) TAS is going to hold the same quality.
I have watched the entire speed run now, and I must say it was very cool. Nicely executed with very few misses.
I'm looking forward to see if your (Eratyx) TAS is going to hold the same quality.
Definitely. I'm up to Dahlia Valley now. The Rafflesia coin farming looks just like in my normal run, but optimized.
There will inevitably be points where I fail to catch specific pixels, and I wish I had a better method of cutting corners. Currently I make a save state shortly before a corner, figure out which frame puts you past the obstacle, and then try turning 2 or 3 frames beforehand, then comparing each result with a nearby marker. It all depends on how fast he's travelling at the time of turning...from neutral, his pixels/frame speed are: 0-0-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-2-1-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3, etc., and that erratic 3 screws up my placement sometimes. It often takes me 1-3 minutes per corner to do it right. Does anyone have any tips regarding more efficient cornering?
Does anyone have any tips regarding more efficient cornering?
Try letting go of the d-pad on occasion, so you slow down. This issue was a huge problem for my Ecco TAS, where he goes so much faster, turns so much slower, and takes so much longer to slow down that the last two corners of the game took me half an hour to get right.
But yeah basically the only thing you can do to corner tighter is to slow down every once in a while. If you know exact speeds, distances, and acceleration/deceleration you can calculate what the best times will be to let go of the d-pad.
Incidentally I just watched the speedrun and I'm looking forward to this TAS. Perhaps it will fill the hole in my heart left when the Minish Cap TAS was abandoned.
Edit:
VVV: I thought I remembered you saying you'd basically given up on Minish Cap in IRC at some point. No offense was intended, I just meant it to be a humorous way of watching this gameplay is kind of similar to watching Minish Cap.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Incidentally I just watched the speedrun and I'm looking forward to this TAS. Perhaps it will fill the hole in my heart left when the Minish Cap TAS was abandoned.
I wouldn't say it's "abandoned" so much as it hasn't really gone anywhere in a considerable period of time. What I want out of where I am and what I can actually get (manipulation wise) aren't the same, which is why it hasn't done anything. I asked Tompa if he'd be up for giving it a shot, but he wasn't able to get a satisfactory result either (I described to him what I thought would be best, he more or less agreed to what I thought would be good). I'd say I just don't have very much patience trying to get the right result for this room given how long I've been there, but I'm not really willing to settle for something that would be obviously sub-par (I'm aiming for less than 5 seconds, but I haven't gotten it).
In regards to the actual topic at hand, I haven't seen the speedrun, but sub one hour seems pretty decent for this game. Hopefully it has some parts that you do in a non standard way (like the way you've found already, which is certainly interesting). I'll check it out when you've gotten to the first boss.
I'd also say you should to a point use the existing wip for comparison to see if you're faster, equal, or slower at certain points. It may not provide much use, but a reference point is always good to have.
I'd also say you should to a point use the existing wip for comparison to see if you're faster, equal, or slower at certain points. It may not provide much use, but a reference point is always good to have.
So far I beat the WIP run in every section (except a tie when talking to the king) :P But I will still use it as a reference: for example, usually in Dahlia Valley I go straight for the spring pad, but now I'll check the feasibility of climbing the wall instead.
To be honest, the reason I made the normal speedrun was because someone on youtube posted an exceedingly crappy first part. It made me rage. Then I happened upon this WIP TAS and, well, it didn't make me rage, but I definitely felt that the game needs all the attention it can get. I guess you can call it my tribute to the game.
upthorn wrote:
But yeah basically the only thing you can do to corner tighter is to slow down every once in a while. If you know exact speeds, distances, and acceleration/deceleration you can calculate what the best times will be to let go of the d-pad.
Thanks for the tip! I made a spreadsheet with "skid distances" based on when I let go of the dpad. In a test of turning into a gap 17 pixels away, the table gave me six possible "best" inputs, two of which were the most efficient (one of which is my favorite method of cornering). The first two had too little velocity in the skid frames, and the last two included a diagonal input: when you make a 90° turn, you lose all your original momentum after 2 frames, and the diagonal caused me to overshoot the gap significantly. This will definitely help me line up troublesome areas.
Am I posting too often?
Problems with splicing forced me to learn hex editing. This really is tough. First Boss GMV
Rafflesia Training Grounds: Same route, but optimized. Arkiandruski unwisely goes through the entire course for 20 malins rather than zoning.
Dahlia Valley: I hit every monster when I can for a speed boost. The second one is literally pushed into the cliff, and killing him doesn't spawn an egg fast enough (luck manipulation?). I tried really really hard to get up the cliff quicker, but the springboard still seems the fastest path. Arkiandruski throws the sword at the dam as soon as possible, but I take advantage of the waterfall's speed boost to carry me down.
Wolf: First I charge up my sword and perform a spin attack. Then I remember I'm playing the wrong game. Primary speed methods: (1) throwing the sword at the first possible frame; (2) getting as close to the Wolf as possible to allow the sword to contact 1 frame after it appears; (3) swinging the sword at the stars to begin charging quicker; (4) killing the Wolf and taking damage simultaneously to jump towards the exit. I make chop suey out of the Wolf when all is said and done.
Dahlia Valley: Again, instead of waiting at the bottom for the waterfall to appear, I ride it all the way down.
Not really, but if your post is the last one in the thread, it is often better to edit new content onto the end of the post, instead of making a second post in a row. Just uncheck "minor edit" and the IRC channel will still be notified.
You might benefit from using http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php for your WIPs. That way they're backed up permanently, and you can upload two files with the same name without the first one getting overwritten.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
It's been a while, but I'm still working on the run. I'm coming to the point where, for planning and testing routes, I need to be better at positioning and manipulating speed. It would help a lot if I could find the memory addresses for character position and speed, but there are so many changing elements that it's difficult to pinpoint. Could anybody help me on this?
I've managed to get a basic watch list together. (right-click, save as, rename to match your rom)
it's probably not got everything you need, but based on the results it looks like all of your important player-related values are stored in the same area of RAM, so that should help you narrow down searches tremendously. (just search by address no less than FFAC00 and you'll be at the start of the player-related RAM addresses).
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Forum rule invoked:
"Double-posting about your progress is okay if some time has passed since your last post - one day is a good rule of thumb. People will not notice new content easily if you just edit your last post several times."
Thanks to upthorn's starting point I put together a watchlist covering nearly all the most important stats: http://www.personal.psu.edu/kmg5075/Crusader_of_Centy.wch
Due to better cornering techniques and better understanding of data values, I'm restarting from scratch. Since starting 5 days ago, I've passed my previous WIP and am now at Anemone Beach with some great improvements (totalling 584 frames saved.)
The largest part of the improvement comes from skipping Granny's speech after the Wolf fight. I was unaware that you could exit the screen early if you reach the door as the Wolf dies. A better route was found in Rafflesia, and charge-cancelling (holding A just before something interrupts you, like an enemy or spring) was used liberally throughout Dahlia. Charge-cancelling will be replaced by jump-charging from Anemone onwards.
I will admit I was not looking forward to measuring lag...if anyone wants to help me out with upper Dahlia (sometimes six turtles and three birds appear onscreen, on top of Corona and his sword) feel free to look at it. The "best" route gives 2-6 frames of lag while dealing with the turtles depending on when you throw your sword: each sprite that collides with the sword seems to tax the game slightly, so I attempt to make it hit only the second turtle and not the first (which I can run past.) Also, the sword requires more CPU if thrown on an angle.
I accidentally discovered another glitch towards the end that, while I was pushed into the wall 3 pixels, allowed me to enter the top cave in Dahlia without turning the corner.
Also, I tend to host a video encode of my progress on my webspace for my friends, updated roughly every time the GMV changes.
That was quite a nice wip you posted, however I noticed what may or may not be a flaw. You damage boost quite nicely off of most enemies in your path, but there was one enemy which you didn't despite it being almost directly in your way. The amount of health you had wasn't an issue since you purposely took more damage from the wolf.
Would boosting off of that enemy (twice, since you went past it twice and didn't dama boost either time) be faster, or did you already try it and have the resulting boost turn out slower than just walking past it?
That was quite a nice wip you posted, however I noticed what may or may not be a flaw. You damage boost quite nicely off of most enemies in your path, but there was one enemy which you didn't despite it being almost directly in your way. The amount of health you had wasn't an issue since you purposely took more damage from the wolf.
Would boosting off of that enemy (twice, since you went past it twice and didn't dama boost either time) be faster, or did you already try it and have the resulting boost turn out slower than just walking past it?
You mean the one on floor 3 that I run past both times? He's completely pushed into the wall, so I can't touch him.
Also, when I messed around with the Wolf I didn't anticipate being healed to only 7 HP rather than 10 (since I skipped the cutscene.) I may have to go back and edit out those lost 3 HP if I need it later, but I don't foresee any damage boosting opportunities in Anemone Beach 1/2.
==Edit 9/19==
Having beaten the Octopus, I'm now past Arkiandruski in the game with 6905 frames saved. I did end up taking damage twice in the beach, but awesomely enough, I had exactly the right amount of HP. Yes! Also, the amazing cliffside shortcut has been implemented. I had to goof off a little bit while the wind cleared; there's really not much to do about that, so I refilled some health and got a coin. Going for the money bag would be wasteful.
Anemone Beach and Hot Daisy complete. Found out you can extend a damage boost by jumping just before the hit, so I redid the entrance to Anemone. The resulting desync caused a remarkable amount of stress.
So far I haven't found a reason to equip Chilly since the horizontal slide allows me to jump over the lava entirely. I'm steadily improving as a TASer, but I'm still not looking forward to dealing with Flash and Moa and Castle Freesia.
==Edit==
Had to do Anemone Beach again after realizing you can jump 2 frames after landing and retain most of your momentum; the desync was much nicer to me this time. You will see a good deal of bunny-hopping throughout the run as I play with damage boosting and sliding around.
That skip was awesomely impressive to watch, good work on pulling it off. I can't really think of anything else to add apart from that actually, so yeah.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
I just found a good pic from this game:
I didn't know fifty centy was famous back then.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
pirate_sephiroth: Why do you put so much effort into being annoying all the time? I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, or what you think you gain by it, but it sure isn't making anyone like you.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
upthorn wrote:
pirate_sephiroth: Why do you put so much effort into being annoying all the time? I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, or what you think you gain by it, but it sure isn't making anyone like you.
Agreed. 90% of your posts come with irrelevant pictures and text and I've grown tired of it.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
pirate_sephiroth: Why do you put so much effort into being annoying all the time? I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, or what you think you gain by it, but it sure isn't making anyone like you.
Agreed. 90% of your posts come with irrelevant pictures and text and I've grown tired of it.
It works in appropriate off-topic threads. But, it has to be funny and relevant. Lately, he's just posting crap for the sake of posting crap.
Unfortunately, it is partially my fault for the turtle thread, which opened the door to posting silly pictures in main board threads.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Yes, sir! Your encouragement actually means a lot to me as a speed-game speedrunner (Sonic 3, Ecco, etc.) I balked at the task of an entertaining Shuffler boss fight, since you get around 10 seconds of idle time between hits, but I think I managed it well enough. I got through Burn Daisy with only 2 HP left, and I imagine it will only get harder to prioritize damage boosts. The next segment will be very long in coming since I will be tackling the Cheetah race fresh (though in playing the game normally I can consistently beat him without the bribe) and Iris is very long in general.
In Burn Daisy I discovered a minor glitch with the blocks, and a way to enter doors early by backing out. I experimented with the last slime, trying to damage boost over the lava and skip the platforms, but my slide speed fell rapidly as I jumped over the lava, so it is impossible. At least I can collect my money bag as usual.
(By the way, the new door glitch means that maybe 20 frames can be saved in earlier areas. But I am seriously unwilling to redo my work on the intense luck parts.)
Amazing!
I didn't know fifty centy was famous back then.
