Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
Didn't know whether to bump the 8 month old thread (which is for any%) or start a new one, so I'm risking making another thread.
I've been working on an MMX 100% run for the past couple days. Today, I tested my route in fullspeed and got a decent time of 50:39 with about 1550 rerecords. Obviously it's not optimized to the fullest extent, which I assume would take off another 5-10 minutes or so. Unfortunately, I cannot put up the run until tomorrow, since my working computer is not hooked up to the internet (I'm posting this from Wii).
My route thus far has me returning to two stages for Heart Tanks, plus going back through Armored Armadillo's stage four more times:
-Chill Penguin (for dash)
-Boomer Kuwanger (for weapon)
-Spark Mandrill
-Follow boss order through Flame Mammoth
-Boomer again
-Chilly again
-AA's stage for Hadoken
-Sigma stages
Is there a faster route? Or an alternate way to get the BK and CP Heart Tanks?
Hopefully I'll be able to put up the fullspeed test tomorrow. I'll probably do another one with a few key optimizations that I know will make it about 3-4 minutes faster. I'll begin working on the actual TAS as well, and I'll have a couple levels done for a WIP.
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
You should watch FractalFusion's test run: Mega Man X V1.1 (U).smv. It is also linked in the main Megaman X thread.
If you watch that run I think you'll quickly understand why you need not reenter Boomer Kuwanger's stage, why it's better to play Flame Mammoth early, and how to get the hadouken after entering Armored Armadillo's stage technically only twice.
It seems the route used in FractalFusion's test run is still the best known sequence for a 100% TAS. OgreSlayer was working on a potentially faster route, but it hinged on a tricky (or rather, we believe to be impossible) maneuver to get the heart tank in Sting Chameleon stage. You can read more on this 100% route planning in the main thread, which we should probably merge with this topic.
Give it your best shot, Tragedy.
Check the published MMX run for the latest tricks.
Also see: http://tasvideos.org/MegaManXTricks.html
That page needs some serious reform.
Yup that's almost the same, but you need to be on the ground, and I don't know if it's possible to kill the last boss with a hadouken.
And it attacks only like the X-buster. So you have to way sometime to be able to lend a hit.
Velgauder Sigma (final form) is immune to the hadoken. It bounces off him like Chill Penguin when sliding. Everything else can be trashed in one hit, but Rangda Bangda and Sting Chameleon are difficulty (but not impossible) and require luck manipulation to do quickly.
I have a few ideas that require testing, but I'm thinking an optimal route would be:
Chill Penguin, get the dash
Boomer Kuwanger, get everything
Storm eagle, get everything
Flame Mammoth, get everything
Spark Mandrill, get everything
Armored Armadillo, get everything except the Hadoken (duh)
Launch Octopus, get everything
* Chill Penguin again for the heart tank
Sting Chameleon, get everything
Bad side: two bosses are fought with the X-Buster rather than their intended weapon. Chill Penguin doesn't count because you're forced to.
Good side: I think getting the Z-Buster upgrade early is worth it. You can do some massive damage against minibosses, especially in Launch Octopus' stage. You should be able to nuke all the minibosses much quicker with an overcharged Storm Tornado. The snakes will go down damned fast (see my dual run for an example), the submarines take some serious damage from it and you should be able to knock the torpedo boat down from under it rather than climbing onto it.
If Sting Chameleon's heart tank can indeed be picked up before defeating Launch Octopus, then move him to just before Storm Eagle.
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
When I finish my current project (I have no clue when that will be), I will look into this game. This used to be my favorite game a couple years ago and I know all of the levels and stuff so it won't be too foreign to me to TAS. Unfortunately, I have not seen the TASes or speedruns of this game or x2 or x3 yet so I don't know what I'm getting myself into. When I have freetime I will study up on it and see if I'd like to pursue a 100% run of it.
Me being the extreme masochist I am, I'm going to give this a try. I figure, my first (three) TASes were done on a pretty easy game, so I may as well challenge myself.
One quick question to Fractal: Does dashing while shooting increase charge shot damage too, or is it just pellet damage?
Also, I liked your test run. It was/will be very helpful.
After a preliminary run through the highway stage, I'm within about 5 seconds (the wrong way, sadly) of Fractal's published run (to which a 100% should in theory be identical up till the end of Chill Penguin's stage.) Few things.
1. Can someone confirm the button-press sequence for skipping the maximum of the opening? I had a lot of trouble doing it, and couldn't stop the title screen from fading in completely, which leads me to believe it may be SNES9X specific.
2. I could use some tips on taking down the Insect-O-Copters. I can't seem to get them on-screen without going too far and then being forced to either take damage before I can finish them, or run backward to dodge (which also wastes time.) (This is probably where I lost most of the time that I'm behind FractalFusion on.)
1. Can someone confirm the button-press sequence for skipping the maximum of the opening? I had a lot of trouble doing it, and couldn't stop the title screen from fading in completely, which leads me to believe it may be SNES9X specific.
Press Start on the following frames: 358, 393, 445, 447
Don't worry too much about the intro stage. The opening stage is one of the most aggravating parts of the run. So far, the best intro run is OgreSlayeR's intro stage. I think we can use it while crediting him but without making him co-author. But try to beat it first. Don't forget to jump at the beginning; it saves a frame.
Here are some memory addresses that you can use for Snes9x memory watch. Horizontal position of X is most important now. Compare with my run a lot.
7E00B4-7E00B5: Horizontal position of camera (pixels).
7E00B6-7E00B7: Vertical position of camera (pixels).
7E0BCA-7E0BCB: Horizontal position of X (pixels).
7E0BCC-7E0BCD: Vertical position of X (pixels).
7E0BFA: Dash, frames remaining
7E0BFF: Charge (counting down) 149 blue 79 yellow 1 pink
7E0E8F: Enemy 1 HP
7E0ECF: Enemy 2 HP
7E1F7E: Hadōken capsule visits.
Solon wrote:
2. I could use some tips on taking down the Insect-O-Copters. I can't seem to get them on-screen without going too far and then being forced to either take damage before I can finish them, or run backward to dodge (which also wastes time.) (This is probably where I lost most of the time that I'm behind FractalFusion on.)
Watch my run. Either get it to use the gun or missiles (not the rolling ball enemies) and autofire it. It may help to check enemy HP in memory watch.
I've got the MMX Tricks page saved to my flash, and the frames in question didn't make it work properly. I was able to clear past the Capcom logo at 340, and I'm not sure on everything else. What I basically want to know is if these frames are specific to playing it on SNES9X, because (for the moment) I'm using ZSNES. I may switch if I end up really needing the Memory Watch (not sure if ZSNES has that, haven't been able to find it if so), but getting used to another emulator would probably take a while. I'm also pretty reliant on ZSNES's Rewind function.
As to the intro stage, I have beaten it; guess I wasn't clear in my last post. Going into the stage select, I'm about five seconds behind your any%.
Yes they are, but I didn't realize at first that you were using ZSNES.
I tried it out, and realized that the frames on which you press keys while recording do not correspond to frames on which keys are pressed while playing back. In other words, desync.
Despite this, I have made a movie skipping one of the intro cutscenes, but now for some reason, there is a huge delay when clearing the main menu in playback mode (even though it was cleared very fast in the recording phase). Some serious non-correspondence happening here.
If you want to see the movie, ask for it. Because of the above, I cannot tell you where to press Start.
I also would like to know how you managed to make a ZSNES movie without much problem.
ZSNES does have TAS tools (rerecord, resume recording, etc.) in v1.51, and it isn't nearly as bad about desyncing. What version were you using to make you think it's be a problem?
(Also, no further progress. Gonna redo the highway from the start and see how much I can improve it.)
this game is so hard without the emulator, just got it on ps2
A friend of mine got the X Collection for PS2 as well, and it is completely unplayable. There's somewhere between a half a second and full second of lag between the button press and the reaction on screen (which does not exist in God of War or SF3).
Trying to avoid hits in a really fast paced game with that much lag is basically impossible.
It's much, much better on SNES or an emulator.
The original series Megaman Collection for PS2 is a straight up piece of shit too, unfortunately. I don't know what the hell it is about luck in that one but if you run a weapon dry Wily's tower (any game) expect to be spending somewhere between 25 minutes to an hour to refill 1 or 2 of them... enemies never drop anything.
Looks good so far. I see you figured out the intro skip.
I'm using v1.51 on Windows XP, so I don't know why I can't record properly.
A few things (even if you already know this):
- The second bee should be manipulated to avoid using the ball enemies (which cause lag).
- Jumping at the bottom of the downslope saves 3 frames (which is not in my published run).
- Make the first two carts turn around going right, and destroy the robots in them right when they are about to turn around to the left after passing you. This allows using the carts to propel forward a bit.
- The second cart out of the ship should be destroyed with a reverse pellet+charged shot (to do this, shoot a charged shot and immediately shoot a pellet while close enough but not too close).
- After destroying the second cart, X should be positioned so that the ship doesn't move sideways before Vile comes out.
- It is possible to have Vile jump straight upward close to you.
How far behind is this run to the published run?
Looks good so far. I see you figured out the intro skip.
I did have it right, then? Dunno why, but I had the idea that the title screen didn't have to fade all the way in. The frames you hit the buttons on are definitely different with ZSNES.
I'm using v1.51 on Windows XP, so I don't know why I can't record properly.
Not sure what your problem might be; ZSNES hasn't given me any trouble with recording, aside from desync trouble.
- The second bee should be manipulated to avoid using the ball enemies (which cause lag).
Ah, that's why you suggested that. I'd've done that to begin with if I'd known. I didn't notice any lag when I was watching it, though; I'll take another look and see; if I notice any, I'll restart from there.
- Make the first two carts turn around going right, and destroy the robots in them right when they are about to turn around to the left after passing you. This allows using the carts to propel forward a bit.
You're saying to let them pass me, then blow them up before they can turn back around?
How far behind is this run to the published run?
About 300 frames; my estimate with my last WIP must have been off.
A way to do mid-air hadoken:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/311803909/FractalFusion%20mmx%20midair%20hadoken.smv
Steps to do the mid-air hadoken:
- Charge up Shotgun Ice and place the ice platform in a wall.
- Stand on the platform.
- Start the hadoken sequence (v v> >) without firing, and press Start.
- Switch to X Buster.
- Press fire as soon as you regain control.
Solon, I admit that I raised the standard very high with my Megaman X published run. If you would like to pursue some other project, go ahead.
What I'm really waiting on is for the ZSNES crew to implement more TAS tools (memory watch and so on) or for the SNES9X crew to implement a Rewind function, which I don't really want to do without.
