Done. I do not like this run as much as the other one, mostly because of the two bosses, but also because most of the levels did not have major shortcuts. Also, there were several narrow passagways I had to climb up, which is very slow.
I dunno if this fits in here.., theres U + D glitch with ladder with new zeldafix patched snes9x.. if you get that girl on ladder, use U + D on it, she climb down thru ground. Would it improve speed in any way?
Hey guys, I just thought I'd make a comment or two here since this is a game I'm addicted to as well.
1) I don't know if everyone knows but there's another way you can speedrun the game that isn't just a different route. It's somewhat commonly known that there's some weird time-out thing that takes you to level 28. But there's a 5 minute game mode which sort of does the same thing. At the title screen press select 100 times and then up to start game.
2) I'm CERTAIN that there's a faster way to beat the first level... if I ever get around to attempting it myself I will show y'all.
3) I'm in the middle of writing a walkthrough for the game since I don't know of one, but I'm not really as into it anymore. If anyone would love to take it over or give me a hand or something please get in contact with me.
Peace.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Less Ashamed Of Self wrote:
1) ...there's a 5 minute game mode...
This would be stupid. The fastest completion is under two minutes, so this doesn't help. A run using this code could simply kill five minutes between the first few levels, go into a door and then take on the end level. Anything besides the fastest possible run for this game should purely be for show, and a pretty sweet show at that (I love the Bob's route run.) So why cut the show short at 5 minutes?
Less Ashamed Of Self wrote:
2) I'm CERTAIN that there's a faster way to beat the first level...
Could you elaborate? Vatchern may or may not have seen it.
Heh.. I cant even remember why i stopped doing this.. I think it was either I found it really hard to do, or 6 frames didn't really matter that much to me.
But there's a 5 minute game mode which sort of does the same thing. At the title screen press select 100 times and then up to start game.
So what does this code unlock? Does it cause the 30 minute rule to be in effect from the beginning?
I suppose it is the 30-minute rule only shortened to 5.
TheAxeMan wrote:
Less Ashamed Of Self wrote:
1) ...there's a 5 minute game mode...
This would be stupid. The fastest completion is under two minutes, so this doesn't help. A run using this code could simply kill five minutes between the first few levels, go into a door and then take on the end level. Anything besides the fastest possible run for this game should purely be for show, and a pretty sweet show at that (I love the Bob's route run.) So why cut the show short at 5 minutes?
Well, you'd have 5 minutes to do whatever impressive thing you want... then beat the levels left as fast as possible. It could still be plentifully amusing. Especially since level 28 is still untouched by the VG speedrun world.
Less Ashamed Of Self wrote:
2) I'm CERTAIN that there's a faster way to beat the first level...
Could you elaborate? Vatchern may or may not have seen it.
I think if you do it the way the other two have done it, but then shoot diagonally up right from where the ground slopes near the first fish, and swing up and around... possibley twice... it MIGHT be faster but I haven't REALLY tried.
I think it was either I found it really hard to do
True that. Very difficult game to speedrun, not because of luck manipulation or anything like that, but because of how sensitive the grappling hook is.
I think if you do it the way the other two have done it, but then shoot diagonally up right from where the ground slopes near the first fish, and swing up and around... possibley twice... it MIGHT be faster but I haven't REALLY tried.
http://tasvideos.org/UmiharaKawaseField00.html
I took this into consideration. For those unclear, he means to skip the last ladder completely, instead using the momentum from the conveyor belt to swing yourself clockwise around the Utah-shaped block. Firstly, I don't think you could get enough momentum vertically to be able to do this without hitting the platform to the left of Utah and still clearing the top of Utah. And if you could, I still don't think it'd be faster. But, welcome to try.
I encourage more speedruns of this game. I'm probably done with it, but it really is such an incredible game, and I'm glad it was ever brought up on these forums.
Edit: Should you attempt this undertaking, I suggest creating landmarks within each level, not just between. The easiest landmarks for me were the easily detected animations, such as reaching the top of an edge or ladder. However, I also used things such as the frame in which the hook attached to something, or landing on a certain platform.
I think it was either I found it really hard to do
True that. Very difficult game to speedrun, not because of luck manipulation or anything like that, but because of how sensitive the grappling hook is.
I think if you do it the way the other two have done it, but then shoot diagonally up right from where the ground slopes near the first fish, and swing up and around... possibley twice... it MIGHT be faster but I haven't REALLY tried.
http://tasvideos.org/UmiharaKawaseField00.html
I took this into consideration. For those unclear, he means to skip the last ladder completely, instead using the momentum from the conveyor belt to swing yourself clockwise around the Utah-shaped block. Firstly, I don't think you could get enough momentum vertically to be able to do this without hitting the platform to the left of Utah and still clearing the top of Utah. And if you could, I still don't think it'd be faster. But, welcome to try.
I encourage more speedruns of this game. I'm probably done with it, but it really is such an incredible game, and I'm glad it was ever brought up on these forums.
Yes and no... I was talking about maybe going around without using the ladder... but the part that might cut the time down is hitting the corner of the blue block up-right from the blue block.
If no one seems to follow I'm going to have to do it. My talking about it is wearing thin. ;)
BTW... very cool to talk to you about it Blechy.
If you press up+down while on a ladder you will climb downwards, and when you get to the ground, you will continue to climb though the ground. This is could be useful in theory, but I don't see anywhere to use it at least in the 2 min route.
Here are some memory locations that are of some use (go to Cheats -> Search for new Cheats to setup watches for these):
7e0404,2u x pos
7e0406,2u y pos
7e0408,2s x speed
7e040a,2s y speed
7e0604,1s rope length
7e0602,1u rope length with stretch
With these it's easy to determine game physics, but they are pretty much what you'd expect so there is no need to post 'em.
Well its been a while since playing this. Recently I was thinking about it and saw this video at youtube. It beats field 11 in roughly the same speed as in my TAS by uses a completely different method. The important thing to note is that while climbing up on the final block it starts to move up again. This happens when the hook is being stretched upwards while climbing.
I played around with it and I think a similar strategy can be used to beat this field a little faster, so I am going to give this game a go again. I won't be spending as much time per day as in past TASes but I'll be posting progress and asking ideas from anyone who is interested.
I was googling just now and I came across this site in japanese that has a ton of tricks, but googles translator isn't as much of a help as one would hope. The moveable floor pulling up trick is included there so it must be good :). Alot of the tricks look more for fun than practical but I'll study them more later.
Another trick listed there is pressing select 100 times at the start menu to turn the 30 minute rule into a 5 minute rule. This could be cool for a long route. I'm not very familiar with the 30 minute rule though, does it just give you a chance of warping to an exit room from each exit? Or can it warp you to other fields too? That could make doing a 100% completion possible.
Edit: after reading back I notice, that the 100 select thing and the Up+Down on ladder was already known, sorry about that. Also I'm pretty sure the 30 min rule can only take you to an exit level. It might be useful to skip maybe the last boss fight in a long route.
Here's the update. Finished field 0 22 frames faster than before. About 6 were from improved precision during the first half of the level, the rest due to a different method for the finish.
smv or see at youtube
Edit: forgot to mention that it is possible (previously thought impossible) to make the hook go high enough to hit that one ceiling at the beginning, but it turned out to be slower. smv
Also before I move on, does anyone have any suggestions for F0 or F1 (or any field for that matter)?
New route for field 0, 47 frames faster than the old, saving 2 time units (69 frames) from previously published version!!
smv or youtube
Moving onto field 1 but I'll probably take a break first. I don't think there will be anything dramatic in field 1, but I'll try...
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I have a bit of web space as well, but for times like this I tend to use Microstorage. ;)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
18544 rerecords for 1023 frames? Holy shit, now that's a rerecord/frame ratio! I'm pretty eager to see what improvements you will find in the later stages, so keep up the good work. :)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
The high rerecord count is mostly because I started from the same smv as old run which was in the 12,000s. Once I had optimized the new route, I probably spent over 1000 more rerecords to save 1 more frame, ridiculous I know, but that was all I needed to save an additional time unit.
In field 1 I think I have a new strategy as well, I expect it to save about 20 frames when optimized, but if it's close I'll have to play using the old method, to make sure that doesn't improve enough to still be better. I'll post when its optimized.
Minor discovery today, you can use left+right/up+down to help move when shooting. This might help miniscule amounts later, but there is no place it would have been benificial in field 0. Example use: if you press left+right+up+y it will shoot up, but you will move left.
Here is field 1 in smv.
It is 29 frames (105 total) faster than the previous published movie. I lost 2 frames in the transition to field 1, I think due to lag, I'll have to investigate. Also I suffered a few frames of lag due to monsters spawning on the screen. I'll look into luck manipulation to avoid that, but I think it is not based on luck.
The new method after the ladder was 2 frames faster than previous movie, the other 27 come from the major change in the beginning to middle.
