Topic by Neophos

Posted: 10/5/2008 3:04 PM

Post subject: Re: I'll bite.

Quote

Neophos

Joined: 9/30/2007
Posts: 103

jimsfriend wrote:

It can be helpful to point out to people where their theology is wrong

Thelogy. The understanding of gods... Isn't it quite arrogant to claim to have a greater understanding of a supreme being then another just-as-lowly person? Of course, arrogance is quite a big part of most major religions, but just because the teachings are hypocritical shouldn't mean all the followers should be so eager to follow suit. And, just to be sure, being "wrong on theology" in this context pretty much means "you believe anything other then the teachings of christianity as I've been tought", right? After all, each and every different teaching of the religion would have small but probably notable differences depending on what the teacher thought to be important, not to mention translations, how it meshes with traditions, both those of family and country and probably dozens more small details. I wouldn't want to be in the wrong just because my hovercraft is full of eels.

Posted: 10/5/2008 5:33 PM

Post subject: Re: I'll bite.

Quote

Warp

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

Neophos wrote:

Isn't it quite arrogant to claim to have a greater understanding of a supreme being then another just-as-lowly person? Of course, arrogance is quite a big part of most major religions, but just because the teachings are hypocritical shouldn't mean all the followers should be so eager to follow suit.

This is exactly the type of text which always follows from discussions about religion, which is exactly the reason why I have always protested against discussing about the subject here. It's beating a dead horse. There's *nothing* positive that anyone can get from it. It saddens me that even this forum cannot be free from this. I have pleaded in the past (in this very same thread, if I remember correctly) that people would just skip this subject. But I suppose that's a hopeless wish. Well, whatever. If you want to beat the dead horse, then go ahead. Who am I to protest?

Posted: 10/5/2008 5:53 PM

Quote

moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Warp, it also saddens me that you cannot be freed from this either. Google for the Zen story of two monks and a girl.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/6/2008 3:49 AM

Post subject: Hook, line, and sinker.

Quote

jimsfriend

Former player

Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

>>You see, it's exactly that kind of *attitude* which makes any type of actual conversation moot and pointless. I have a bad attitude. I distort the bible. I bet I also don't really have any intention of carrying out a useful conversation with Bisqwit, and am just trying to stir up trouble. And I'm just trying to attack Bisqwit's stance on Bible using the scriptures as Satan would, to deceive, if possible, even the elect. And I really don't want to know how I'm distorting the Bible, because I already know, right? I'm intentionally manipulating God's revelation to us in order to promote an atheist agenda, and use Bible to convince Bisqwit that his God is not so loving after all? If I'm wrong, and you don't have these assumptions about me, please let me know. I wouldn't want to have wrong ideas about you, but right now it looks like you don't want to waste your time correcting someone who obviously doesn't really want to know what it is they did wrong. >>There's *nothing* positive that anyone can get from it. You see, it's exactly that kind of *attitude* which makes any type of actual conversation moot and pointless. >>Re: Neophos Wrong theology in this context is any interpretation of scripture that can be shown to contradict passages of scripture. It must not come from one's own culture or tradition or etc. The Bible must be the source. If you think your translation might be inaccurate (this can often be the case with word gender and verb tense when translating to English), you should consult the New Testament in the original Greek and the Old Testament in the original Hebrew. If you don't know these languages (most people don't), you can ask someone who does for clarification. You can also look to several translations in your language to see what elements they have in common. You can also pray. >>It's beating a dead horse. Perhaps we should throw the horse into Elisha's tomb. >>I have pleaded in the past [...] that people would just skip this subject. Why would we skip the most important subject in existence? Because some people might make fun of us, or try to stop or derail our discussion? http://bisqbot.stc.cx/kjvquote/act4:1-31 >>Re: Boco http://bisqbot.stc.cx/kjvquote/rom9:13-23.php Is that what you were wanting Bisqwit to reread? That was the most relevant thing I could find near there.

Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign aqfaq Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign

Posted: 10/6/2008 8:55 AM

Quote

pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

moozooh wrote:

Google for the Zen story of two monks and a girl.

bah.. I thought it was pr0n... and Bisqwit... disegard the brazilian subtitles... Do you think your future will be the same of the guy at the end of this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UXkwGiGpsI

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 10/6/2008 12:49 PM

Post subject: I'm like a fish

Quote

Neophos

Joined: 9/30/2007
Posts: 103

jimsfriend wrote:

Wrong theology in this context is any interpretation of scripture that can be shown to contradict passages of scripture. It must not come from one's own culture or tradition or etc. The Bible must be the source. If you think your translation might be inaccurate (this can often be the case with word gender and verb tense when translating to English), you should consult the New Testament in the original Greek and the Old Testament in the original Hebrew. If you don't know these languages (most people don't), you can ask someone who does for clarification. You can also look to several translations in your language to see what elements they have in common.

So instead of reading a possibly inaccurate translation, I should ask someone else for a possibly inaccurate translation? And "the bible" is both the old and new testament together, right? Because in that case, with the old testament mostly being a mishmash of various pagan stories, fairy tales and other classical stories mostly made up for having a moral lesson at the end, it wouldn't be very hard to find contradicting stuff. So should I blissfully ignore every contradicting thing I can find in a properly translated bible, or should I keep claiming that every contradiction in a book written over hundreds of years by probably the same amount of authors is just a case of someone using Babelfish to translate it? And pray? Excuse me for being cynical, but I hardly think the great and mighty God with a capital letter would bother telling me "no, actually, that previous sentences tense is wrong. Kids these days translating my books." just because I kneel.

Posted: 10/6/2008 2:43 PM

Quote

Ramzi

Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459

Hey Bisqwit where do you see programming languages going in the upcoming decades. Do you think they should become better or worse? Why don't you design your own programming language, that's like, better than the current ones. And, you know, not worse then them? Answer my questions!

Posted: 10/9/2008 11:14 AM
(Edited: 10/9/2008 4:18 PM)

Quote

DaTeL237

Active player (353)

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands

If you could choose a person to meet in real life, who would it be and why? a) someone tat is currently alive b) anybody that ever existed edit: c) anybody that ever existed, but not from a holy book

TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]

Posted: 10/9/2008 11:28 AM

Quote

Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

DaTeL237 wrote:

If you could choose a person to meet in real life, who would it be and why? b) anybody that ever existed

I'd be very surprised if it's not Jesus. If it indeed isn't Jesus, then I would really like to know why.

Posted: 10/11/2008 7:05 AM

Quote

IST

Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 103

nfq wrote:

Bisqwit wrote:
"Time" becomes meaningless. How long should such a punishment be, when time is meaningless? A week is like a hour. 100000 years is like 3 months.
the better we feel the faster time goes (ie. it becomes more meaningless) and the worse we feel the slower it seems to go. so i don't think time is entirely meaningless in "hell", but it seems to go much slower. if time is meaningless in hell, it means that time does not exist, and if time does not exist, nothing can exist.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression Hell as described by the Christian Bible isn't connected to this reality at all. If that is true, wouldn't Time not existing be possible? After all, it's not abiding by the rules of this universe, rather ones made for that "universe". I'm far from the most knowledgeable about this, however, so I could be wrong.

Posted: 10/12/2008 1:06 PM

Quote

Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Kyrsimys wrote:

DaTeL237 wrote:
If you could choose a person to meet in real life, who would it be and why? b) anybody that ever existed
I'd be very surprised if it's not Jesus. If it indeed isn't Jesus, then I would really like to know why.

No, he said anybody that ever existed. :) Sorry, just had to...I'll stop now.

Posted: 10/14/2008 8:30 PM

Quote

Rridgway

Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta

Dam, this topic can't go longer than 32 pages without the religousness happening.

Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?

Posted: 10/17/2008 3:12 AM

Quote

Ramzi

Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459

Ramzi wrote:

Hey Bisqwit where do you see programming languages going in the upcoming decades. Do you think they should become better or worse? Why don't you design your own programming language, that's like, better than the current ones. And, you know, not worse then them? Answer my questions!

Posted: 10/17/2008 5:54 AM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Ramzi wrote:

Answer my questions!

Sorry, but I have been quite busy last week, and I want to have proper time to think and reply to jimsfriend's post ― and I think it wouldn't do justice to reply to others while ignoring his post.

Posted: 10/24/2008 3:59 PM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Boco wrote:

I would like you (and the author of this apologist site you quoted) to reread Romans especially 11-14 because seriously.

Oh, "because seriously". That changes everything.

Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00 PM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Neophos wrote:

Does God use his "divine power" to make sure that our actions contribute to whatever his plans are on the whole, or does he, to put it simply, predict everything we do perfectly? Essentially, do we just live in an illusion of free will, but God will make damn sure that you follow his plan he spent probably all of one godly second to make, or is he just winging it with style?

That question falls to the "impossible to know" category.

Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00 PM

Post subject: Re: I'll bite.

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Neophos wrote:

Thelogy. The understanding of gods... Isn't it quite arrogant to claim to have a greater understanding of a supreme being then another just-as-lowly person?

Is it arrogant to claim to have a greater understanding of electromagnetism than another person? Is it arrogant to claim to have a greater understanding of food preparation than another person? Is it arrogant to claim to understand your friend better than someone else does? It's not like these discussions are to push us to some high pedestal. It is to share understanding of what a wonderful God we have.

Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00 PM

Post subject: Re: Hook, line, and sinker.

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

jimsfriend wrote:

I'm intentionally manipulating God's revelation to us in order to promote an atheist agenda, and use Bible to convince Bisqwit that his God is not so loving after all?

That's about the impression I'm getting :) The Devil also uses the Bible... twisting its meaning, still using the very words written in the text. Sometimes only a person who lives spiritually close to God, following his will, can figure out what's amiss with the claims. I'm obviously referring here to the situation where the Messiah was being tempted by Satan. I'm not that blessed yet -- that's why I say that my life is undergoing a change -- but I try to answer what I can. In case of your post addressed to me, an insight of how to reply, or a will to check out all the passages you referred to, has not struck me. I will therefore satisfy with merely this post. Forgive me. Note: This is not to say that you are Devil. You might be influenced by him, though. Most people are. Me, too.

Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00 PM
(Edited: 10/24/2008 4:08 PM)

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

pirate_sephiroth wrote:

Bisqwit... disegard the brazilian subtitles... Do you think your future will be the same of the guy at the end of this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UXkwGiGpsI

That depends -- whether I get to live until that happens, and whether I am "awake" when it happens (Matt 25:1-13) -- but I of course hope so.

Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00 PM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Ramzi wrote:

Hey Bisqwit where do you see programming languages going in the upcoming decades. Do you think they should become better or worse? Why don't you design your own programming language, that's like, better than the current ones. And, you know, not worse then them?

New (and old) concepts keep coming up, and new programming languages are always made. It's hard to tell which ones become popular and which one do not. Part of it depends on marketing. There are enough programming languages in the world already, and I cannot honestly think any way of inventing a new programming language that wouldn't be just a rehashing of some other programming language.

Posted: 10/24/2008 4:00 PM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

DaTeL237 wrote:

If you could choose a person to meet in real life, who would it be and why? a) someone tat is currently alive b) anybody that ever existed c) anybody that ever existed, but not from a holy book

a) SCENE: Bisqwit meets ____. _____: Hi, how are you doing. Bisqwit: ... Hi, fine I guess. Bisqwit: ... There isn't particularly anyone. As for any famous person, I don't think I'd be even on a level to talk with them. Well, as for the Messiah, sure I would like to meet him now, but I can wait. It's not like I'll miss my chance. b) Well, if language barrier was not a problem, it would be John the apostle. But again, I can wait. It's not like time is going to be an issue. c) See a). Well, if I twist the meaning of "ever existed" slightly, that person would be my future wife. Also, there are many people from #nesvideos whom I would possibly like to meet some day and talk with. Xkeeper, for instance. But then again, it could just result in the dialog shown in a). Either way.

Posted: 11/18/2008 2:48 PM

Quote

Raiscan

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom

From the announcement page:

Bisqwit wrote:

The reason I'm doing this is because I feel that God is calling me for some job, and TASVideos responsibility is an obstacle for that job.

Did this happen recently? May I ask what kind of job you're going for? Does administrating TASVideos really take up that much of your spare time? Pry-tastic.

<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs

Posted: 11/18/2008 3:09 PM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Raiscan wrote:

Did this happen recently? May I ask what kind of job you're going for? Does administrating TASVideos really take up that much of your spare time?

Relatively recently, yes. I did mention starting in September that I'm following curiously which direction God wants to lead my life. I still don't know what is the complete plan; I only know that it has something to do with Jews. And yes, administrating TASVideos indeed takes too much of my spare time. I realize I could easily take week long leaves from it and nobody would care, but I don't want to abandon it. I want new maintainers for it. I could still continue to host it, but I want to grant the responsible people full access to it without granting full access to other things on my server. That, and I want things so that I could easily shut down my server for whatever reason without inconveniencing lots of people.

Posted: 11/19/2008 8:06 AM

Post subject: Re: I'll bite.

Quote

Neophos

Joined: 9/30/2007
Posts: 103

Bisqwit wrote:

Is it arrogant to claim to have a greater understanding of electromagnetism than another person? It's not like these discussions are to push us to some high pedestal. It is to share understanding of what a wonderful God we have.

Of course, being that one is a natural force and one is made up by humans...Sorry, couldn't resist such an obvious quip. Knowledge is about proving stuff, and you can easily prove (or disprove) knowledge about electromagnetics or food preparation. When it comes to the area of supernatural beings, if you claim to have a higher understanding of stuff you yourself claim is ununderstandable, that's arrogant. Or business, depending on whether you're the host of one of those silly "find ghosts in subways" shows or not.

Posted: 11/19/2008 2:08 PM

Quote

Bablo

Player (223)

Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399

Dear Bisqwit, How much does one's ego affect on everyday life? What would change if people were anonymous?

<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse