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Posted: 6/23/2015 7:13 PM
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Oddity
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Casting on the Sprite seemed to forego the healing animation somehow, possibly because another character got frostied around the same time? Then she gets frostied again by being so close to the slimes. Then the girl is healed, getting the animation, and Sprite seems to turn into another object entirely seemingly, melding with the group of slimes, forever becoming part of their kin, and the Mana Beast wins. I don't know how this helps, but I felt like detailing what I saw. Not sure if the number of elements on screen factors into things as well.
<^>v AB X LR s
Posted: 7/9/2015 1:41 AM
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DemonStrate
Joined: 4/18/2006
Posts: 179
Location: East Petersburg, PA
Yagamoth wrote:
It happened, we finally have footage from a speedrun where one of the characters completely disappeared :D http://www.twitch.tv/incroyablebb/c/6853352 I really wonder what happened there and how to reproduce it though oô
Wow. Reminds me of the story of Frosty the Snowman. It is crazy to think that whatever glitch occurred completely despawned the sprite. It would be simply amazing if this can be reproduced and a "Boy Only" run could be made. :-D
"I think we can put our differences behind us... for science, you monster."
Posted: 7/20/2015 8:41 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
I managed to trigger it. If you use a medical herb while the damage digits are still being shown, there will be no healing animation, and the character regains control once the digits fade. The character can then move around for a second while still being a snowman, and it is possible to disappear by pushing downwards on an enemy, for example. This may provide a clue as to what is happening in the second video. But the video is missing some seconds right where it gets interesting, so it is not clear what exactly is going on there. I still have no idea of what happened in the japanese one.
Posted: 7/22/2015 12:08 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Cross reference to the GameFAQs forums where Regrs managed to get more information: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588646-secret-of-mana/69150657/826294918
Posted: 8/5/2015 11:12 PM
(Edited: 8/29/2015 5:23 AM)
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Overfiendvip
Joined: 8/5/2015
Posts: 29
I'm making a post here to see if HHS (or anyone) would know how to find the right series of inputs to produce "The End" screen on the Japanese version. The series of inputs seems to be different, assuming it still exists. I'm not sure how to find it myself since both lua scripts I tried using did not appear to work on this version (tried multiple lsnes versions just to make sure that wasn't an issue) and I have essentially no experience with memory addresses, nor do I think I would have a simple time piecing them together towards a path towards the inputs I'm looking for, so some assistance would be greatly appreciated. If it helps to know, you can perform the same inputs on the Japanese version that the English version performs to "The End"; however, nothing happens afterward; you simply reach a point where you can keep doing inputs (but without knowing what inputs you should do, it is essentially a dead end), so perhaps it is possible that it's a similar sequence. 8/29/15 Edit - Credit to Crow (a.k.a. iicrowii) for taking the time to find the inputs himself. For anyone interested, the inputs are Left, B, Left, B, Left, B, Left, B, Left x 26, B, which looks like this when done decently humanly, making it potentially a few seconds faster than English. Japanese should also save substantial time up to that point as well (I'm estimating around ten seconds for humans, but not entirely sure).
Posted: 8/17/2015 9:30 AM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
LSNES is not supported, only Snes9x and Bizhawk. If you change the line that says dest=0xf2d4 to dest=rw(0xc907fe), it will probably work on both English and Japanese.
Posted: 11/22/2015 5:44 PM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
I recently encountered a new weird bug: http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/v/27153078 Short version: Somehow my Boomerang became a Chakram right before or after beating Spring Beak. I have no idea where it exactly happened, but the assumption is, that it is related to the Spring Beak, as he drops a Boomerang Orb. Note: The Boomerang-weapon was still rank 1 (only possible to charge up to level 1) despite being a Chakram (which is normally the rank 2 weapon). Later on I farmed the Ninja Masters in order to gain the last Boomerang Orb and went to upgrade the Boomerang as much as possible... And it became a Pole Dart... According to Crow, upgrading other things has some weird and interesting effects. Here's his post: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/secret_of_mana_1190.html#secret_of_mana_1190 Also, I'm going to start TASing Secret of Mana tomorrow for a full week. See how far I can get. My biggest worry are really manipulating the critical hits. I have no idea how to approach this outside of just brute forcing it
Posted: 11/24/2015 2:18 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Quick question to HHS: How does your script for for critical hits? I'm currently trying to pick up SoM for TASing, but the critical hits leave me stumped. I have no clue how those work. Also, is your script compatible with lSNES?
Posted: 11/28/2015 6:45 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
That's interesting. As far as I can tell there's nothing obvious happening that could explain why the boomerang changed into a chakram. The script displays a list of numbers near the top right of the screen. These indicate the positions of upcoming suitable random numbers for giving a critical hit, counting from now. Positions that will actually result in a critical hit will be marked with an "x" in one of 3 columns depending on which enemy will receive the hit. This can change as a result of your own or the enemies' actions. Currently there is no LSNES support.
Posted: 11/28/2015 9:37 PM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
So, little update on both the weird Boomerang glitch and the TAS: Crow mentioned, the variable that determines the Boomerang state actually gets touched during the end screen of the game. I believe it wasn't the first run of the day, so that might be something Also on the TASing: -> Your script is just too amazing/insanely good HHS. My respect, it's fantastic -> But that also means, since I don't really have any means to convert it to LSNES, I've started TASing on SNES9x now I've now reached the Water Palace after ~5 days of TASing. On the 3rd day I started over, switching from LSNES to Snes9X in order to use your script.. But I didn't need to redo much, since I literally hadn't beaten the first Rabite yet. Thanks to (understanding) the crit script, it went A LOT smoother afterwards. A little overview, comparing to touch-me s TAS: Note: I only started to really understand how getting onto/off stairs worked starting in Potos village. I may have lost 1-3 frames earlier to that. C: Current TAS N: New TAS -> Frames gained => --/++ Notes Start: I decided to use the name "TAS" instead of just using "A", which costs some time and also gives me a bit of a different starting setup. I just think it's nice to have a TAS identified as such immediately :) After initial cutscene C: 6231 N: 6337 -> -106 => -106 -- Frames lost due to inputting name "TAS" And it being displayed during textboxes Reaching the next little cutscene on the left C: 6459 N: 6565 -> +0 Frames => -106 Frames total -- 2 Frames lost due to leaving the water frame rules, but touch-me somehow had 2 unnecessary steps in there After little cutscene C: 6644 N: 6756 -> -6 => -112 -- 6 Frames lost due to printing out the name 3 times Reaching the cut-grass cutscene on the right C: 6935 N: 7037 -> +10 => -102 ++ Gained 10 frames moving past the stairs more efficiently Cut-grass cutscene done C: 7054 N: 7157 -> -1 => -103 -- Lost one frame to the name display... One frame?.. Should be 2... Not sure why only 1 Reaching the sword C: 7166 N: 7267 -> +2 => -101 ++ Not sure where I gained the two frames. Probably due to frame rules on getting into the water Sword cutscene C: 10076 N: 10180 -> -3 => -104 -- 12 Frames lost due to longer name ++ 9 Frames gained because of better screen positioning (centering the screen didn't take as long) Leaving to the next screen + Initial textbox C: 10582 N: 10673 -> -91 => +14 ++ 14 Frames gained due to better leaving of the water and slashing down the brushes more optimally (Touch-me didn't know about the slashing frame-rules yet I guess) -- 1 Frame lost due to longer name (Should be 2..) Note, if we ignore the time lost due to the name, overall I technically gained 35 frames already before the first enemy First Rabite screen C: 11573 N: 11857 -> -193 => -284 -- 17 Frames lost on the first Rabite because it's impossible to manipulate a crit within time -> Using 2 slashes -- 1 Frame lost in order to manipulate Rabite spawns in the top right ++ 4 Frames gained due to better movement in the top portion -- 179 Frames lost because I killed 3 additional Rabites (Aiming to get Sword to level 1 before Tropicallo) 2nd Rabite screen C: 12150 N: 12470 -> -36 => -320 -- ~46 frames invested in killing the Rabite before the bridge ++ 10 frames gained due to better movement Reaching the Elder cutscene C: 12576 N: 12898 -> -2 => -322 -- Lost 2 frames to frame rules (Going below with delayed dashing was 1 frame faster than going above like Touch-me though) Mantis Ant intro done C: 15841 N: 16163 -> +0 => -322 -- Should have been 8 frames lost due to the name being mentioned 4 times.. Mantis Ant defeated C: 17974 N: 18134 -> +162 => -160 -- 162 Frames gained due to only needing 5 hits total (=optimal amount of hits) and quicker critical hit manipulation After Victory-Cutscene + Leaving the village C: 20268 N: 20428 -> +0 => -160 -- No frames lost despite the name being called in the after-victory cutscene ++ 4 Frames gained entering the house to better pathing -- No frames lost in the cutscene in the house ++ 5 Frames gained running to the Hippie guy due to bether pathing Through the field to the Water Palace C: 23456 N: 23631 -> -15 => -175 -- Different kill route, I killed 2 Rabites instead of just one Flower, 1 less experience, but better Sword Experience (Only 3 more enemies until the Sword levels up) -- Killed the first Rabite with 2 swings, lined up perfectly for a critical hit on the Rabite after the first bridge -- Manipulated the flower on the left of the river to not spawn, leaving a longer route to run open That's all for now. From what I know, level 1 sword should be saving a lot of time on Tropicallo - Note, I have not tested it yet. But from what I can tell considering the RNG behavior and how limited the influence over it is (mostly waiting), being able to prepare a charge attack should overall reduce the amount of swings required and speed up the killing by a good margin.
Posted: 11/28/2015 10:58 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Oh, I just suddenly realized exactly what happened. The crucial moment was when you took a swing at the Spring Beak and missed. At that time, the difference in your elevation was 59 pixels. Well, it just so happens that this had the effect of setting bit 0 of $7ECC5A, changing it from 0 to 1. What the game is really supposed to do is to try to remember if a character missed, so that the impact sound only plays once per attack. But instead of indexing the character table with the number of the attacking character, it mistakenly uses the difference between your and the boss' altitude in half-pixels. What can be done with this? Well, you could miss the boss with both the boy, the girl and the sprite, at that elevation difference, to get a Shuriken, then forge it and get a Ninja's trump. Now repeat the glitch with every character (assuming there's another suitable boss) to get the Elf Harpoon, and forge it for a Dragon Dart. This can then be changed into the weapon the Rabite has, which is called Bare Head in the menu, by executing the glitch with the girl, or by forging twice more, whichever you prefer. Edit: As for the question of how much it is possible to level up a weapon, this is read from $7ECFB0 + weapon type, and then one is added. But if you are already past that level, you can level it up as much as you want, up to 8:99, which is the maximum. Leveling up the girl's Quill Cap or the sprite's Steel Cap without knowing any of Luna's spells will give you an icon with Luna's graphic in the menu, but it will behave as the next nonempty slot. So if you haven't learned any of Shade's, Lumina's or Dryad's spells, it will start looking at your weapon experience, and show various strange spells with funny summoning animations that sometimes never end.
Posted: 11/29/2015 6:41 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Wow.. This sounds fantastic A few questions: - Can this be done before we have the boomerang? => Thinking of missing the Mantis Ant that exact way instead - Do all 3 characters have to miss the boss at the exact same time? Or can that be staggered? - I assume, the characters change the number from 0 to 7? Like, +1 for the Boy, +2 for the Girl and +3 for the Sprite? - Does the boss have to be hit-able? As in, technically vulnerable? Or would a miss on the Spiky Tiger work as well when he jumps? - Can you see a possible setup where we won't need to forge a weapon and still be able to level it up past level 1? This is really exciting, thank you so much :D Edit: One more question: - Does it specifically change the Boomerang into other things? => If we could change other things like... An item from 0x20 (1 Candy) into 0x27 (1 Flammie Drum) this would have a very interesting effect ^^
Posted: 11/29/2015 11:39 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
You'll need to have got the boomerang first, otherwise the value will be $ff and there's nothing you can do to it. Actually, I spoke too soon regarding those bits, so what I proposed won't work. The bit that is set corresponds to the enemy being attacked, not the character you attack with, so if you want to set higher bits you need to do it using a boss that has multiple parts to it. This glitch works whenever a boss blocks your attacks, making a "bonk" sound when you hit it. I don't remember how Spikey Tiger works, but if you get that sound from hitting him, then you can execute the glitch, assuming that you can get the correct altitude difference. The boss's Z position is at $7EE666 and so on (16 bit, in half pixels), and the player's Z position is at $7EE045 and so on (8 bit, in pixels). So the difference between the boss' Z value and twice the player's Z value must be 118. I don't know of any way to change your normal weapon levels apart from leveling them up, which is limited by the forge level. With glitched weapons, it is often possible to manipulate their level. The boomerang variable is probably the only useful thing that can be reasonably reached with this glitch.
Posted: 11/30/2015 8:25 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
So.. I assume the Spring Beaks "Beak"-hitbox is the bonking sound you refer to? Or maybe his legs? Also - how is it determined which value is affected? It seems oddly specific to have the height difference be exactly 59 pixels (118 half pixels). Or is that just the value that affects the Boomerang? Thank you for that information - that might actually be useful for the TAS if I can enhance the Boomerangs damage slightly
Posted: 11/30/2015 7:53 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
I can't remember where his hitboxes are, but it's the one that blocks your attack if your weapon touches it. The address that is manipulated is calculated by swapping the bytes of the Z difference, multiplying by 2 and adding $e000, then using this as a 16 bit index with $7e005a. So a value of $76 gives $7ecc5a. All other addresses are impossible to reach or do not control anything useful.
Posted: 11/30/2015 9:33 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
By the way, here is a list of the glitched spells you can access by messing with your spell list: Elemental EXCALIBUR Sprite's spells: Steel Cap (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Chest, Enemy Strength: 99 Hit: 43 Element: Earth, Moon MP cost: 43 Elemental MASAMUNE Girl's spells: Golden Tiara (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Chest, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 99 Hit: 47 Element: Air, Water, Moon MP cost: 47 Raccoon Cap (Status spell) Target: Ally Strength: 0 Hit: 47 Element: None Inflict: Stop, Transform, Poison, Burning MP cost: 0 Quilted Hood (Stone saber) Target: Chest, Enemy Strength: 113 Hit: 192 Inflict: Slow, Freeze, Petrify, Confuse, Stop, Mini, Barrel, Transform, Moogle, Burning, Dead MP cost: 0 Sprite's spells: Tiger Cap (Raises hit and evade) Target: Multiple, Ally Strength: 216 Hit: 7 MP cost: 76 Circlet (Raises defense) Target: Multiple, Enemy Strength: 33 Hit: 244 MP cost: 6 Ruby Armet (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Chest, Enemy Strength: 234 Hit: 213 Element: Earth, Light, Moon MP cost: 102 Elemental GIGAS SWORD Girl's spells: Unicorn Helm (Damage spell, also lowers defense) Target: Multiple, Enemy Strength: 225 Hit: 189 Element: Earth, Dark, Light, Mana MP cost: 64 Dragon Helm (Absorbs HP) Target: Chest, Enemy Strength: 58 Hit: 153 Element: Fire, Dark, Light, Mana MP cost: 8 Duck Helm (Ice saber) Target: Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 191 Hit: 126 Inflict: Sleep, Petrify, Confuse, Transform, Moogle MP cost: 101 Sprite's spells: Needle Helm (Status healing spell) Target: Multiple, Enemy Strength: 24 Hit: 101 MP cost: 0 Cockatrice Cap (Healing spell) Target: Ally Strength: 0 Hit: 0 MP cost: 139 Amulet Helm (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 8 Hit: 208 Element: Earth MP cost: 166 Elemental DRAGON BUSTER Girl's spells: Griffin Helm (Damage spell) Target: Chest, Enemy Strength: 93 Hit: 78 Element: Water, Light, Moon MP cost: 157 Faerie Crown (Damage spell) Target: Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 104 Hit: 133 Element: Fire, Light, Mana MP cost: 185 No (Fire saber) Target: Chest, Ally Strength: 8 Hit: 70 Inflict: Hurt bad, Slow, Petrify, Moogle, Burning, Dead MP cost: 70 Sprite's spells: Overalls (Damage spell, also lowers attack) Target: Chest, Mana sword, Ally Strength: 255 Hit: 255 Element: Earth, Air, Water, Fire, Dark, Light, Moon, Mana MP cost: 255 Kung Fu Suit (Damage and status) Target: Multiple, Chest, Enemy Strength: 2 Hit: 9 Element: None Inflict: Hurt, Slow, Confuse, Stop, Mini, Barrel, Transform, Moogle, Poison, Burning, Dead MP cost: 0 Midge Robe (Damage spell) Target: Chest, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 226 Hit: 0 Element: Air, Light, Moon, Mana MP cost: 48 Elemental MANA SWORD Girl's spells: Chain Vest (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Chest, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 134 Hit: 159 Element: Air, Water, Light, Moon, Mana MP cost: 1 Spiky Suit (Status spell) Target: Chest, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 2 Hit: 0 Inflict: Hurt, Hurt bad, Tangled, Sleep, Confuse, Stop, Mini, Barrel, Transform, Moogle, Poison, Burning, Dead MP cost: 106 Kung Fu Dress (Thunder saber) Target: Ally Strength: 4 Hit: 0 Inflict: Hurt, Slow MP cost: 48 Sprite's spells: Fancy Overalls (Status spell) Target: Chest, Enemy Strength: 146 Hit: 224 Element: Water Inflict: Stop, Barrel MP cost: 252 Chest Guard (Analyze) Target: Chest, Enemy MP cost: 134 Golden Vest (Status spell) Target: Ally Strength: 1 Hit: 243 Inflict: Hurt, Hurt bad, Slow, Stop, Barrel MP cost: 133 Elemental WATT'S AXE Girl's spells: Ruby Vest (Absorbs MP) Target: Multiple, Enemy Strength: 228 Hit: 0 Element: None MP cost: 15 Tiger Suit (Lunar magic) Target: Ally Strength: 132 Hit: 159 Element: Earth, Water, Fire, Dark, Light, Moon, Mana MP cost: 76 Tiger Bikini (Moon saber) Target: Chest, Mana sword, Ally Strength: 220 Hit: 128 Inflict: Stop, Mini, Barrel, Transform, Moogle, Poison, Burning, Dead MP cost: 107 Sprite's spells: Magical Armor (Lowers evade, raises attack) Target: Chest, Enemy Strength: 5 Hit: 255 MP cost: 106 Tortoise Mail (Moon energy) Target: Chest, Mana sword, Ally MP cost: 128 Flower Suit (Status spell) Target: Multiple, Chest, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 15 Hit: 255 Inflict: Hurt bad, Slow, Tangled, Sleep, Freeze, Petrify MP cost: 228 Elemental LODE AXE Girl's spells: Battle Suit (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Enemy Strength: 159 Hit: 230 Element: Water MP cost: 132 Vestguard (Mana Magic 1) Target: Multiple, Chest, Ally Strength: 128 Hit: 44 MP cost: 202 Vampire Cape (Revive) Target: Ally Strength: 48 Hit: 128 MP cost: 102 Sprite's spells: Power Suit (Wall) Target: Chest, Mana sword, Enemy MP cost: 139 Faerie Cloak (Mana Magic 2) Target: Multiple, Chest, Mana sword, Enemy Strength: 225 Hit: 226 MP cost: 228 Nothing (Evil gate) Target: Multiple, Chest, Enemy MP cost: 133 Elemental STOUT AXE Girl's spells: Faerie's Ring (Damage spell) Target: Multiple, Ally Strength: 81 Hit: 133 Element: Earth, Air, Water, Fire, Dark, Light, Moon, Mana MP cost: 1 Elbow Pad (Dispel magic) Target: Chest, Ally Strength: 5 Hit: 141 Element: Water, Fire, Dark, Light, Moon, Mana MP cost: 0 Power Wrist (Light saber) Target: Multiple, Enemy Strength: 1 Hit: 5 Inflict: Slow, Mini, Transform, Dead MP cost: 44 Sprite's spells: Cobra Bracelet (Damage spell) Target: Ally Strength: 255 Hit: 6 Element: Air, Fire MP cost: 255 Wolf's Band (Barrier) Target: Ally Strength: 0 Hit: 228 MP cost: 95 All other spells will either crash the game or leave your character in his summoning stance until you leave the screen.
Posted: 12/3/2015 10:49 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Sweet, thank you for this list. To create a short list of enemies that have altitude changes that could be relevant. + Arena-related height difference (No clue whether that's sufficient/relevant, didn't test yet) ° Move-related height difference ° Mantis Ant +° Spiky Tiger + Jabberwocky +° Spring Beak + Ice Gigas + Vampire ° Metal Mantis +° 2nd Spiky Tiger ° Aegrogopilon +° 2nd Spring Beak ° Buffy Now to figure out which "number" the defensive hitbox actually is that is written in the memory value.. Somehow o.o Edit: I just figured out, that we can retain the charge-attacks via multitap-disabling without opening the menu. (If only there was an emulator that supports that kind of input :P ) I'm now wondering whether there is a sequence of inputs with which we could retain the charge-attacks just by switching characters around on the various controllers. For reference, how we do the charge-retainmnents is pretty simple: Controller 1: Charge up by holding B Controller 2: Open menu Controller 1: Release B Controller 2: Close menu Controller 1: Re-Press B before the menu fully closes Another method to retain charge-attacks is -> Have the AI charge up and then press Select to switch to the charging character and then quickly hold B before the attack-animation starts. From what I can tell, the method to this is, that the game realizes, that the original charger released the charge-attack, but at the same time the 2nd check that resets the charge-flag comes in too late and you're already holding B again
Posted: 5/10/2016 1:37 PM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
During my recent 'glitchless' (ironically) I stumbled upon a new glitch that we didn't know about before. Crow managed to catch it's significance when I didn't even think about it. Short version: You can transfer the stats of one weapon and use it with the animation of another weapon Quote from Crow from the SDA forums:
During his new WR "Glitchless" run, Yagamoth discovered a way to temporarily use the stats of one weapon while utilizing the attack animations of a different one. Because "Glitchless." This might have applications in the 1c Spikey Tiger and Blue Spike fights, as well as 2c Spikey Tiger if things go very wrong. Here's the glitch: - Equip the weapon whose animations you want. For example, the Bow. - Cause a character to have numbers appear on top of him. Any color will do; use a Candy, or take damage, or whatever. - Use X to command the character to equip something that nobody currently has equipped. For example, the level 3 Spear. --- Note that the character's weapon is greyed out - you're not supposed to be able to alter his weapon at this time. However, the OTHER weapons can still be selected, and that's the glitch. - Once the numbers fade, you'll apparently still have the original weapon in hand, but its stats are those of the new one. In our example: --- The Bow will be as strong as the level 3 Spear. --- You can charge up the Bow to whatever weapon experience level you have for the Spear. --- Your Arrows will inflict Balloon. --- As you score kills, you gain experience for the Spear. - The effects of this glitch will fade when the game does a "weapon update." This can be triggered by status effects such as Pygmy and Barrel, or by going from an area where your weapons are not out to an area where they are, or by equipping a weapon during a more normal time, or explicitly by certain plot events. Other cases where a character's weapon gets greyed out (say, while a spell animation is playing) do not seem to work for this glitch; only the numbers animation seems to work. (As a side note, changing your weapon as a Saber animation is playing will reliably give you a "fake saber," like what sometimes happens after Frost Gigas.) Along similar lines, in a previous run Yagamoth discovered that you can have the special effects associated with a previous weapon attached to the stats of a newly forged weapon; for example, until a "weapon update" happens, when the Imp's Fork that is forged into the Elf's Harpoon, it retains the ability to inflict the Balloon status.
I wonder whether there are implications we didn't think of yet ^^
Posted: 5/24/2016 6:38 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
So, I have a question: What makes Tropicallo stay above ground when you hit him?
Posted: 7/11/2016 12:07 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Well, it only checks for being hit during certain times, if that is what you mean. That is, when its head is popping out and when it is idle. So, if it is currently throwing a pumpkin, or in the case of Boreal Face, casting a spell, it will not go underground until it is done. It also has a state where it waits for a pumpkin to explode before going underground, but I don't think it can ever happen, as it is only entered when it shoots a pumpkin after it has already been hit, which is impossible. If this state were possible, it would also register hits in this state. Here is a rough description of what Tropicallo does: - Start off as buried - When buried, wait two seconds, then start to rise at one of 3 preset locations selected at random. Boreal Face has its own set of 4 locations to rise from. - When it has risen, wait one second, create the bramblers, then wait one more second, look at the nearest player and start to open. - Two bramblers are created at fixed locations. Tropicallo will only create two, while Boreal Face will continue to recreate dead bramblers. The second brambler is bugged, and its position will be set based on the currently depressed buttons on controllers 1 and 2, most likely far off screen. It is placed as intended for Tropicallo when no buttons are held. - After opening, have the head pop out - As the head is popping out, check for hits, and after half a second, start attacking - While getting ready to attack, check for hits. When at full stamina, target the nearest player. Tropicallo will always throw a pumpkin, while Boreal Face has a 1/3 chance of casting a spell if the player is more than 6 tiles away. - The fight ends when it tries to performs an attack after it is dead. - Throwing a pumpkin: The pumpkin appears after 1/4 of a second. When the animation finishes, it starts to get ready for the next attack. However, it is also seemingly supposed to close up if it has been hit (during Tropicallo's first cycle, and always for Boreal Face), after the pumpkin explodes, but I don't see how this can ever happen, since it would already have started to descend in that case. - It takes two seconds to cast a spell. If it has half or less HP remaining, it will cast cure on itself, burst on all players, or sleep flower on all players. Otherwise, if the targeted player has a status ailment, it will case cure or burst. Otherwise, it will cast burst or sleep flower. It then gets ready for the next attack. - When hit, the head will jump and it then starts to close up. If it was dead, the fight will end (although, I don't think it's possible to hit it while it is dead). - After it has closed, it starts to bury itself. - After this, the cycle starts again.
Posted: 8/6/2016 7:21 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Fun fact: Originally, the Mana Beast was supposed to cast Defense Up, Lunar Boost, Speed up or Lucid Barrier on itself after it casts Wall. But due to a programming error, this doesn't happen. Edit: And also, if you hit him with a spell as he is attacking you from the right, his X coordinate will wrap and you'll have to wait for more than two minutes for him to return.
Posted: 8/8/2016 5:54 AM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Oh wow... That's how it happened? I've done the 2 minutes wait before on my Sprite solo challenge ^^... https://youtu.be/av3TtkKBcf0 It's interesting - I wonder whether they realized the buffs wouldn't work out when the Mana Beast has Wall status with the self buffs (Kind of like Mech Rider III actually behaves) and just decided to make the portion of the code invalid that would execute them
Posted: 10/28/2017 5:59 PM
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neo_omegon
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Any progress, Yagamoth? Sorry if this trick is known well, but according to this video around 3:00-, Minotaur can be skipped. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30763405
Posted: 10/29/2017 2:27 PM
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Yagamoth
Joined: 4/1/2010
Posts: 90
Wow... No, I did not know about that o_o Fascinating.. I'll need to look into this. Also - no, there is no progress so far on the TAS, sorry q-q lrighty... Let's go through the Minorous skip step by step. What we may need to consider: 0) It's the Japanese version, which has some trouble with event-disowning happening by accident after bosses. However, this doesn't necessarily have to be relevant to be specifically the Japanese version. But it could 1) He specifically switched his main character to the Sprite before the Undine Orb room 2) Casts Freeze on the orb inside the room, then switches to the lady and casts a 2nd Freeze.. 3) Then immediately after channeling the 2nd freeze, he replenishes the Sprite MP with a Faerie Walnut 4) Afterwards he steps on the event-switch to make the stairway appear with the girl 5) Then he switches to the Sprite and goes into the room... It's interesting that the Sprite actually started charging up his weapon for a brief instant there.. But that may just have been an AI weapon charge flag set still 6) Then somehow the beginning of the battle arena intro doesn't play, and they run through to the screen... The arena never gets locked up or the boss battle initiated Either way, I have no clue how that could happen. From what I understand, he basically skipped the arena-closing-event somehow
Posted: 10/30/2017 12:17 PM
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neo_omegon
Player (159)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
No need to be in haste, Yagamoth. I enjoy your YouTube channel. I don't have a YouTube channel currently, so I say this here. Thanks!
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