Topic by Seiken

Posted: 6/23/2009 11:18 PM

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Seiken

Joined: 3/27/2005
Posts: 37

It's again me. I restarted a smv, look really a TAS, it's just i don't use Frame Advance. It will not posted on the site, but it will be a really pleasure to watch. Very higher than my first fast walkthrough. It's really a serious bone for a TAS, just frame advance it and you have your TAS. Again, my smv is no glitches and its for a TAS no-glitch. I'm now with the first boss, i gave him the first hit (18) then i have to give him 4 crit hit ( 4*36 ) for to hit his 150 HP. I'm having some problems for to manipulates crit hit, i saw that Gorash waited the frame for crit hit, while im trying to manipulate many frames till i can hit after the 100% bar is relaunched. I wanted to have your opinion on this : the crit hit depends only to wait a certain frame and so there is nothing to do for to crit hit just after relaunch bar 100% if this isn't a crit hit ? By the way, i made a bit creativity : in this game to run in a right line is as fast as to run in diagonal line so i had fun of this : if a passage seems to be too long : replay it at 6% or re-record it and try to win one frame and you will see : it was still the fastest way ;) At the beginning before to go in the first village u have little bridges : u can skip a bit stairs ( their little slow down ) if your bar is full. PS: you can forget Mianoë.

Posted: 7/19/2009 5:04 AM

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kchrules

Joined: 11/11/2007
Posts: 242
Location: the 1950s

Made this in spare time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxFZO0HTLBQ I'm not making the TAS of this and its nowhere near optimized, and not alot of critical hits, but enjoy.

Currently working on: -Possibly the Wily Tower (Mega Man the Wily Wars)

Posted: 7/19/2009 8:02 AM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

Oh man, that just reminds me of how desperately this game needs to be TASed. This and Yoshi's Island 100%.

Posted: 9/10/2009 10:00 PM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

Anyone still working on SoM? I just googled around for a while and found this: http://somedit.blogspot.com/2008/09/secret-of-mana-editor.html Might be interesting if the developer continues the project. I'm also still looking for that glitch I once told you guys about. I think it can be seen on page 8 in this topic. Anyways to re-write it just so you don't need to jump around and look for it. It was when playing on my PAL SNES, facing the ice country boss - Frost gigas, I died in battle against it and the screen switched to see the palace from the outside, and then the message "Shame" appeared on the screen. After that I was then was taken back into battle with Gigas. I am 100% sure that this happened, no matter what else people say. I still want to find info about this glitch / Easter egg. I will even try to find a way to dump my own cartridge to be sure of the actual version I have. This might take a while though. I'm not sure if it's possible to search for the message it self by using a hex table? http://datacrystal.org/wiki/Secret_of_Mana:TBL Maybe someone could help me out. I don't want to leave this question. I want answers! If it is bound to a specific rom version, which one would it be? How would one reproduce this thing in game? Is it possible to do it against other bosses as well? I think that frost gigas was near death when he managed to kill me, if that helps?

Posted: 9/10/2009 10:37 PM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

I've actually been considering starting this up - The script written by HHS has a ton of potential to be used in making the TAS. Add FatRatKnight's multi-input script, and this TAS may be do-able. Finally.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 9/10/2009 10:51 PM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (58)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 872
Location: Utah

I recently found this glitch out, I don't know how I found it or how to do it. I was playing with my brothers and we went through a door passage, the one where when you enter it, it shifts upwards, (or down, left, right, whatever) and I think one of us held down, and another one held up, I wasn't quite sure, and before we knew it, we were shifting screens, we were going through walls and passages and such. I would like to see this glitch being put into action. Careful though, when we stopped at a wall, we were stuck into the wall, so we used a magic rope to get ourselves out.

Posted: 9/11/2009 5:04 PM

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HHS

Active player (282)

Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

You always go back outside when you die at Frost Gigas. This is controlled by 7ECF0B, which is set to 3 when fighting him. This is the script that's executed when you die. 07FF: CA988B hold CA988C ifbetween 0B 0 0 jump 07FE CA9891 ifbetween 0B 1 1 jump 07FD CA9896 ifbetween 0B 3 3 jump 066F CA989B ifbetween 0B 4 4 jump 0025 CA98A0 inc FF CA98A2 call 0748 CA98A4 tint dark 1F1F1F CA98A8 wait 20 CA98AA call 07C7 CA98AC set 00 0 CA98AF path 0075 CA98B1 text "<Open> Sadly, no trace of " CA98C6 call 07FB CA98C8 text "\ was ever found..." CA98DB wait key CA98DD text "<Close>" CA98DE reset At the very beginning of the game, 7ECF0B is set to 0, and when you die, the ghost tells you to wake up. When you're fighting the Mantis Ant, it's set to 1, and Jema helps you if you die. If set to 4, you're in the training cave, and Jehk asks what's wrong with you. Script 66F, which is called when 7ECF0B is 3, is as follows: 066F: CA8DFC call 0748 CA8DFE tint dark 1F1F1F CA8E02 wait 20 CA8E04 call 07C7 CA8E06 path 0200 CA8E08 inc F8 CA8E0A text "<Open> ...SCRAM..!" CA8E18 wait 10 CA8E1A text "<Close>" CA8E1B dec F8 CA8E1D call 0748 CA8E1F face talker south CA8E22 setchrvar talker.190 00 CA8E26 setchrvar talker.191 00 CA8E2A heal talker CA8E2C update talker CA8E2E sound 02 07 00 88 CA8E33 updatehp CA8E34 wait 10 CA8E36 jump 0636

Posted: 9/11/2009 10:03 PM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

Really? I thought you had to spawn where ever you saved last time, since this is what normally happens? Cool then. So then it is proved? :)

Posted: 9/12/2009 5:31 AM

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ledauphinbenoit

Joined: 8/29/2005
Posts: 148
Location: Dayton, OH

I'd say that proves what you were looking for. It's not really a glitch/easter egg though, just the game being 'forgiving' if you die at certain points. Sounds like what Captain Forehead found could be useful if it can duplicated.

Posted: 9/12/2009 6:29 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

that SoM Editor looks wicked.

Posted: 9/13/2009 1:34 AM

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Ferret_Warlord

Skilled player (1404)

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape

Captain Forehead wrote:

I recently found this glitch out, I don't know how I found it or how to do it. I was playing with my brothers and we went through a door passage, the one where when you enter it, it shifts upwards, (or down, left, right, whatever) and I think one of us held down, and another one held up, I wasn't quite sure, and before we knew it, we were shifting screens, we were going through walls and passages and such. I would like to see this glitch being put into action. Careful though, when we stopped at a wall, we were stuck into the wall, so we used a magic rope to get ourselves out.

About amonth ago, I participated in a three player campaign, and we did this in Gaia's Navel. Or wherever the dwarves are. So add this post as a second witness. Fortunately it didn't place us in a bad position. I'll have to contact a friend about it, see if he remembers any more particulars.

A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.

Posted: 9/25/2009 9:52 PM
(Edited: 9/26/2009 7:11 AM)

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sylphine

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 22
Location: france

Hi to all I stand I am sylphine I have just register on the forum I want to do a TAS of Secret of Mana I started so I just post here for me to know and seek information to make a good TAS I made a little test videos here that called me what you think please http://www.dailymotion.com/user/sylphine/video/xam20t_test-tas-secret-of-mana_videogames sorry if my English is weak I'm French

Posted: 9/25/2009 11:05 PM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (58)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 872
Location: Utah

I wish you posted it on youtube, my computer won't let me on dailymotion. :P

Posted: 9/26/2009 12:19 AM

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sylphine

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 22
Location: france

ok for you tube but wait the videos load http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Qj66VAMWk

Posted: 9/26/2009 9:24 AM

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DaTeL237

Active player (353)

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands

Interesting to see a new go at SoM :) did you try getting crits instead of regular hits? pretty sure I read/seen something about it on TASvids but I'm too lazy to look it up... sorry What's your plan for leveling/magic/weapon-upgrades/etc? GL either way

TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]

Posted: 9/26/2009 11:33 AM

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sylphine

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 22
Location: france

for critical I already try tigror it depends on too many criteria at once I must do 10 re record type to each frame and see what is going to criticize if not for leveling magic weapon and I'm mad I think I'll make the boss

Posted: 9/26/2009 1:57 PM

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funnyhair

Player (116)

Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny

Sylphine to help you, I would recommend a memory watcher. If you type in " Gocha's memory watcher" into Google, it will bring you to the page for it. Make sure you download the SNES one. If you have any questions, talk to NAHOC, he speaks french and will help you out. I think most of the addresses you should be watching are located in this forum. it would be helpful if someone could post them.

[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool

Posted: 9/26/2009 5:40 PM

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HHS

Active player (282)

Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

Here's a WIP I made until the beginning of the dwarf caves last year. I avoid getting in the way of a rabite in the forest by making sure it doesn't get loaded due to there already being 3 on the screen. I also run behind the first house in the town instead of down. My boss fight is shorter due to accumulating hits while the boss is recovering. I haven't explored the possibility of making it even shorter by getting critical hits since my damage/critical calculator wasn't done yet when I fought him. Remember to enable multitap 5 before playing this movie. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1232620366/hhssom.smv Another important thing I did was to time cutting the grass properly according to the 5-frame rule.

Posted: 9/26/2009 9:18 PM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

HHS - Obviously you know how criticals are calculated - So I have a few questions- 1) How is this value calculated? 2) Can it be manipulated in advance? 3) Can you calculate say, 10 frames out? I tried to read your Lua code, but damn that is some complex stuff.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 9/26/2009 10:09 PM

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HHS

Active player (282)

Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

I've documented it in an earlier post. Here, "Random" means generating a random number, measured in 256ths. The RNG offset is at 0x3f0 and the 15 byte table is at 0x3f1. To make a random number, the byte at the current offset is added to the byte before it and stored in the byte before it. This is the random number. Then the offset is increased. I don't have access to the game's code right now, so this is based on previous posts and the script. Slow lowers hit rate by 1/16. Hit rate is halved when recovering after action. Mini lowers target's defense by 3/4. Attack succeeds if hit rate is greater than (1+Random)*Evade/2. Force = Attack*(1+(Charge level+Mana Sword Power)/4). If the attacker is small, force is always 1. If hit rate is greater than Random*101, Power = (Mana power squared+Force)*(1+Random/16), otherwise Power = Hit rate*Force/100. If evade rate is greater than Random*100, DefPower = Defense+Random*Defense/16, otherwise DefPower = Evade*Defense/80 Critical hits are possible when fully recovered, or with moon energy. These double the attack power. If target is sleeping, the critical rate doubles. The woman's rate is then increased by 5 and the man and sprite's hit rates are increased by 10. If the result is then greater than Random*256, the hit will be critical. If the attacker is recovering, Power becomes (1-Frames left/((99-Agility)/2+80))*(Power/2). Damage equals Power - DefPower. The target is woken up. Status is only inflicted if damage was done and target is not protected against anything it would be inflicted with. I found a bug in my script, it says rt[z-1] where it should have been rt2[z-1] in one place, and likewise for rt[z] instead of rt2[z]. You can probably try to calculate in in advance, but the values used will be outdated, and you have to take into account other uses of the random number generator. Damage can be manipulated by waiting more frames before attacking or attacking more times, or getting enemies to attack you.

Posted: 9/27/2009 4:41 AM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

If I'm understanding you correctly, (given a non-status effected enemy), the number of RNG executions between the current location in the table, and the next table location? In other words, you could come up with a number each frame, that told you how many executions of the RNG till the next critical? Perhaps also another counter that tells you how many RNG executions happened the last frame advance? I found the script difficult to use, because I couldn't use it to really predict the next critical. Granted, there was a ton of information on the screen that is probably more relevant to the hacker than the TASer.

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 9/27/2009 12:05 PM

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HHS

Active player (282)

Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

When an event is not executing, the RNG is normally updated 1 time per frame. I'd make use of the script by finding the frame on which a critical hit could happen, and then go back and try to hit the enemy on that frame. So you have to do some rerecording. If you wanted to find a critical hit some frames in advance, you could add that to the index used to find the random number (in the rt2 table) and subtract that number of frames from the recovery counter, and remember to add it to the 5-counter (updc) modulo 5. The counter directly below the table of random numbers at the top shows how many times the RNG was used during the last frame. You can't directly tell the number of RNG executions until the next critical without taking account which frames it's possible to attack on. You can only attack an enemy once every 5 frames. The number of RNG executions before it decides whether it's a critical hit also depends on some other calculations. Anyway, I think that almost all of the information on the screen can be useful at times. You never know when it might come handy. I briefly tried if I could find some critical opportunities with Mantis Ant, but it turned out that they were so rare that I'd have to wait for a long time to get them. I wonder if I should have killed some rabites at the beginning to level my sword? I may have to charge up the sword to hurt the Mana Beast and I don't know if I'll have an opportunity to get easy weapon experience later on.

Posted: 9/29/2009 6:59 PM

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sylphine

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 22
Location: france

I found a super glicht when you control 2 characters at the same time zone change without moving ca sends us further look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgOsJKOuhRs

Posted: 9/29/2009 8:44 PM

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Captain_Forehead

Player (58)

Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 872
Location: Utah

That's exactly what I was talking about. Bravo for figuring out how to do it!

Posted: 9/30/2009 7:57 AM
(Edited: 10/16/2009 9:24 AM)

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DaTeL237

Active player (353)

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands

wow nice find, could you explain in more details how it is performed and the effects? :) can't wait to try it myself :D now to find some breaks :D at SpeedDemosArchive a glitch was demonstrated where Wall is abused to overflow some value.... couldn't find any detailed explanation tbh :D topic: http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,1142.msg280403.html#msg280403 youtube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joajlbigeVs&feature=channel_page edit: oh... this glitch was already known in 2004 :P

TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]