Topic by ventuz

Posted: 3/17/2005 4:45 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

hooray! about the Tropicalo fight, do you think hit twice at the start would end fight quicker? About sprite weapon, how bout changing it to axe as a primary weapon? then the girl to get whip as a primary weapon, is it faster or no? (scratch that idea if you goin to use boomerang / gloves heavily instead of spells) *edited typo*

Posted: 3/17/2005 5:34 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Wow, you sure showed those werewolves, plus that was a pretty funny bug with their skeletons. It's amazing how much stronger you're able to make the characters seem than they normally would be. I guess the Tropicalo fight just looks so improveable in comparison to the other fights (but I'll take your word for it if you're sure it isn't improveable). Also, I hope you're able to do some cool stuff with the 3-playerness of the game. Like controlling them separately in battles, taking turns killing monsters with criticals while the other characters run by, etc.

Posted: 3/17/2005 1:57 PM

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Zer0

Former player

Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria

about the Tropicalo fight, do you think hit twice at the start would end fight quicker?

I tried, the "diving thing" occurs if I do this.

About sprite weapon, how bout changing it to axe as a primary weapon? then the girl to get whip as a primary weapon, is it faster or no? (scratch that idea if you goin to use boomerang / gloves heavily instead of spells)

Yes I'm going to equip them that way (Sprite - Axe, Girl -Whip)

Wow, you sure showed those werewolves, plus that was a pretty funny bug with their skeletons. It's amazing how much stronger you're able to make the characters seem than they normally would be. I guess the Tropicalo fight just looks so improveable in comparison to the other fights (but I'll take your word for it if you're sure it isn't improveable).

Oh yes, the game looks pretty easy in the movie and that with very low level considered the level you would be when normaly playing. I tried to rush through the game like I do in the movie with normal playing, that's hard, just one hit from an enemy can be enough to take you out. I must say the creating of this movie is also a real training for me for the game, I memorized all the maps and where to sprint. And yes, the Tropicalo fight may really no be the best fight but I really tried everything and he's not significantly faster to beat (unless you get more critical hits, but I really tried very much and couldn't get more than one)

Also, I hope you're able to do some cool stuff with the 3-playerness of the game. Like controlling them separately in battles, taking turns killing monsters with criticals while the other characters run by, etc.

Yes I'll have some fun with the 3 players :D

Posted: 3/17/2005 2:15 PM

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

I saw the movie, and I wonder about the party AI. In some spots, the computer characters get stuck and slow you down. Maybe by changing their AI settings, you can make them "stick" less to the monsters and follow you more? It'd be something to experiment with. I had my characters set to aggressive most of the time, with a distance setting appropriate for their weapon. If an AI character gets too aggressive and risks injury, I'd just quickly hit select and move them out of the way. I'd also hit select to move them out of engagement range, if they wouldn't leave a monster alone. I got pretty good at it too. On some occassions, I'd join in player 2 just to keep both AIs away, while the hero went solo. Having two computer characters follow you in a line is very difficult. The last one always seems to get stuck somewhere. You'll definately need two players at some points to better navigate your party. Or, you might be able to just leave one dead. Who cares about healing magic anyway? In some areas, you have nothing but a staircase to travel on. Even though you can't constantly dash on the stairs, the characters do for a very short time. Would dashing save a few frames there?

Posted: 3/17/2005 6:28 PM

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Zer0

Former player

Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria

I saw the movie, and I wonder about the party AI. In some spots, the computer characters get stuck and slow you down. Maybe by changing their AI settings, you can make them "stick" less to the monsters and follow you more? It'd be something to experiment with.

I played a lot with the settings and I came to the conclusion that it's best to just use the default AI settings

In some areas, you have nothing but a staircase to travel on. Even though you can't constantly dash on the stairs, the characters do for a very short time. Would dashing save a few frames there?

I dunno, doesn't seem to me as if dashing does anything on the stairs but I'll check

Posted: 3/23/2005 3:17 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

I just remembered a rare odd glitch on an actually console when I played on it long ago. When you get Sprite, he started out alot duplication of beginning green cape (it was full inventory of it). I don't have any idea how to do it, I just remembered that I named the sprite "ANT" and looked up the inventory, whoa what just happened?.. I tried the same name "ANT", it didn't happen again. If this glitch actually used in the run, you could have a few more cash to spend if you sell it all. It's something to look up for... (I could play around with savestate before dwarf cave on emu, but im having trouble with configuring control)

Posted: 3/23/2005 3:37 AM

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Zer0

Former player

Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria

ventuz wrote:

I just remembered a rare odd glitch on an actually console when I played on it long ago. When you get Sprite, he started out alot duplication of beginning green cape (it was full inventory of it). I don't have any idea how to do it, I just remembered that I named the sprite "ANT" and looked up the inventory, whoa what just happened?.. I tried the same name "ANT", it didn't happen again. If this glitch actually used in the run, you could have a few more cash to spend if you sell it all. It's something to look up for... (I could play around with savestate before dwarf cave on emu, but im having trouble with configuring control)

Thank you, I'll test a little bit around when I've got time

Posted: 3/24/2005 11:19 AM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

I remember another glitch when I played on console. I was playing through the sewers where you need the password to enter. There are some enemies that turns your character into a snow man. Can't remember if it was the girl or the sprite that was turned into a snow man. But anyways. As I was about to exit the sewer one of the two was frozen. When the next screen appeared, the character was gone. Never got it back. :D Kinda cool to be that late in the game with only two characters. I don't think there will be any use of this glitch, if someone can pull it off again. I have tried to re-make it but with out success.

Posted: 3/24/2005 2:43 PM

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georgexi

Player (80)

Joined: 7/22/2004
Posts: 63
Location: USA

Highness wrote:

I remember another glitch when I played on console. I was playing through the sewers where you need the password to enter. There are some enemies that turns your character into a snow man. Can't remember if it was the girl or the sprite that was turned into a snow man. But anyways. As I was about to exit the sewer one of the two was frozen. When the next screen appeared, the character was gone. Never got it back. :D Kinda cool to be that late in the game with only two characters. I don't think there will be any use of this glitch, if someone can pull it off again. I have tried to re-make it but with out success.

i had a similar thing happen to a friend of mine. he asked me how to get the girl back because she died and then mysteriously "vanished". i thought he was being an idiot and told him to just revive her. but he showed me his save file where he was in pure lands and sure enough... there were only two characters. the girl was completely gone. didnt even have a status bar at the bottom. not a useful glitch but still funny.

Posted: 3/25/2005 5:23 AM

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TheAxeMan

Ambassador, Experienced player (696)

Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE

sure enough... there were only two characters.

I can vouch that this is possible as well. I remember it happening at some point in the sewer dungeon, though I didn't save afterwards. Probably not useful though. Among other problems, would you be able to create the mana sword at the end?

Posted: 3/25/2005 4:13 PM

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Unknown_User

Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716

It's always possible to do the mana sword glitch (extra sword orb that makes your sword stay in mana form), but I'm not sure if it stays in mana form for the last boss, or if it would even be allowed as a glitch at this site. For those who don't know the glitch: After you've completed the Pure Lands and are about to tackle the Mana Fortress, use Flammie to fly to the Icelands, and by the left side of the land theres a bunch of tiny island that look impossible to land on. However, it IS possible to land on one, and there you'll find Neko. Save at him, and than do a soft reset. Load the game with the save you just made and you'll be back at Potos village. It's exactly like the beginning of the game again, and once you kill the Mantis ant for a second time, he'll drop a ninth sword orb, which you can then upgrade to the Mana sword (Most powerful item in the game. I'm pretty sure the ATK power is over 200). Once you've got the orb, use Flammie to get out of Potos and continue on the game as normal.

Posted: 3/25/2005 5:58 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Nope, it won't (sort of).. I tried the 9th sword orb trick a few years back. Although the lv9 sword is called the "Mana Sword", it still won't do more than 1 damage to the last boss without mana magic cast on it.

Posted: 3/25/2005 7:20 PM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

Tilus wrote:

Nope, it won't (sort of).. I tried the 9th sword orb trick a few years back. Although the lv9 sword is called the "Mana Sword", it still won't do more than 1 damage to the last boss without mana magic cast on it.

Not entirely correct. It's true that you will do 0 damage with a regular attack, but if you charge it up, you can do significant amounts of damage. Even something like 500 is possible if your level is high enough. A critical hit works well too.

Posted: 3/25/2005 7:25 PM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

I wasn't able to reproduce duplication Midge Robe glitch (green cape thing). I think it's some kind of power-on screw up. Something I have digged up could be useful (wasn't tested myself) Power Bonus - (reset code in manual i think..) This trick allows your characters to permanently have super strength, speed, defense, or any other power from the girl's magic menu. Simply cast the spell of your choice on any single character, sleep at the Inn and immediately save your game. Restart, and the next time the game is loaded, your character will have that power permanently. You can do this with as many power spells as you like, but some spells may interfere with others and cause previous powers to disapear. Nevertheless, this trick is great for if your character is already at its maximum power level and you aren't satisfied with his skills. Permanent Weapon Powers - (reset code in manual i think..) Like the trick above, but gives the power to a weapon instead. Cast a spell on a single character equiped with the weapon of your choice, and simply go to the weapon selection menu and switch the powered-up weapon with a non- powered up weapon equipped to someone else. Try casting Lunar on the sword for constant HP regeneration. Multiple Weapon Orbs Have one of character pick up treasure chest that contains weapon Orb (can't be boss / regular items), switch to other character keep pressing attack button near treasure chest. http://www.planetnintendo.com/secretofmana/secrets.html http://mmxz.zophar.net/rpg/mana/secrets/secrets.html http://www.flyingomelette.com/oddities/oddities25.html

Posted: 3/27/2005 8:22 PM

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Seiken

Joined: 3/27/2005
Posts: 37

Secret of Mana - PAL - French - On SNES ( not emulation ) I can finish this game under 7 H, perhaps 6H30. I needs tricks for a better time with this boss : Dark Lich.

Posted: 3/27/2005 9:36 PM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

Lunar Beam is best way to kill it.. isn't it?

Posted: 3/28/2005 1:38 AM

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

There are two problems with Lunar beam- it costs 8 mana, and it will be at level 0. This means the beam itself will do very little damage for the menu time required, and the lower level girl won't have enough mana to deal good damage. In a speedrun like this, it's far better to pick one or two schools of magic and level them up as much as possible. Some recommendations: - Use light saber instead, for the extra damage and boss weakness. A level 0-1 saber won't have many attacks on it, so apply it before charge attacks. You can likely get more damage out of the saber than the light beam. - Lumina magic is acquired around the same time as Lunar magic. Moon energy gives 100% critical strikes, so it will be essential to use. IIRC, Critical strikes double your damage before enemy armor is applied. - Bosses that are weak against Lumina, also take significant damage from Salamando. Salamando is useful against lots of bosses, so it may be better to use that instead.

Posted: 3/28/2005 6:50 AM

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TheAxeMan

Ambassador, Experienced player (696)

Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE

Personally, I don't mind if the Dark Lich fight takes some time because his music is so badass. :) But right, I don't know if direct damage magic will ever be useful in this run, it just takes much longer than whacking with weapons. Especially Lucent beam which takes way to much MP. The saber spells might be useful though, and I've gotta imagine there will definitely be some moon magic buffing.

Posted: 4/13/2005 10:06 AM

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Seiken

Joined: 3/27/2005
Posts: 37

Well thanks for all your conseils =) Finally i use undine for dark lich because it's my highest level and i used before that undine for all the boss who haven't weakness ^^ And "fireball" of salamando is a too long animation : you must wait the end of animation before to do new "fireballs". It's bad for to spam the boss. And i use always magic for the boss, with sword it's too long. Finally i can finish this game under 6h20 ^^ I will be perharps able to record it in the nexts days ^^

Posted: 4/13/2005 11:38 AM

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

Don't forget that the girl also has offensive salamando magic. Her spells decrease enemy stats as well. It may be helpful in dealing more damage in a short time.

Posted: 4/13/2005 2:17 PM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

About the fireballs. They will be quicker if you spawn salamando inside the enemy. Just stand next to them.

Posted: 4/15/2005 7:53 AM

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mazzeneko

Former player

Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Kuopio, Finland

Yeah, it's faster that way. But you cannot stack the damage with fireballs... :T But it really doesn't matter if you attack while casting with the boy... or something like that

- mazzeneko

Posted: 4/15/2005 7:59 AM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

Well.. You could stack it if the girl casts her magic too. But then again. The girl can stack Salamando on her own I think. Otherwise you could always use explosion instead of fireballs. That is stackable I think.

Posted: 4/16/2005 10:54 AM

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Seiken

Joined: 3/27/2005
Posts: 37

Yes you're right for "fireballs" but it's for me too hard and too dangerous in my speed run ^^ Undine is easier for me ^^ But now magic isn't a matter for me don't worry about ^^ The other others attacks of salamando cost 3 and 4 PM it's too for me. My new record is actually 6h15 ( played alone and not including the credits but including the introduction ). I have finished secret of mana more 200 times since my chilhood but i don't know if salamando of the girl decrease ennemis stats, i know just ennemis burn ??

Posted: 4/16/2005 11:52 PM

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

The girl's Fire Boquet magic reduces enemy attack power. That won't be useful in a speedrun like this. I guess you'll have to see if the girl's limited offensive magic will help or not. After all, two casters could be better than one.