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Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
if its worth anything, i vote to use the japanese version for the usual reasons (nobodys gonna read the text anyway, etc.).
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
I vote for the English version. Even if you can't read the dialogs (and I'm getting pretty good at speed reading in Chrono Trigger) there are in-game battle stuff with dialogs. Nice to know what items, what spells, etc are being used. The little things matter. Edit: speeling
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
But what about viewers who can only read Japanese? That's not very internationally friendly!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
What about the people who can only read English? I vote for the English version, since it's the only language I can read. I've started losing interest in watching the SDA Secret of Mana run because I can't understand all of what's going on, due to it being in french or a similar language. I find Speed Runs more enjoyable when I can follow along.
Recca
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 3/18/2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Sounds like we have a 50-50 argumentation here. I will see what I'm going to do, but my test will be (U) for now using the character names from my own "SoM based" game. But if I'm going to do a complete I still want to do (J) to keep everything original like the names and stuff.
Kodachi no Hans - Hans i Dungen [Baka Rangers]
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
the battle text argument doesnt work in this case because its all done by icons.
TorZelan
He/Him
Joined: 8/11/2006
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Sweden
My view and personal opinion: This is one of the games I'd like to see most of all, and I'd watch it straight through without speeding anything up and I'd enjoy it immensely. However, there is already a run at SDA - and thanks to the sole fact that it is in French I couldn't bear with it many minutes at all and found it incredibly boring, however well done it may or may not have been which I will never find out before falling asleep or turning it off. For this game I just see no good reason in the universe to do it in J. Unless there is something technical (I haven't fully read this thread yet), but even then I'd honestly vote for enjoyability being prioritized. I wouldn't be surprised if some one said "that's your opinion", and it would be absolutely correct, BUT - who disagrees and for what reason? Is it "cool" to have a bunch of J symbols? Would you do it "just because I can"? J - no watch, but respect where respect is due. U - fun times and eternal praise. Simple as that. :)
Gamer, musician, bonesword wielder.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
I can't understand why people want to use the J versions. Could we (Bisqwit) PLEASE make a rule out of this? Using a language I don't understand completely ruins the run for me.
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
i would definitely prefer the english version.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Recca
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 3/18/2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Well, looks like there were some whining about doing a (J) run so I'm gonna do a (U) run... But I do agree that it should be a rule or for the best, no diffrent at all, fastest run, least frames and no complaining :S That's my opinion anyway.
Kodachi no Hans - Hans i Dungen [Baka Rangers]
Joined: 3/16/2006
Posts: 289
You could do the bi-lingual hack!
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
whats that?
Player (34)
Joined: 12/18/2005
Posts: 250
This may have been an obvious question but.. Are there any differences between the two games? if not.. will there be a desync if you decide to play the movie with the other version? If not, hooray! \o/ If so.. well, tough luck and go back to figuring out japan/english :(
我々を待ち受けなさい。
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
A different number of letters/characters in the text will cause desyncs almost immediately. ...At least, that's what usually happens.
Joined: 4/16/2005
Posts: 251
The game even desyncs if you plug an additional controller into the emulator, how do you think it will cope with an additional language? ;)
Recca
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 3/18/2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
hehe. No shit about the desync :P Nothing says that I'm going to finnish the run but nice to know what people think about this sorts of question. Gorash, I'm just wondering how you made your run with 3player controlling more with the technical? :) using just your keyboard etc.
Kodachi no Hans - Hans i Dungen [Baka Rangers]
Joined: 4/16/2005
Posts: 251
If you browse this topic through there should be a brief discussion about it. I have all three controllers mapped on the keyboard, and have a few keys reserved for special combinations like "left+down on all three controllers". Then I use the hold function to enter the buttons for each player as needed (mostly they only need to run oder walk in a certain direction). The really annoying part is in combat, when the input on a different controller changes the random vlues for another player hitting. You basically have to finde a combination of all three controllers that satisfies you, testing ahead with only one or two can be in vain if the third breaks your random values.
Joe
Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 152
Location: Wisconsin
Eh, I don't mind if its in Japanese. Its not like there's any real interesting dialogue anyways, nor is it hard to figure out what's going on without English text. And it'll likely be skipped real fast anyways.
Joined: 6/4/2005
Posts: 130
Location: Ontario, Canada
As much as I'm loving this relatively unimportant little language discussion... Anybody doing the run? And if so, how far along is it?
Joined: 4/16/2005
Posts: 251
Not doing the run, but still occasionally working on the WIP hoping it's sometime finished without me noticing... The thing that keeps me from it at the moment is: I need Sword at lv2 and another weapon at lv1 to perform the charge glitch. I tested a few hours and it seems to be the fastest spot to level if I do it directly before the tonpole. Unfortunately that's still a good 5 minutes of fighting, and fighting is random, boring, and slow.
Recca
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 3/18/2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Yea sword lv2 is very needed I think, and the glitch is really good cause you don't have to level up other weapons as much as you only running and cutting through with the sword mostly and the others just spamming magic. But which weapons do you think you're going to go with for the most? is the spear really that important when you must switch btw axe and whip much.. You have any idea of that question so far?
Kodachi no Hans - Hans i Dungen [Baka Rangers]
Joined: 3/27/2005
Posts: 37
I definitely stop my fast walkthrought. My HDD has been stolen like others things, so i stop this. I was at Puritas in about 2h30 ( that depend where i am at Puritas, i don't know the time at the entree ). I'm just now sure SOM TAS-No Glitch can be done under 3H. It had 42 000 + Rerecord ( i didn't remenber for the 1h47 i posted, but it was something like 8000), level of movie became always better with the time. When i replayed the movie, it was really impressive I played at 2% for switching char ( i didn't use frame advance, it isn't even TAS ), took lots of screen of bug ( which are now losts ). SOM needs really a full run. If you're planning a room since a long time and have difficulties, just think that at the end, you're always supposed to reach the room and give in the same time it's very linear. I had char bug, map bug, and cheating between the room is perharps possible like ALTTP, with emulator only of course. There is less teleportation than ALTTP, but i'm sure interresting thins will be found in the future. This game will really need a ton a time, because of this famous bug of the 100% barre wich need anormally to be reloaded more than one time for to run, when you use lots of time the select button in a short time. If the way to have this can be see, perharps it can be missed. The room before the 3* clones ( insides the moutain ) will be a true pain to TAS, i had this bug all the time !! Because you're switching the char is this very fragmented directions ( you need here 0 or 1 or 2 select ), then you always retake the char with the axe for to delete the rock : this precise and needed alternance does a ton of matter by creating the bug of 100% barre. I'm glad there is always motivation for this game. Gorash can you up your the full smv of your current work ? And there is a long time ago, i posted a french site and it has been translated -) i have forgotten to say thanks. ---) Just about glitch speed run/TAS, i don't like that ( like you know ) because : you cut, you cut, and at the end after a few accepted speed run/TAS glitched, you finish the game in something like 10min... Perharps with the end of this smv ( i will not restart with the 1h47 i posted because these first 1h47 are really crap when i see the next stuff ) it is the way to start a TAS for me, i'll see. But i'll never do that alone. For the names of the three characters, i think the best can be finally one letter for glitched TAS, and true name for no-glitched TAS, however, to put the trues name even in a glitched is fine because the run remain nice, before it will be finished in 0h20min in a long time :( TorZelan i have a sad english, i didn't understood what you say about my old run, there are just boring french text or you are a french which just like to understand french text in this boring run ? No difference between JAP and US, these NTSC have the same glitchs i think, and about the quantity of the text, i think it will be diferents categories so i just recommand US version. Arg please no hack for this game. SOM desyncs easy, just let the misc like at the begin of the record. I understood why sometime the vid desynchs itself, perhaps someone knows better than me, but i already had that ( and i remenber a strange case for DKC2 on this forum, but i don't remenber exactly ) : 1-Rerecord the vid TAS 2-Close the vid, with rerecord savestates at the end 3-Reload the vid in rewind mode, and try to open a rerecord savestate : it's the same vid, but emulator tells you you can't reload it ( "it doesn't exist" ) 4-However, it killed this rerecord savestate, and the movie is now desynch when you replay it, and you can't even see it if you take a younger rerecord savestat -) bad surprise at the end when replaying the movie for to see your stuff. 5- Safe solution : delete all savestates and recreate them by replaying the movie in rerecord or rewind mode ( now it doesn't desynch anymore, except if you have continued the vid before to delete the saves :( ), that depends of what type of savestates do you want. -) I did that more than one time, but now each time i forgot to uncheck rewind mode and when i see savestate doesn't exist, i close the vid, delete the saves and recreate them. ***Magical Damage -When i was manipulating Magical Damage, well in fact the boss fights will not be to hard, you have to manipulate spell one per one, freeze, the most common, is easy, if there is a crap dammage, just wait a frame ( of the game, not of the emulator of course ) -However, there is a few hard magie like earth slide, if you don't spam perfectly this spell, the boss will not take all the dammage in the face in one time. It is the same situation for the spells which need to be finished before the next, it's just here you can have more matters. -There is too the matter of Undine Level 8+ against Dark Lich, with special animation which ruins the spam. -And i think Luna/Dryad MUST be at level 4.00 for the final fight :/ If not, effect of Mana Sword+Luna combo is too short for one cycle of Demo Mana. -There isn't critical magical damage, just good damage, normal damage, bad damage, and randomly crap damage, this %random decreases while Level of Spell increases. TAS will be addition of good damage. Well i learned a ton of things of this game -) TASers, i will help you when you'll be at precise point ( boss fight, training ), and about the rooms, well i can perharps say what i think even if you'll know more than me for rooms ;). Gorash : less than 5min of fight ;). Do you restarted your movie ? The movie which reachs Spikey Tigger, what have you done then ? Up all of that please, it's always good for motivation ;). Recca : what about you now for the smv ? ;) Gorash, you always want to do the TAS alone ? He or i can help you in the way to put this sword at l2+the other at l1, even if i don't like glichted run :) For the other weapon at l1, have you an idea ( which weapon ) ? I should test differents things with your vid.
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Well. I don't really care what language the Final Runs are in, but I at least want the English version used for the Test Runs. :3 And I'll be happy. ^.^ I am wondering if any progress has been made on either of these Test Runs as of late though. EDIT: This site must really hate AOL. Three Missed tried when trying to send this message from there, so I had to switch to Internet Explorer. >.>
Joined: 4/16/2005
Posts: 251
Seiken wrote:
I definitely stop my fast walkthrought. My HDD has been stolen like others things, so i stop this. I was at Puritas in about 2h30 ( that depend where i am at Puritas, i don't know the time at the entree ).
Pity. Your smv was a very nice testing tool.
This game will really need a ton a time, because of this famous bug of the 100% barre wich need anormally to be reloaded more than one time for to run, when you use lots of time the select button in a short time. If the way to have this can be see, perharps it can be missed.
What is this bug? I't won't affect a 3-player run, because select is never pressed more than once, but I can't think of what you mean right now.
-And i think Luna/Dryad MUST be at level 4.00 for the final fight :/ If not, effect of Mana Sword+Luna combo is too short for one cycle of Demo Mana.
This one is a new one. Will have to be tested.
Gorash : less than 5min of fight ;). Do you restarted your movie ? The movie which reachs Spikey Tigger, what have you done then ? Up all of that please, it's always good for motivation ;). Gorash can you up your the full smv of your current work ?
I could, but it's not like you see the work. All you can see is me going from Tiger to Undines cave and hitting the first batch of fishes. What goes unnoticed, is that I tested different spots to level weapons. I've tested lowbie trash (like rabites), chobin hoods in the woods, and werewolfs before tiger mostly, but it boils down to this: - leveling weapons before Tropicallo is out of question, Randi is alone, and stuff dies far too slowly. - leveling in the woods fails, because at three players the chobin hoods only give 4 weapon exp. - leveling on low trash fails for the same reason, since there is no room where one shots can be gotten fast in a row. - Werewolfs do give full exp, but with the ridiculously low levels of the magicusers they take their time too, and there is only one room with two of them, none with three. - Stools are untested, I fear they will evade if I try to hit them with all three players at once. Of course it would make the tiger battle a lot faster.
Gorash, you always want to do the TAS alone ?
Never said, never meant that. It's just that there isn't anything to hide since the last WIP. Feel free to try to get sword to level 2 in the room with 3 stools in elinees castle.
For the other weapon at l1, have you an idea ( which weapon ) ?
For maximum damage I would've said axe or spear. Now that I know just how much damage the glitch does, I'd vote for a weapon with hit-bonus, or one were the orbs can forge such a weapon later. This way we can abondon magic altogether and just finish off the bosses with a ranged weapon. The downside is that the ranged weapons are a pain to level, bow and javelin can only hit one enemy, and whip has a very narrow hitbox. EDIT: Looked up weapon stats, according to manual: - The 2-orbed axe gives a +2 bonus to all stats. If that includes 2% to hit, then this is the weapon to go for. - The 2-orbed whip is listed to increase speed. Never noticed it though...
TorZelan
He/Him
Joined: 8/11/2006
Posts: 33
Location: Northern Sweden
Seiken wrote:
TorZelan i have a sad english, i didn't understood what you say about my old run, there are just boring french text or you are a french which just like to understand french text in this boring run ?
I just said that for me (and many people i know) it is more fun to be able to read the text (since you can't skip it completely anyway) and in SoM I really wanted to do this but couldn't since I do not know any French. For this discussion the point was that if there is no "real" reason to have Japanese instead of English other than "because we can even if we don't know Japanese" then English would be great for all the people who want to be able to read it. A big argument for not caring seems to be "nobody reads it anyway" which is very wrong, and if those people don't read it anyway and don't care... Let it be English then :) I'm sure you had a reason for doing your run in French and I can never complain about non-assisted runs since they all amaze me, it's just that this particular game, for me, is walk walk walk slash slash walk slash wait wait wait if the text isn't readable. If the text is readable, then woah it's suddenly Secret of Mana and a warm fuzzy feeling inside :)
Gamer, musician, bonesword wielder.
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