<BoltR> So far his points aren't good ones :/
<BoltR> As Super Metroid was articifial difficulty in that snese too
<BoltR> And the game had a minimap with a compass
<BoltR> And the rooms did look different
<BoltR> As different as they did in Super Metroid anyways
<BoltR> And you have a crappy field of vision in all FPS
<BoltR> You could turn the visor off
<BoltR> If you bothered to goto the settings menu
<BoltR> There were only a few rooms that I found I couldn't see in
<BoltR> And those were ones that were suppose to be pitch black
Edit: Maybe your TV is too dark, making it brighter would probably fix the game being too dark and all the rooms looking the same in one foul swoop. Two birds with one stone.
<BoltR> Too much shit on the screen
<BoltR> again
<BoltR> You could turn that off
<BoltR> Controls, I guess so... (I didn't mind them that much, but that might just be me)
I expected more of you JXQ :( Though I suppose I actually read through it all, so it wasn't a total waste.
I will agree with you though; they should make a 2D Metroid for a console. I don't like the 3D ones as much.
<BoltR> As Super Metroid was articifial difficulty in that snese too
example? The sense I referred to in Metroid Prime was the feeling of "hey, let's make a new weapon and figure out why it's needed later!" I dont have that feeling in Super Metroid, it's much more seamless.
<BoltR> And the game had a minimap with a compass
Right, I referred several times that I had to keep checking said map to make sure I wasn't getting turned around. Once you have memorized the whole game, this becomes a non-issue, so if you know the game well, you may need to think of it from a different perspective.
<BoltR> And the rooms did look different
<BoltR> As different as they did in Super Metroid anyways
Disagree
<BoltR> And you have a crappy field of vision in all FPS
I dont have the cramped feeling when playing other FPS's, nor do I recall a screen stretched to make the field of vision smaller than it should appear to be. And, this makes Metroid Prime better how?
<BoltR> You could turn the visor off
<BoltR> If you bothered to goto the settings menu
You could see that I commented on that, if you bothered to read the whole thing.
<BoltR> There were only a few rooms that I found I couldn't see in
<BoltR> And those were ones that were suppose to be pitch black
Brightness on my TV was turned up sufficiently (I did think of trying that)
<BoltR> Too much shit on the screen
<BoltR> again
<BoltR> You could turn that off
Again, read more.
<BoltR> Though I suppose I actually read through it all, so it wasn't a total waste.
Lol you did?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
At first i was dissapointed in MP, but i learned to love it. Let's say i couldnt handle the fact that it wasnt 2D anymore.
Did we see Samus in bikini at the end of Prime?=P
Hmm, I suppose you sure got me there. I skipped the last part of the second section where you complained about a visual effect which you could turn off. Even still, those were comments I made as I was reading what you wrote. The first line were I spoke of the options menu was made before I would have gotten to the section where you wrote about it, so i'm not going to go back and change that. The second comment was after I read the first paragraph of the cluttered part, and just before I skipped into the next section. Maybe I should have included timestamps, and footnotes stating the time when I read each sentence.
That might help. But whatever you do, be sure to not wait until done fully reading to summarize your thoughts on the subject.
So I'm guessing, you like Metroid Prime?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Eh, it was ok I suppose. Not nearly as good as the 2D ones, but as games go it was enjoyable.
If I weren't lazy I would go take a picture of 3 random rooms in norfair and point out how they look the exact same.
Selected comments from #metroid on irc.metroid2002.com:
<MissileWaster> like, if its a video game you should be able to see everything in the area
<MissileWaster> go outside at night
<MissileWaster> notice anything?
<MissileWaster> nope, cause its DARK
<MissileWaster> so a video game might be dark
<MissileWaster> doesnt mean that the company is crap at game making
<Zeke> Yeah, and other complaints he makes are endemic to games in general
<Zeke> Like "good thing I got the boss's weakness right before the boss"
<MissileWaster> it means they are better at doing what they are paid to do
<MissileWaster> also, he mentions a lot of "i was going the wrong way down this arbitrary cooridor"
<MissileWaster> i'm guessing that he never actually played the 2d metroids
<MissileWaster> i get lost all the time in them, because of rooms that look the exact same
<Zeke> Exactly
<MissileWaster> mp at least has variety
<MissileWaster> to help me on meh way
<Zeke> And the HUD is too obtrusive? That one he's just plain wrong about
<Zeke> It takes up exactly the right amount of space IMO
<MissileWaster> the same amount as every other video game
<MissileWaster> a line across the top "OMG STOP THE PRESSES! OBTRUSIVE!"
<Zeke> Pfft, now the control scheme? Come ON
<kwinse> tell me it's not annoying to take 5 seconds to aim a gun upwards
<Zeke> Prime's controls are downright perfect; only FPSers who were used to the standard two-stick scheme complained
<MissileWaster> yeah
<MissileWaster> also, he bitches about the map
<MissileWaster> i'm guessing that the pink square from super metroid is better than a 3d map, in his eyes
<Zeke> The map could be a mite less confusing, but after playing ZX, I know what a bad map REALLY is
<MissileWaster> hell yeah, its a bitch to find SHIT in that game
Yeah, I had to post there, kind of like stirring a hornet's nest, except that most of the hornets are either idling or aren't on irc.
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I must agree that they destroyed Metroid with the 3D version... The 2D games are SO MUCH BETTER. It's a whole different game now. It's more an annoying fps than Metroid. The 3D games are often destroying the previous 2D version.... I don't like that :(.
I disagree with JXQ here. I really enjoyed Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 and still enjoy playing them.
Why does the environment require awkward turning double-jumps in first person?
I don't recall any, not a single jump that would have been frustrating. The jumping in Metroid Prime is quite easy.
Samus put her hand up after being hit
That lasts about half a second until you can lock onto your target again, don't really see a point whining about it.
YOU HAVE TO SEE TO PLAY.
And you can see, even if there's a yellow tint in your visor. I was never distracted with that.
Every door looks the same
But they aren't next to each other. You just need to memorize them or quickly check your map. I don't know what makes it so annoying.
Artificial challenge
I agree with this, but it doesn't annoy me.
Field of vision
I agree with this and it's kinda annoying. Never had big problems with it though.
GIANT FUCKING WHITE CIRCLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SCREEN.
And it's transparent. And you need the visor rarely anyways.
think I’d rather find all the stupid packages in Grand Theft Auto than scan every fucking enemy, item, computer screen, land formation, and pretty sky there is to offer in the game.
You don't have to scan everything, just the necessary things.
The game is too dark
No it's not. Just turn up the brightness in your TV to the normal level.
There’s too much shit on the screen
And it's pretty much transparent and small and on the edges of the screen.
Shitty shitty shitty shitty controls
Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Moving Samus is very precise and aiming is easy with the lock up system.
it’s very fun to watch someone else play this game, if they know what they’re doing.
This makes me think you're flaming this game because you're not good in it.
Anyways, I'm not good at writing things and probably missed something or didn't make myself clear.
Peace out JXQ.
I want to make clear that I've never played or watched this game. I just want to clarify if, whenever Samus gets hit, she puts her hand up for half a second, during which you can't lock onto your target. Is this accurate?
whenever Samus gets hit, she puts her hand up for half a second, during which you can't lock onto your target. Is this accurate?
She puts her hand up only if it's a "big hit" meaning that every hit doesn't do this. And she holds her hand up longer but if I recall correctly, you can lock the target before the hand is down.
That writeup wasn't really very fun to read, it seemed to me that you were just griping for the sake of griping. I've never thought that there is too much stuff on the screen. Some areas of the game might be dark, yes, but I think that just creates a specific kind of atmosphere. No place where you have to fight loads of enemies is too dark. The controls for me are very intuitive, although I must admit that using the D-pad is kinda slow. I don't understand why you are complaining about the visors. Would you prefer that nothing change on the screen? The visors are supposed to be unique and have their own defincies, the whole point of using the x-ray visor is that it's not as easy to see the surroundings as when using the normal visor. I do agree with one of your points wholeheartedly: The disappearing chozo ghosts are a bitch to kill and it's extremely annoying when they respawn immediately after you leave the room.
I wasn't thrilled about Prime being in 3D either but once I got the hang of it it was really fun to play. I'm extremely glad it was not made in third person. There are NO third-person games with good controls. Even in the good third-person games (for ex. OoT, MDK) the controls are always slippery and impossible to use precisely (except for maybe Tomb Raider but there the controls are just stiff).
I disagree with basically all of JXQ's points except for artificially inflated difficulty.
Visor Effects
These increase the learning curve -- the first time you go through that area they can be a distraction, the second time through they're an occassional annoyance during combat, the third time through you've learned where they are and can avoid them.
Every door looks the same
but every enterance way looks different. Every single one is different, recognizably so. Though I did get lost once or twice around the second elevator down to the lava area, that's about the whole extent of the trouble it gave me.
Artificial challenge
One of the first things I noticed when I played Super Metroid was that enemies reappeared everytime I reentered a room. Although I agree that Prime is a bit havy on the forced backtracking. Still, it's not that big of a deal. If you really want to complain about backtracking, play metroid prime 2.
Field of Vision
It may be small, but the entire game was designed with that field of vision in mind. The only times it ever affects the difficulty for me are when I have jetpack pirates to deal with. And I'm pretty sure that the high manuverability is supposed to let them swing around behind where you can't see them.
Stupid impractical visors
You're using them wrong. The xray and thermal visors are not for general purpose usage. You use the thermal visor when you need to see in the dark, and you use the xray visor when you need to know what walls can be broken, and where invisible blocks may be. At all other times you should be using the standard combat visor. Except when scanning.
Speaking of scanning, have you noticed how "scanning" computers often rewards you with data that Samus had to hack the computer for? I don't know about you, but I suspect I'd find it a bit trying to engage in combat simultaneously with doing some intense computer hacking.
The game is too dark
Turn up the brightness/contrast and/or use the thermal visor.
Most rooms in Metroid Prime are reasonably bright.
There’s too much shit on the screen
Indeed there's so much shit on the screen that you couldn't convey your message without pasting more ontop of it in paint. OH WAIT, that doesn't make sense.
The radar is small and unobtrusive in the top left corner of the screen and it's absolutely essential when there are enemies on more than one side of you. In fact, the radar is why the small viewing angle is not an issue.
The map, meanwhile, would keep you from getting lost if you referred to it and could remember which side you came in. (Here's a hint, the rooms are rarely if ever symmetrical).
The Missile count is, well, the missile count. I can't think of one FPS which doesn't keep a tally of you remaining ammo onscreen at all times.
Then you've got the geigercounter, which admittedly isn't always necessary, but it's practically transparent until it turns red and starts beeping anyway.
This leaves us with the visor and gun selectors. They're a handy quickreference for newbies, and for veterans, they're out of the way enough not to matter.
Shitty shitty shitty shitty controls
No. Just, no. You're wrong.
Metroid Prime has the easiest control scheme I've ever encountered in a console FPS. The only improvment you suggested, using the C-stick to change the view while Samus is running. would get all kinds of complicated all kinds of fast, and would require moving the fire button to a shoulder just to accomadate it. I'd much rather simply lock on.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
>First Person perspective
Well, it was inevitable. I know it's no excuse, but it was inevitable.
>Every door looks the same
Try playing NES Metroid or Metroid II: RoS. You'll notice how blissfully different the doors in MP are compared to those two. :D
>Artificial challenge
That I somewhat agree with. Low% in this game requires collecting way too much stuff, IMO (even though not all of it are usable items), and Echoes is even worse in that aspect. Interesting what they'll come up with in Metroid Prime 3. I hear Retro doesn't like sequence breaking too much (more like, at all), so they'll likely make sure to introduce more strict gameplay boundaries, kinda like in Fusion, than allow an annoyingly unrestrained — or should I say, frivolous — exploration of Zero Mission ("Oh, so I can go here, just like that? And beat that boss with my shitty items? And that's Tourian already?").
>Field of vision
Technical limitation, fixed in MP3.
>The game is too dark
Heh, sadly, I'd never come around to playing this game (as usual, Nintendo didn't give much shit about sales in Russia too much, and the Gamecubes together with their discs were to be found only in 2-3 selected e-stores; that is another story, though), but watching numerous speedruns, I can agree that it was a rare game where cranking the monitor brightness/contrast/signal level wasn't enough to fully see what was going on in several parts of the game. The other one was Manhunt, although it was ten times more awful.
>There’s too much shit on the screen
"Pick up baby Metroid from soccer practice" = lol. Dunno what it was for, the visor design really seems way too cluttered as it is. Can't comment on playability, though.
>Shitty shitty shitty shitty controls
Kim 'Silent echo' Siafa wrote:
I'll never play metroid prime again, I can't stand playing it, I hate this game, the jumping and morph ball mechanics are horrible, among other reasons...
— This coming from an Echoes multi-WR holder might actually mean something, though again, can't comment on playability due to not having played either of the games.
And it was also fixed in MP3, from what I saw.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
moozooh wrote:
Shitty shitty shitty shitty controls
Kim 'Silent echo' Siafa wrote:
I'll never play metroid prime again, I can't stand playing it, I hate this game, the jumping and morph ball mechanics are horrible, among other reasons...
— This coming from an Echoes multi-WR holder might actually mean something
He may not have been the real Kim Saifa at the time when he said that :( Or, as a matter of fact, he allegedly claimed that his name wasnt really Kim Saifa (Im sure you know this very odd story). Several several months after his "burn out", displaying his evil side or whatever you wanna call it, he still hasnt returned :((
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
It was "he"? I'm pretty sure the forum profile said Kim's a female.
Either way, it was way back in June'06. I also wasn't quite in the detail of that accident, so remind me to ask you about it some time.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I guess I should point out that if you are a fan of this game, of course you're going to disagree with what I wrote. And that responses to an editorial like this in the form of "no it's not" to "the game is dark", or "you CAN see" to "you can't see" are meaningless to address.
Some points I will touch on:
<MissileWaster> go outside at night
<MissileWaster> notice anything?
<MissileWaster> nope, cause its DARK
<MissileWaster> so a video game might be dark
Another argument of realism -> good game.
<Zeke> Yeah, and other complaints he makes are endemic to games in general
<Zeke> Like "good thing I got the boss's weakness right before the boss"
Not so in typical Metroids (at least to the degree in MP). That's one of the things that's so nice about them.
<Brushy> But [the doors] aren't next to each other. You just need to memorize them or quickly check your map. I don't know what makes it so annoying.
Checking your map, over and over again to make sure you're in the right spot, since after you've played through the area, all the rooms on the map are orange. That's what's annoying, it breaks up the gameplay. The alternative is to "memorize them"? I discussed this in the article as well.
<Brushy> This makes me think you're flaming this game because you're not good in it.
You are right that I'm not good at it. The reason is due to frustrations about the more often-found things in the game that I wrote about. So you could be right, indirectly. And, I'm not "flaming" the game. It's not a personal buddy that I'm making fun of, it's meant to be critiqued.
<Kyrsimys> That writeup wasn't really very fun to read, it seemed to me that you were just griping for the sake of griping.
I'm sorry? No, I'm not. I just wrote it to summarize my own thoughts, and share with others. It very much was griping just to gripe.
<Kyrsimys> I don't understand why you are complaining about the visors.
They need to be used more than should be necessary for such an even-shittier HUD (especially the Thermal visor). Through the lab after you acquire it, all over the wrecked ship, various spots in the mines to see the stupid enemies. Yes, it's a different view. It's awful. I would have greatly prefered no visors, or maybe a merged set that displays a bit of thermal info on the regular view, so you could still see the environment and walk around in it.
<Upthorn> but every enterance way looks different.
Huh? Disagree. This is what I mean. Of course the doors themselves are identical, but the environment is too similar as well. And I don't think Super Metroid suffers from this nearly as bad, because the game being 2D, there is not as much to take in and process about the environment - it's easier to identify things.
<Upthorn> In fact, the radar is why the small viewing angle is not an issue.
This is ridiculous. I still look at the screen and it doesn't look right to me. It affects the entire play, not just fighting enemies.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
That might help. But whatever you do, be sure to not wait until done fully reading to summarize your thoughts on the subject.
So I'm guessing, you like Metroid Prime?
