Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 5
I made some tests for Stage 1 and I'm not sure 2p is faster than 1p. Even more for 1 passage stages like the beggining of Stage 2. I'll try to find time tomorrow to be sure. If not, next week. :)
Post subject: Re: New tests
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1112)
Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 1217
siksteen wrote:
I made some tests for Stage 1 and I'm not sure 2p is faster than 1p. Even more for 1 passage stages like the beggining of Stage 2.
Er, what game? Mighty Morphin Power Rangers - The Movie Edition?
Post subject: Re: New tests
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
siksteen wrote:
I made some tests for Stage 1 and I'm not sure 2p is faster than 1p. Even more for 1 passage stages like the beggining of Stage 2. I'll try to find time tomorrow to be sure. If not, next week. :)
stop making new threads. use the old ones for your power rangers run. thank you.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STBm5hZgKAA Comparison between morphed and unmorphed ranger for Stage 1, except boss battle. Unmorphed: frames 13341 rerecord 346 Morphed: frames 13392 rerecord 148
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 91
Well, if we're going with "been around for a long time without posting often", I'll toss in a couple notes. (1) Most people here are rather nice. Don't get discouraged! (2) The standard of disallowing cheat codes is not a hard-and-fast rule, and while I agree that it will probably apply in this case, that decision would be best made after seeing the finished product. (3) Years ago, there was a strong sentiment against "pride runs" (or "ego runs"). Ideally, TASes should be made for enjoyment and not just to get published. Whether the "already morphed" basis for this run gets it rejected or not, I wish you the best, and I look forward to seeing your work! ------------ Back on the topic of the WIP shown, it looks quite good! A question, though. At around 3:01, is it definitely faster to kill the final enemy on the right side of the screen before the final enemy on the left side of the screen?
Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 5
Thanks a lot! Unfortunately, I don't have much time to spend on doing this right now. But it's nice to see that someone is checking it. I can't promisse another update but there will be! I don't really feel like using the "Morphed Ranger code", I am even leaning to morph only at bosses. But I still have to make some tests. Finally, believe me, I do this for the enjoyment, mine and the viewer's, it's just very very beta yet. =)
Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil
let me say you need to play morphed, and collect enough energy to release the special move in boss fight, it will save lots of frames, no in first boss though, but in further bosses..
Run..Run...Run.....
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
After some frustrated attempts on the N64 and Arcade realms I realized that I belong here, on the SNES section.
Randil wrote:
so if someone else wants to give this game a try, go ahead!
Leave it to me! I found a small time saver on the menu, and along with boct1584's suggestions, I think I a good number of frames can be saved.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Skilled player (1826)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Awesome, good luck! I'm interested in what you can come up with. I would also like to remind you of this post from the published movie. mikwuyma pointed out that backwards jumping is actually slightly faster than running. At least in theory, since you will also have to consider turning around afterwards. Here's some more info to help you out: RAM addresses:
31
00000	7E0EA1	w	u	0	X pos
00001	7E0EA0	b	u	0	X subp
00002	7E0F41	b	u	0	Y pos
00003	7E0CA2	w	s	0	X speed in air
00004	7E1A36	b	u	0	Enemy 1 HP
00005	7E1A3A	b	s	0	Enemy 2 HP
00006	7E1A3E	b	s	0	Enemy 3 HP
00007	7E1A42	b	s	0	Enemy 4 HP
00008	7E1A46	b	s	0	Enemy 5 HP
00009	7E1A4A	b	s	0	Enemy 6 HP
0000A	7E1A4E	b	s	0	Enemy 7 HP
0000B	7E1A5E	w	s	0	Enemy 7 HP
0000C	7E0EA5	w	u	0	Enemy 1 X pos
0000D	7E0EA9	w	u	0	Enemy 2 X pos
0000E	7E0EAD	w	u	0	Enemy 3 X pos
0000F	7E0EB1	w	u	0	Enemy 4 X pos
00010	7E0EB5	w	u	0	Enemy 5 X pos
00011	7E0EB9	w	u	0	Enemy 6 X pos
00012	7E0ECD	w	u	0	Enemy 7 X pos
00013	7E1A32	b	s	0	
00014	7E1A52	b	u	0	
00015	7E0EB1	b	u	0	Enemy X
00016	7E0031	w	u	0	Scr X pos
00017	7E0A4A	b	s	0	
00018	7E0F95	w	u	0	Platform 1 Y
00019	7E0EF1	w	u	0	Platform 2 X
0001A	7E0EF9	w	u	0	Platform 3 Y
0001B	7E0FA1	w	u	0	Platform 4 Y
0001C	7E0746	b	u	0	
0001D	7E04C4	b	u	0	Monster HP
0001E	7E04CA	b	u	0	You power
Lua script: I made a quite special lua script for this game. I remember someone else making a lua script where you could click on the window to achieve some effect. I tried it out and came up with a lua script where you can click on boxes on the screen in order to perform combo hits. I don't remember actually using it much, but it could be fun to fiddle around with. I've put it here: http://pastebin.com/12h9XtS1 Some random data I've scribbled down, might be helpful:
Running	You move at the constant speed of 2p/f
Turning around	This stops you for 7 f
	
Punching, then continue running	This stops you for 10 f
Punching, then turn around and run	This stops you for 16 f
Laying kick, then continue running	This stops you for 26 f
Laying kick, then turn around and run	This stops you for 32 f
	
Landing from a jump, continue running	This stops you for 5 f
	
Hitting an enemy with a jump kick	Stop for 1 frame when the enemy is hit

Damage table:
Attack	Damage	Frames until damage	Frames between attacks	Wait frames after attack, same dir	Wait frames after attack, Other dir
Laying kick	3	7	19	26	
Hit	2	6	11	12	18
Throw	4		35	38	
Triple combo	8		41		
Four combo	15		90	91	
This game is a lot trial and error in order to find the fastest strategy. It's quite fun to try out different ways of finishing enemies, and you often need to plan ahead for the next wave of enemies.
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Wow, that's a lot of valuable info, thank you very much Randil! The game is really enjoyable to TAS, I don't need to rely on good or bad luck to advance and I'm already making some progress. I'm about to fight the first boss, Bones, 631 frames ahead so far. I'll post a wip as soon as I finish him.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Skilled player (1826)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Woah, 631 frames already, that's a lot. I look forward to see what you've done to this poor game! :)
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
First stage done, 661 frames ahead. The wip is on my storage; http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/814836104665864 There's few differences between our strategies and the biggest time saver so far is a reset... edit: I'm doing the water section of stage 3, here the "take damage" or "no damage taken" must be decided. I played the stage both styles and the difference is 262 frames, so I'll go with the no damage taken for consistency. anyways, I'm about to fight the third boss, Eye Guy, 1954 frames ahead now. edit: New combo found on Eye Guy; flying kick+arrow, it can take up to 30 HP from him! edit: the combo is not effective against enemies that can be knocked down, but is pretty useful on doors, so I'm redoing some sections... edit: The biggest time saver is no longer the reset, but the new combo! I'm in the middle of stage 4, 2750 frames ahead now. edit: all of boct1584's wall jump suggestions were implemented in the run and I'm about to fight the fourth boss, Genie, 3030 frames ahead. edit: I finally found places where the backflip can save time consistently, now there's only the Megazord battles to do, ~3600 frames ahead? edit: redid some of the early stages and it's submitted already.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
This game seems to use the same engine used in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and restart at the beginning also saves time, are you using it in your run? If not, you can skip the Bandai logo with this little trick and save nearly 500 frames!
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
it's not my run and it definitely looks improvable because yellow and pink rangers are faster overall(yellow also has a big hitbox on crouching attack) and 2p run would finish fights faster (except if i can't charge one character's meter) even though i'd have to wait for two winposes instead of one. the worst of 2p would be splitting meter,dats for sure. i probably won't tackle this any soon because of studies but as soon as i can i'll take a look at it again.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
If I remember this game correctly, as soon as one player morphs, the other player will automatically get to morph too, so you should only need to split meter if you want both players to be able to use power attacks against the bosses.
Previous Name: boct1584
Player (117)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
I remember when I was a kid and playing this game on single player mode, when it looked like i would die, I would grab the second controller press start and continue playing as another character. This made me feel cool cause i could cheat the game. Might be useful if you have to take damage to save time. If not, best of luck, and I look forward to completion!
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
Link to video comments on improvements? i will do a comparison with a 2 player TAS to see where it gains and where it loses time,also will compare time it takes to farm power cores instead of just goin straight to the end,the infinite combo on the first boss saved a lot of time and headche!i'm about ten second ahead of daniel's TAS it takes 23 cores to fill the power meter,or 19 plus 1 big core(the ones u find in a box) normal character has a special move with invencibility,rangers have more damage and grab objects while jumping,both have different attack animations thanks for the reset trick,i implemented on my second version of the TAS,now with a farmin strategy, i will compare sections later and would like help at doin comparisons. Link to video jumping over an enemy saves 3 frames,jumping on an enemy/damage boosting saves 1 frame(compared to killing with an aerial attack,normal attack only used for better reach) this is the analysis for OHKO,but it's more complicated when more health enemies appear[/video]
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
old stage 1 Link to video I have improved stage 1 by more than 100 frames and done stage 2,still deciding if i'm going to farm the power icons on stage 3 or just go through it minimizing lag,it would be more interesting to have the rangers ready for the battle,which is something very rare for this stage :) Link to video WIP has more progress than just stage 2,i farmed all the way with yellow ranger and it'll be possible to morph befor the boss battle in stage 3(which is something very rare in real time) http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18864903524386549
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
I run when i can,entertain you by farming when i can't...best music on the game. 1morphing before the boss is useless since i wont have time to fill the meter but done anyway. 2the boss will teleport if he isn't commited to a move yet,hence the reason why i kept not hitting it in the first frame vulnerable but the first attacking frame.I couldnt get him to the correct attacks at the first possibility so Ijust made him start over with the upattack(the one that juggles him into another lane) Link to video im sorry for triple posting but i have new content,tell me if that's not the correct way to do it,i can wait more time before posting again, just editing the old ones like before http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18876223618514392 4th stage http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18899174660473190 Link to video
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 4/24/2012
Posts: 129
Location: Atlanta, GA
In your second WIP video, it looks like you miss a punch on Cannon Top at ~3:33 due to lag and his invincibility period, in a way that seems as if waiting slightly longer would speed up the fight. Or was that for manipulating luck?
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
TheReflexWonder wrote:
In your second WIP video, it looks like you miss a punch on Cannon Top at ~3:33 due to lag and his invincibility period, in a way that seems as if waiting slightly longer would speed up the fight. Or was that for manipulating luck?
Neither,but jumping at that time would put me on the blast i avoided by jumping later.(it does stay on screen for a lot longer than it looks,so i would have to jump attack and fall on the blast),i wish i could've manipulated those bombs out,i really didn't see anything else to do but stand and wait(or attack while waiting) BTW,i'm glad somebody has interest in the game,it feels a little sad seeing no activity but my own in the thread Stage 5 is huge and i have to redo from beginning -_-
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 4/24/2012
Posts: 129
Location: Atlanta, GA
An attack that doesn't hit tends to look a little sloppy from an observer's perspective. While I understand it doesn't really matter, part of the appeal of TAS runs is that there's superhuman precision. It's a bit like if you're TASing a shooter and miss shots. It takes you out of the thought that a human could never manage that. I have fond memories of this game growing up. I'm definitely a fan of beat-em-ups in general. I like the idea of it having a proper TAS, even if the game doesn't allow for a ton of variety in that.
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
i didn't really get ahold of the tas input feature in the rr2 lsnes version,i wish it had the features like fceux has of rewinding,but it should be simple to remove the punch(i will test if it desyncs or not before sending final version) i also just found out i have to luck manipulate for the power cores,i thought there was some initial seed to what size the power cores will be for each robot in first section of stage 5 but it's actually dependent on the frame i kill it :( i was hoping this game wouldn't have something like this. I can't luck manipulate Silver Horn into any interesting pattern,and i've been playing with it for a while... http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/19066176223269338 Link to video
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (689)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1792
Location: Brasil
1Luck manipulation on the first part to make sure the robots drop BIG power cores,i only lose a few frames and it's better than farming along the way,which requires more enemies and more positioning for the drops 2Second part has the robots and pillars with wonky collision boxes,don't be fooled by the video/sprites,they're much bigger and i couldn't get better chances of jumping around them EDIT: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/19112768048197398 SILVER HORN and 6th stage COMPLETE! Silver horn is manipulated to take 3 or more hits,if attacked too soon he only takes 1 hit midboss is retarded,i can hit twice with the same attack,i don't even know what it's supposed to do Main frame has so much invencibility between each hit i just need to him once in each jump(i tested many jump heights),he won't attack if you're always hitting him in the first vulnerable frame. Link to video EDIT 2: Ivan OOOOOze starts with the most exploitable attack only after he has been hit a lot The feminist rangers end up suffering from depression after killing so many people so fast,so they just break down while enemies kill them and the robot rescues them. Link to video
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.