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Posted: 7/21/2004 10:26 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Darn. Good luck.
Posted: 7/21/2004 10:31 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I agree with Blechy. I think BobWhoops played the map 32 a bit worse than Blechy (there was delay between the ink cloud and the girl), and there was less accelerated horizontal motion in the same level than Blechy had. Also I'm not certain but it looked like the second part of the last level was slower than in Blechy's movie. It started faster though. Ps: You left the submission description blank. Don't do that.
Posted: 7/21/2004 10:35 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
I'm guessing that you meant 52. Anyway, what should have I put in submission description? "Faster than other movie"? So, I guess that I will also redo it.
Posted: 7/21/2004 10:37 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Bob Whoops wrote:
Anyway, what should have I put in submission description? "Faster than other movie"?
Even that's better than nothing. "Faster than other movie" saves us from having to check whether it is faster. Don't assume we remember all the movies of the site and their lengths :) Edit: And I meant indeed 52.
Posted: 7/22/2004 3:33 AM
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Blechy
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Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I definitely don't think it will get much faster than the newest version, I guess next up is the longer runs, I know bob is working on one.
Posted: 7/22/2004 4:16 PM
Post subject: Route question, hints request
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
In the 2nd to last map in the movie, why do you go past the 1st platform, over to the one near the 1-up? It looks like it would be faster to just take the first one up to the door. That you don't, I guess that it is not, but could you please explain it? For playing the game on my own, I have played through most of the easy routes and am now attempting the harder ones. I am stuck at 15 and 29. Does anyone have any hints? How do you get past that small ledge in 15? I am guessing that 29 is all about speed, which I don't quite have yet. Has anyone figured out where 28 is?
Posted: 7/22/2004 9:14 PM
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flagitious
Player (200)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
They don't take the first platform because it is a while before it moves down enough to get through, you can tell this from the video because by the time they go all the way around and back it is just then starting to go down. I don't really know enough about this game to answer the other questions you had.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 7/23/2004 12:02 AM
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Blechy
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Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
the ledges in the second to last level are not timed- they lower only when you put your weight on them(like the ledges in field 11). But, even if you put your weight on that first ledge, you cannot squeeze through the space between the ledge and the corner right above it. For information(and a map) on how to get to field 28, see the umihara page at http://tasvideos.org/UmiharaKawaseFieldMap.html
Posted: 7/23/2004 5:32 PM
Post subject: Field 28
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
Thanks for the tip about waiting. It worked. I beat each map when the clock hit 0. I didn't notice that part last time I looked at that page. I got to map 23. I went through the door and got to 28. Also, the door from the sea horse boss went to 55. Do you know if there is anything that decides which final area you go to? It looks like the final area was of the same type of the one I was currently in from that too small sample.
Posted: 7/23/2004 6:48 PM
Post subject: 30 minute warp
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
After trying it some more (wow, am I glad for fast forward) It looks like most doors go to 28. Maybe it is something like it takes you to the end of your current path, or if there are multiple ends, it takes you to 28.
Posted: 7/23/2004 7:51 PM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I never heard of this game before but I just watched the latest time attack. It's awesome. Bisqwit, I took your advice and played it a little by myself, and I couldn't even make it to the first door. This really makes me wish they had made a Bionic Commando sequel.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 7/23/2004 10:26 PM
Post subject: Verified that other fields don't exist
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
Just to be sure that the other fields don't exist, I figured out the save format. I editted the saved movies and set them to the different maps. I can post what I figured out about the save format, if anyone is interested. Here are the values that it uses for the map number: 
Value Field
00    00
01    01
02    02
03    03
04    04
27    05
06    06
07    07
08    08
05    10
09    11
0C    12
0A    14
0B    15
37    16
0D    17
14    18
0E    20
0F    21
10    22
33    23
25    24
3D    25
12    26
34    28
38    29
1C    30
32    31
31    33
2C    34
26    35
3F    36
35    37
16    38
3B    40
36    41
2B    42
2E    43
24    45
39    46
29    47
28    48
3C    49
2D    50
3A    51
2A    52
30    55
3E    56
2F    57
So, no map 9.
Posted: 7/24/2004 12:08 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I'm not quite sure what that table signifies, would you mind explaining it a bit? Especially since level 9 is not the only one we're curious. If you can understand from that table how to access the other levels we're not sure on(mentioned on the site's umihara kawase website) that'd be wonderful. Also in watching the video I noticed that that first elevator that was previously mentioned is indeed affected by time rather than pulling it down. But regardless, you cannot fit through.
Posted: 7/24/2004 12:28 AM
Post subject: Re: Verified that other fields don't exist
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
scubed wrote:
Here are the values that it uses for the map number: <...> So, no map 9.
These values were missing from the list: $11 $13 $15 $17 $18 $19 $1A $1B $1D $1E $1F $20 $21 $22 $23 Are you sure they aren't assigned?
Posted: 7/24/2004 12:33 AM
Post subject: Table explanation
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
The table shows what internal values in the game correspond to which "fields". I experimented on the save file and typed in different values for the field that it was supposed to be a movie of. This, of course, is on the assumption that you can record movies of playing on any field. I tried all values from 0 to 40, and got the chart that you see above. The values not listed do not correspond to maps. The game checks for error conditions in this case, and will direct to field 00. For other values above 40, I only tried a few. They all froze the game or showed gibberish. (So they were not valid map data). So, this list should be a complete list of all maps that exist. So, it is confirmed that there is no map 9 (nor the other ones), it is not just that you haven't figured out how to reach it. You don't have to be not sure anymore. You can repeat the experiment by trying those numbers or other ones to see what maps do (not) exist. This list agrees with the one on the website in that those maps don't exist. While playing today, I tried the first elevator, and found that you can't squeeze through. Sorry for missing that. From the above list, I can edit the save game to show that particular field. (So, now I have seen 40 and 35, although I still can't seem to get there on my own.) Hints would be appreciated!
Posted: 7/24/2004 12:48 AM
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Blechy
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Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I'd prefer you bring it up to not doing so, regardless of whether you've checked for yourself. http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~umikawa/2_field.html if you scroll down to level 15, you can see a series of pictures illustrating apparently the best way to get there. But even with that assistance, when I first tried I just couldn't do it. Definitely tricky, and would be extremely frustrating in a time attack.
Posted: 7/24/2004 1:27 AM
Post subject: Beat!
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scubed
Former player
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 155
Thanks for the link. I have finally beaten all 4 final maps. The only 2 I haven't beaten yet is 29 and 34. 29 is just a matter of speed, right?
Posted: 7/24/2004 2:55 AM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Very nice job. However, I saw a few places where you could have gone faster. My question to Bisqwit though, is how much faster do I have to make it to replace Blechy's movie? I think that my movie will be at most 1-2 seconds faster. Is this enough? I'm assuming that both movies are of equal entertainment value.
Posted: 7/28/2004 10:45 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Well, I improved the first 4 levels to be one time unit faster. Its a little more than a second faster after the first 6 levels.
Posted: 7/28/2004 10:57 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Bob Whoops wrote:
I think that my movie will be at most 1-2 seconds faster. Is this enough? I'm assuming that both movies are of equal entertainment value.
Sounds ok for me, for the following reasons: - The movie is short, thus the improvement is not that small taking the scale into account - Entertainment won't suffer - This seems to be a speed competition.
Posted: 7/28/2004 11:14 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Bisqwit wrote:
- This seems to be a speed competition.
By the way, if anyone wants to, speed runs to each door in each Field would be nice (just save the run or runs you make and post your SRM file somewhere), both tool-assisted and clean. Meanwhile, I'll get back to adding Field info. Does anyone need an instructions sheet? Like, what all the menus do and stuff? I could drop that on the Wiki pretty quick if its needed.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 8/11/2004 10:07 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Yay! Its done. I shaved off 2 seconds. If you do beat this one(I don't see how its possible though), I will give up. I can not see any major improvements being made now. Too bad we probably won't be seeing a sub 2 minute run :(
Posted: 8/12/2004 7:16 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Well, I guess I will start the long run now(why do I keep on putting off finished my zelda swordless run :( ). I will do levels 0-17 now. Then, I will decide what path to take. Are you going to make one, Blechy? BTW, how do you make the maps of the fields? Do you just move around the stage and take snapshots, then paste them together using some picture editor?
Posted: 8/13/2004 7:03 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (278)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
That's what I did for Eggerland, but I imagine it was a little trickier than that for this game...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 8/13/2004 7:06 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I'm not planning on doing any umihara runs(or probably any others) any time soon, but if you need any help I'd be glad to. It was sort of a fad for me, heh, which I guess is why there haven't been any new maps in a long time. But yes, I took screenshots and put them together in photoshop. Good job on the run by the way.
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