1. You say blahblahblah only Christians get into heaven, Jesus this and that, yadda yadda. But if the body is fleeting and the soul/spirit (what is the difference there?) are everlasting, what in actuality is the significance of corporeal death with respect to affirming religious belief? That is, why is there a functional difference between accepting Jesus before and after death? I am an atheist and likely always will be one. Not because I am incapable of changing my mind, but because, let's be honest, magic isn't real. However, if, when I die, I am brought before Jesus/God (is there a difference there, either?), it seems likely that after a time I will be able to be convinced I am really dead, I'm not hallucinating, God is real, etc., then I would certainly be willing to admit to God that I believe in him. Furthermore, if God could then convince me that he has absolutely nothing in common with Christianity as it is represented today, and that he's as flabbergasted as the next deity as to how much we humans manage to fuck things up, I might even be willing to "accept him as my savior" inasmuch as that has any meaning. Supposing I do, why can't I get into heaven?
2. I'm actually a pretty decent guy. It's unlikely I'll ever do anything really bad in my life. For example, rape, murder, and religious indoctrination of innocent children are out of the question. Why do you want to believe in a god that would cast me down into eternal hellfire just because I won't suck his cock?
3. I've been told that the only unforgivable sin is to renounce God, or some such. Is that right? Why is that such a big deal? Is it really more acceptable for me to rape your mother, murder her, and then lock you in a cell with nothing to eat but her flesh? (P.S. I'd give you a stove if you don't like rare meat.) (P.P.S. I've read stories equally reprehensible in the Bible, why is God such a sick fuck?)
4. I renounce God. Am I even human any more? Do I deserve to live? Is it ok for people to kill me? I'm just going to hell anyway, right? Should I have any rights?
5. Is God powerful enough to create an angel stupid enough to fight him? I mean, he's all powerful. I guess the answer is yes by definition, but then who would be stupid enough to defy him? Especially if you have first hand experience that's he's real, as Lucifer surely did? None of this religious stuff makes any sense! I'm beginning to think Greedo shot first!
6. How come Christian mythology is more believable than that of any other religion? Had you been born in India, we can both agree it is almost a certainty you would not be Christian. So much of the bullshit that shapes our thoughts and beliefs is cultural, and culture is shaped by local tradition. Why do you believe the belief system into which you were born is the correct one?
7. Suppose you were in a position of power over a large number of people who are easily manipulated and didn't have too much common sense. Your task is to design a belief system you can push upon them that will solidify, perpetuate, and increase your power, as well as minimize the likelihood that a rebellion will form or succeed. How would your fictional belief system differ from Christianity? What would they have in common?
8. What is your take on various contradictions in the Bible? Also, why is there so much in the Bible that has no relevance to modern life? Why does it seem like theology is the only human pursuit that doesn't change and evolve to accommodate increases in knowledge? (Reluctantly changing to belatedly accommodate certain mores when under enormous social pressure doesn't count.) Will Christianity always be stuck in the past?
Dear xebra,
Why do you bother repeating the exact same questions atheists have been asking again and again, millions of times, non-stop for centuries, especially since the motive behind presenting these questions is not to honestly get an answer but to critique someone else's beliefs? No answer Bisqwit can give you will make you content because, as all atheists, you are not really asking these questions to get an answer but to critique his beliefs and express your dissenting opinion.
Do you honestly think that Bisqwit, or any believer for that matter, hasn't heard those questions countless times? The real purpose of those questions is moot. It's not like you were the first person to present them.
Repeating the same questions again and again is pointless. You are certainly not the first one to present them. You are just repeating what others have said. There's no originality. The point behind those question has already been presented millions of times. Repeating this point has no value and is moot. You are not seeking for answers, so why do you even present these points as questions? Why can't you simply express your opinion with regular sentences instead of questions?
If I were Bisqwit I would skip even trying to answer those questions. There are two reasons for this: Trying to answer them would only be repeating what other believers have been saying for as long as the questions have been presented, and repeating those answers here would be exactly as moot as the questions themselves. Secondly, answering to the question is simply submitting to the provocation and it only asks for a fruitless discussion which will lead nowhere.
Please skip it. It would be boring and it would degrade the interest of this thread.
xebra wrote:I was going to answer your questions, but the language you used in question 2 basically confirmed what Warp wrote; you aren't asking to get answers. You're just expressing your hatred. Your questions are loaded with offensive attitude towards Christianity.
Sorry to disappoint those who wanted actual answers.
xebra wrote:I was going to answer your questions, but the language you used in question 2 basically confirmed what Warp wrote; you aren't asking to get answers. You're just expressing your hatred. Your questions are loaded with offensive attitude towards Christianity.
Sorry to disappoint those who wanted actual answers.
I'm not Christian, so I really doubt I'm capable of the fervor required to actually hate something. I asked my questions because I wanted to hear actual responses to them. It's true they were phrased offensively, and intentionally so. My attitude is somewhat understandable, though, as I was miffed that you lied about not being bothered by taunting questions.
Also, get a fucking grip, man. You've told me in no uncertain terms that I am going to spend an eternity in agony in hell. You're pissed off because I called you a cock sucker? You are a cock sucker, and a hypocrite, and an irrational bigot, and so many other things that cause so much misery to so many people. And yet, I still won't brush you off and condemn you to eternal damnation just yet. God, I'm magnanimous!
Is it the doctor's fault if he tells the patient that they have a lung cancer? Even if that's only what the doctor's education suggests from the patient's symptoms and from the patient's point of view, there is a chance that the doctor may be wrong.
You have more than once resorted to senseless trolling / flaming when something does not go your way. I do not like to give in to that kind of behavior. Hence I will continue to ignore your questions until they get more civilized.
Is it the doctor's fault if he tells the patient that they have a lung cancer? Even if that's only what the doctor's education suggests from the patient's symptoms and from the patient's point of view, there is a chance that the doctor may be wrong.
Doctors based their diagnoses on verifiable evidence, you know. They also don't tell their patients they are morally corrupt for smoking, just that research has shown and most doctors agree that inhaling carcinogens tends to be unhealthy in the long run. Oh, and I forgot to call you a coward up there, as well.
They also don't tell their patients they are morally corrupt for smoking
That's not part of their job as a doctor either.
However, as a Christian it is part of my "job" to tell frankly what the Bible teaches.
However, I suppose you did not get my hint. I am blocking your ability to post for 48 hours, for insulting and for attempts to derail this thread.
EDIT: To clarify what I wanted to express:
-- A doctor utilizes their expertise on medical knowledge to issue a diagnosis.
-- A Christian person utilizes their expertise on Bible for spiritual consulting.
If you disagree with either person's words, is the person to blame for that?
Furthermore, if your point is that you disagree with Bible, why do you take that on me personally?
My foundation is that Bible is right. You cannot make me say otherwise. Attempts to ask questions that require some other foundation are exactly the kind of "loaded" questions I stated in the thread starting post that I will ignore, for they are unfruitful from my perspective.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
xebra wrote:
A lot of stupid things..
Wow xebra.. guess I was right after all. You havent changed a bit. Too bad. I am extremely surprised you did not get banned. And Bisqwit, Im utterly amazed how cool you were with the whole situation.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
They also don't tell their patients they are morally corrupt for smoking
That's not part of their job as a doctor either.
However, as a Christian it is part of my "job" to tell frankly what the Bible teaches.
However, I suppose you did not get my hint. I am blocking your ability to post for 48 hours, for insulting and for attempts to derail this thread.
What do you think of Robert Alter's exegesis in The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary concerning the pathological mistranslation of nefesh as "soul"?
What do you think of Robert Alter's exegesis in The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary concerning the pathological mistranslation of nefesh as "soul"?
I think that's something I haven't read.
And, I don't know Hebrew.
...the pathological mistranslation of nefesh as "soul"?
Nephesh means, more closely, "life" or "living thing" or "animating force". It's not exclusive to humans. The terms for these kinds of things are hard to render in English, so soul would be adequate except that there are other parts - like the ruach and the neshemah - who would like the term better.
I have no idea who that guy was, but there you go. I'll stop answering Bisqwit's questions now... (maybe I should make a religion topic?)
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Nephesh means, more closely, "life" or "living thing" or "animating force". It's not exclusive to humans. The terms for these kinds of things are hard to render in English, so soul would be adequate except that there are other parts - like the ruach and the neshemah - who would like the term better.
I have no idea who that guy was, but there you go. I'll stop answering Bisqwit's questions now... (maybe I should make a religion topic?)
You actually can't stop answering Bisqwit's questions because you never started. Your response has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked.
Your response has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked.
You asked "What do you think of some random guy's claim that 'nephesh' is mistranslated when rendered as 'soul'?" and I responded with "It's true, 'nphesh' is mistranslated when rendered as 'soul'"...where did I miss the question?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
What do you think of Robert Alter's exegesis in The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary concerning the pathological mistranslation of nefesh as "soul"?
I think that's something I haven't read.
And, I don't know Hebrew.
Is that responsible? Your "foundation is that the bible is right," and you, as a Christian, "utilize your expertise on the bible for spiritual consulting" and consider it your "job to tell frankly what the bible teaches." Yet you apparently have little actual expertise on the subject, nor seem to care to. (Or does expertise mean to you, "an interpretation that agrees with my indoctrination"?)
For something that is so central to your being, wouldn't it behoove you to educate yourself on that which you believe to be the absolute truth? Or is it good enough for you to believe in the absolute truth filtered through thousands of years of miscopying, mistranslating, political influence, and hidden agendas?
For something that is so central to your being, wouldn't it behoove you to educate yourself on that which you believe to be the absolute truth?
I'm also an expert on PHP programming, yet I do not know precisely how PHP implements Arrays.
I do not need to be obsessed with every little detail in order to be knowledgeable about something.
Anyway, I would appreciate it if you switch to another topic. Obviously chances are that I am biased, but regardless, I don't think it's far fetched to say that from us two, it is you to whom the word "fanatic" applies more precisely.
I'm also an expert on PHP programming, yet I do not know precisely how PHP implements Arrays.
I do not need to be obsessed with every little detail in order to be knowledgeable about something.
Your analogy is not apt, and surely you know this. First of all, Christianity is not PHP programming, and you don't believe PHP programming is capable of magic, and neither will it result in the eternal damnation of souls. Secondly, my (real, actual) example didn't nitpick some minor detail. It nitpicked the very concept of the soul. Thirdly, talking about the existence of the soul (and biblical support one way or the other) is not equivalent to talking about the inscrutable inner workings of complicated technology in any way.
Anyway, I would appreciate it if you switch to another topic. Obviously chances are that I am biased, but regardless, I don't think it's far fetched to say that from us two, it is you to whom the word "fanatic" applies more precisely.
English isn't your first language, so you are forgiven for not knowing exactly what fanatic means: "a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics." My enthusiasm may be extreme, but it is not uncritical. Unlike you, I am certainly willing to evaluate my own beliefs with a critical eye. If you hadn't been unartfully dodging every question I've asked in this thread, you might have had an opportunity to cause me to do so. Anyway, if you lied a few pages back and this discussion really does make you uncomfortable, then don't make a thread called "Ask Bisqwit" and then state you don't mind mocking questions about your faith. Or, hell, you could always do what Jesus would do and just ban me again.
[Edit by Bisqwit: Removed large picture that had no clear connection to message's content.]
xebra, as much as your questions are fascinating and I would like to spend the little intellectual effort in answering them, the way you present them makes you seem such a jerk, that if I answered them, I would feel exactly the same as when grabbing a troll's bait.
I don't care what you think; I will ignore your questions from now on.
EDIT: I was also going to add here a personal advise for your life, based on things we have discussed a long time ago and how you recently have come forth at me, but on second thinking, I don't think that's going to help any. Of course, you will likely want to mock this paragraph as well, but you should know by now that it wouldn't do anyone any good.
EDIT 2: Others are free to ask the same questions but without coming forth as a jerk.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
xebra wrote:
English isn't your first language, so you are forgiven for not knowing exactly what fanatic means: "a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics."
No matter what you claim, an anti-religious fanatic is exactly what you come off as. We get it. You're an atheist. You hate God, or don't believe in him, or hate others who believe in him. Enough already. It's old and played out. So just drop it. I find your other posts intelligent and well thought out, but for the sake of your reputation, quit trying to pick fights and go back to being the xebra people like to talk to and listen to.
What is your personal favorite chapter/verse/other length of excerpt from the Bible?
Can I guess at yours?
1 Corinthians 14 (NIV)
34Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
1 Timothy 2 (NIV)
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
----
P.S. I have it on good authority (the Highest) that Phil favors these two:
Ezekiel 23 (NIV)
20There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
Deuteronomy 23 (FBM)
2No one with crushed testes or lopped member shall come into the LORD's assembly.
Xebra, shut up.
Bisqwit isn't "radically Christian", you are radically idiotic.
I'm atheist as well, and I don't like Christianity myself, but I will respect anyone who believes in it.
