This is a TAS of the n64 classic "The Legend of Zelda - Ocarina of Time". It is the first run (that I know of) that is under 2 hours and the first run that uses the "Reverse Bottle Adventure Glitch" which is what made this time possible. Using this glitch you can instantly update something in your inventory or quest item sub-screen.
Aims for fastest time
Uses death as shortcut
Takes damage to save time
Abuses programming errors in the game
No predefined saves
Genre: Action
Genre: Adventure
This is my first submission if I left something out of these comments let me know.
Bisqwit: Congratulations on your first TAS movie. I believe you gained a lot
of experience in the making of it. However, as many audience members have pointed
out, this movie is lacking in a few aspects we keep important. Compared to the
published movie, it does not do as good job following the guidelines,
such as "never wait for anything unless absolutely necessary", even though
it completes the game faster due to new techniques.
As you already have realized yourself, part of it is because you
did not use frame advance in the making of this movie.
As such, because this movie does not really represent well the quality we uphold
on this site, and because the votes cast on this submission are not significantly
in favor of publishing it, I am rejecting this submission.
I wish you good luck for your next TAS work, but I recommend you
gather experience from some less demanding TAS project first.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
The point is we'd be publishing something we know can easily be beaten and optimized. Goes against what the site is here for, does it not? Aiming for perfection I mean. With more time and care spent the run could be much more impressive.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
The point is we'd be publishing something we know can easily be beaten and optimized. Goes against what the site is here for, does it not? Aiming for perfection I mean. With more time and care spent the run could be much more impressive.
Then you'd have to introduce arbitrary slippery slope arguments which just opens up a can of worms. Most submissions have known improvements in them, some signficant, some not so significant.
This comes up in plenty of submission threads, and the fact that it can be improved is definitely not in itself a reason to reject a run in my opinion.
If encoders don't feel a run such as this is on top of their to do list, I think that's understandable and very reasonable. That's another topic though.
It was pretty obvious the older run could be improved and yet it was still published. Why go against precedent here?
There were far more precedents where a clearly inoptimal improvement was rejected, and personally I think this is right. For unassisted runs, it wouldn't be, but Raiscan in his post just above pointed out why it should be so for a TAS. This site should promote flawlessness, not just "faster than previous"-ness.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Ah, gotta love how Ocarina of Time always causes hysteria! (no matter how unoptimized or optimized a certain run is). I dont think I need to view this because some of the no voters have presented good points why the run should not be published but also the yes voters have stated solid points why it should be published. Lets hear what the big man thinks about this :)
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
switch out "faster" for "better" (assuming typo here) and yes, that's exactly what should be promoted imo.
Basic example: We have two movies avaliable, one is better than the other. We choose the better one.
Agree to disagree.
mwl,
Any chance of that technical commentary you were talking about for Guano's run last year happening? I imagine there's some confusing stuff going on in this run, plus it would be a good opportunity to point out to future runners spots where play is suboptimal and possible improvements and such.
It wasn't a typo. From what I see in people's comments (can't be arsed to watch an OoT movie myself, you know I dislike the game), this run is faster, not better.
And by better, I mean "using the present knowledge to its potential", or in other words, doing everything right. If it contains a couple new glitches but fails at generic optimization, it would be a mistake to accept it. Accepting the previous run I consider a mistake as well. I don't see how making a mistake in the past justifies making a mistake in the present.
Also, I should note that the two runs aren't in exactly same conditions. One is already published and can't be unpublished, another isn't published (yet). No-one is obliged to publish it.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It wasn't a typo. From what I see in people's comments (can't be arsed to watch an OoT movie myself, you know I dislike the game), this run is faster, not better.
And by better, I mean "using the present knowledge to its potential", or in other words, doing everything right. If it contains a couple new glitches but fails at generic optimization, it would be a mistake to accept it. Accepting the previous run I consider a mistake as well.
All fair points. Agree to disagree. Not like I can argue in any case, I didn't watch the movie either.
Also, I should note that the two runs aren't in exactly same conditions. One is already published and can't be unpublished, another isn't published (yet). No-one is obliged to publish it.
The older run was unoptimized at the start but once Hyrule was entered the run became a lot more acceptable, with not to many strategic errors after that. People seem to confuse the last one through being unoptimized through not using up to date methods, this one uses the up to date methods but does not move well from A to B.
id just like to point out that since a very unoptimized dkr run was just published it probably creates a murky area here... and dont say that isnt a relevant event
regardless, i will be a coward fence-sitter and just "meh" to placate both sides
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
this is me wrote:
id just like to point out that since a very unoptimized dkr run was just published it probably creates a murky area here... and dont say that isnt a relevant event
That isn't a relevant event. watching the same thing over and over is boring. the unoptimized-ness of dkr was varying the route ever so slightly every lap.
In this run theres human error, parts of the run performed incorrectly. I wouldn't call that the same. SORRY NO BONUS
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
id just like to point out that since a very unoptimized dkr run was just published it probably creates a murky area here... and dont say that isnt a relevant event
That isn't a relevant event. watching the same thing over and over is boring. the unoptimized-ness of dkr was varying the route ever so slightly every lap.
In this run theres human error, parts of the run performed incorrectly. I wouldn't call that the same. SORRY NO BONUS
you didnt watch the dkr run then, there were tons of human error which were listed in detail by multiple viewers who knew the game well
or perhaps you just didnt know the game well
or looked at the thread
or any number of other things
id just like to point out that since a very unoptimized dkr run was just published it probably creates a murky area here... and dont say that isnt a relevant event
That isn't a relevant event. watching the same thing over and over is boring. the unoptimized-ness of dkr was varying the route ever so slightly every lap.
In this run theres human error, parts of the run performed incorrectly. I wouldn't call that the same. SORRY NO BONUS
you didnt watch the dkr run then, there were tons of human error which were listed in detail by multiple viewers who knew the game well
or perhaps you just didnt know the game well
or looked at the thread
or any number of other things
Actually, I never thought about that. The DKR tas is very rough around the edges, but since it's the first run of the game, we are more foriving toward it. You could also say that the "roughness" was masked because in this game everything flows well. I guess you could say that the DKR run was consistently "rough."
The mistakes in OOT are more glaring since they break the continuity of run. I didn't see that happening too much in DKR. I guess you could say that this game was inconsistently rough in some places, and smooth in others.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
this is me wrote:
you didnt watch the dkr run then, there were tons of human error which were listed in detail by multiple viewers who knew the game well
or perhaps you just didnt know the game well
or looked at the thread
or any number of other things
Riiiight.
From what I can see, you were one of the only people who tried to pick apart the game, which isn't itself a problem except he and others came up with excuses for why things were done (myself included). So the fact you suggest I didn't watch the run OR look at the thread is baffling considering I was one of the people questioning what you were saying!
As for the knowing the game well, I was sketchy on the mechanics, but xenos provided some good documentation and I did at one point own the original cart (which was completed, by the way).
Edit: Just thought I'd add that comparing this run and the DKR run is way off; you'd do better to compare the previous OoT run with the DKR run. From what I can see, they are more alike than the comparison you are trying above.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
I just finished watching and I have mixed feelings about this one.
While this movie did have its highlights, there were also more than a few places where it was inexcusably sloppy. And unlike Guano's first submission, the "errors" weren't due to new glitches being discovered long after the run had begun (and restarted three times), but due to laziness on the runner's part.
For example, the many failed superslides that the runner didn't bother to correct. Taking the Odd Mushroom out before reaching the counter. Pulling on a bomb flower in Dodongo's Cavern when there was no reason to do so. What reason is there not to have used re-recording to rectify those mistakes, when the whole point of having tools is to use them to eliminate human error?
So, meh vote.
Wait if this movie sux, that means the published one...
The published one uses a whole different strategy that involves actually going to temples and collecting medallions (as opposed to glitching them), so it's not really fair to compare the two.
