"Real", as in... tool-assisted? Or... real as in... ... no, I am sorry, I can not figure out any other way a TAS can be real. Please explain.

He may be referring to the speedrun interpretation, as opposed to the superplay interpretation, but I'm guessing he was just making another Chalame statement.

Select your goals well Choose goals that will make the run entertaining. For most games, a “fastest at any cost” mentality is best (short of using passwords, saves, or cheats). For fighting games, autoscrollers, and scoring games, it is usually better to show off as many combos and tricks as possible, instead of going for fastest time. You are permitted to trade off speed for entertainment, if you want to. Make it so that the speed loss is not obvious to the viewer. Use this with caution. Examples of other goals that have been popular are pacifist, no damage, all items (usually called 100%), no warps, or runs with a slower character. Not using a specific bug which lets you end the game very quickly can make for an interesting movie, which shows more of the game. The point is that whatever goals you choose, it should look impressive. Always stay within your goals. For example, if you say that you will obtain all items, obtain all items. Goals must be clear and objective; they must not be vague. Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as “No usage of this particular weapon”, “Both high score and fast time” (how should we compare that run to a future one?), or “No jumping except where necessary”. It is possible to set auxiliary goals, such as “as high a score as possible without wasting time”, but, as stated, it must not interfere with the primary goal of fastest completion. Please note that we do not accept an indefinite number of variants for any given game. Any more than 3 for a game is very uncommon. Most games have only one movie, simply going as fast as possible with any means. A handful of games also have a movie which shows more of the game, such as no warps, or 100% items, or without a glitch that takes you straight to the end.

I think that is what "real" TAS means

Theres such a thing as an exception to the rule which proves the rule worthy. Except I think the rules are just out of date. Or are they guidelines? Edit: Or as moozooh has proven below, there is no exception..

Selective reading, huh?

For most games, a “fastest at any cost” mentality is best (short of using passwords, saves, or cheats). For fighting games, autoscrollers, and scoring games, it is usually better to show off as many combos and tricks as possible, instead of going for fastest time.

RCR is technically a fighting game. The rest mostly applied to the "as fast as possible" type of movies, e.g.:

You are permitted to trade off speed for entertainment, if you want to…

…which can never be the case if the speed isn't the primary objective to begin with;

It is possible to set auxiliary goals, such as “as high a score as possible without wasting time”, but, as stated, it must not interfere with the primary goal of fastest completion

— self-explanatory. I'm not sure what exceptions are you people referring to, since none of the rules have been broken to begin with.

I did not go into selective reading. I simply highlighted how this video doesn't fit into the rules. It did do combos during the fighting portions, that is fine. Were it doesn't fit: Entertainment is neither CLEAR nor OBJECTIVE. Many things done in the run were extremely OBVIOUS TIME WASTERS. You didn't address either of these, just showed were it did fit the rules. Anyway, screw it, the damage is done. It's published were 'real' and 'Objective' speedruns are. I also don't want Adelikat or JXQ to think I'm a bastard because I didn't like this run. So I'm done.

words

I'm not entirely sure what your qualm is. Entertainment IS a CLEAR and OBJECTIVE goal; it's the interpretation on whether or not it was achieved that is the debate. As for time wasters, well... that's really not an issue here, is it?

I understand that it's debatable whether or not this run should have been published. I'm not trying to prove that I'm right (like some people futilely try to do). I really enjoyed this one. I don't remember when was the last time I didn't fast-forward at all. I don't feel like I wasted my time, instead, I remembered why I started watching these videos in the first place - they were amusing. Lately (=over a year or two) all runs have had excellent quality speedwise, but have mostly lacked something I quite can't describe. Sometimes I feel like we are establishing a new branch of science. I demand more entertainment for now on.

Now that things have (hopefully) calmed down. I still want justifcation as to why this isn't a pride movie.

I don't understand. Why would it be a pride movie?

because it's entertaining, damn it. stop ruining people's fun with strict guidelines on every little aspect of the website.

First you need to define "pride movie".

I don't understand. Why would it be a pride movie?

Because no-one has proven it isn't! Duh!

Here's the most I could get out of why he thinks it's a pride movie back a few weeks ago. I post this because I don't expect him to answer the question himself. <JXQ> Hey, is there a reason you don't want to answer the question in my PM? <AKA> Hi JXQ, I'm surprised to see you here. <JXQ> well I don't really know how else to have a conversation with you <AKA> You seem to be impatient because I haven't replied to you within the first hours. <AKA> Have you ever seen DeepBlueVibes Shinobi 3 run? <JXQ> Well, I figured that this wouldn't be something you'd have to think about. I figured you would have a reason for saying what you did and would just be able to reply with it at that time <JXQ> I don't think I have, no <AKA> It on YouTube somewhere I think, although I might find it within the GENS threads. <JXQ> Does it relate to the RCR run somehow or your comments of it being done for pride? <JXQ> I'm not quite following <AKA> http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3997 <JXQ> I'm still not sure how this relates <AKA> Basically the run wasn't very objective and has no real goals. <JXQ> so you're saying it's similar to the run adelikat and I submitted? <AKA> It reminds me of that run in certain ways. <JXQ> I see your post here that says you liked the run and would vote yes to an optimized version of it <JXQ> so which parts of our run were not similar and made you think we were doing it for pride/ego? <AKA> Thats becuase the amount of time he sacrifices is overly excessive for very minor entertainment trade offs. <AKA> Which makes the movie not very objective. <JXQ> right, it's entertainment-based which can create a wide variety of opinions, etc. <JXQ> ok so <AKA> a subjective run requires a subjective vote. <JXQ> I agree <JXQ> I'm not questioning your vote or your opinion of not liking the movie or agreeing with its goals or anything like that <AKA> Beating each other up worked well in Double Dragon 2 but not in RCR. <JXQ> I'm just wondering, what made you think we did this movie for pride/ego? <AKA> The movie wasn't objective and instead was just a playthrough which is more commonly seen on superpl <AKA> *superplays <JXQ> So just to be clear.. because our movie did not aim for speed (or any other objective goal) and instead aimed for entertainment (a subjective goal), you think we did this movie for pride/ego? <AKA> I don't mind if the movie is primerly entertainment as long as its objective. I thinking about doing a Streets of Rage 1 run which sacrifices time to show different ways to defeat enemies on screen. <JXQ> Just want to make sure I understand.. since our entertainment goals were not objective, you inferred that we did this movie for pride/ego? <AKA> The run was more like watching a playthrough. <JXQ> Is that what makes you think we did it for pride/ego? <JXQ> I feel like you're avoiding the question directly. I'm just trying to understand your point of view <AKA> Runs like this make it very hard to have any future obseletion. <JXQ> So of these things you've listed, which of them made you think that we played for pride/ego? <AKA> Are you asking if you think the movie was more based on pride or ego? <JXQ> No, I'm asking what specifically made you think it was either <JXQ> I say "pride/ego" because you mentioned both in your post <AKA> I'm pretty sure you once said a movie should play for entertainment and not ego. Although I can't remember who you said it to or what context. <JXQ> I agree with that statement <AKA> Or if it was you said it. <JXQ> I probably quoted it from the Guidelines or Rules or wherever it is <JXQ> Why do you think we played this movie for ego? <JXQ> What would you have said in your post if you said "This movie is a pride movie played for ego, *BECAUSE* ....." ? <AKA> I have not specifically stated what I think a pride movie is in the forum becuase I don't want to get into a war over discrediting. <JXQ> You dont' have to tell me what you think a pride movie is. I'm just wondering what made you think that ours was one <JXQ> If you don't have a reason, then just say so <AKA> It'll force a argument of your points are weaker than mine rather that what I prefer of my point is stronger than yours. <JXQ> I'm not going to argue about whether its a pride movie or not <JXQ> I'm just trying to understand why you think it is, so maybe I can work on it in the future <JXQ> Obviously you said those comments with some thoughts behind them; why do you seem afraid to tell me those thoughts? <AKA> Basically, my view of a pride movie is either a series of confused goals that strictly apply to the game like "only uses missiles in SM when absolutley neccsary" or a series of confused goals. <JXQ> Ok, that helps me understand your point of view better, thank you <JXQ> If I called that same type of movie something like, umm.. "unstructured", would that seem to fit your definition as well? <AKA> Yes, much like the Shinobi 3 run I linked. <JXQ> okay <JXQ> I understand now, I think <JXQ> Thanks for discussing this with me <AKA> Although a one very simple restriction like no blj's or small mario only can work. <JXQ> right <AKA> While still aiming for the fastest time. <AKA> As in relation to ego... <AKA> The movie fails to be objective and often takes time out inexcusably like hitting the other player for no good, reason. I.e. hitting your ally for no good reason just for the sake of surprise. <JXQ> So this time that's spent doing things like the 2player fights with each other, that makes you think the movie is done for ego instead of entertainment? <AKA> Its mentioned in the guidelines somewhere along the lines of don't surprise the player for no good reason like jumping into a pit. <AKA> *Sry I meant viewer <JXQ> I understand that you did not agree with the premise or goals of this run. There are many others who also did not agree <JXQ> I'm understanding that movies with these type of goals give you the impression of a pride movie or movie done for ego, am I understanding this correct? <AKA> I don't mind if you show a glitch or a trick, but not unneccessary interaction like trashing everything on the screen. <AKA> The later does not show tool-assistance. <JXQ> Yes, but am I understanding your thought process correctly? <AKA> Although unneccasary interaction is OK as long as the overall sacrifice is minimal. <JXQ> So movies with goals such as this RCR run which take pretty extreme deviances from speed to do things, give you the impression of a pride movie, or movie played for ego? Is this understanding correct? <AKA> In relation to Zurreco, I'm really not into directly arguing with him since he tends to use negative arguing strategies. <JXQ> The comment toward Zurreco is water under the bridge, I'm not at all worried about that <JXQ> I'm just wondering if my understanding is correct <AKA> What you said just above me is more or less correct. <JXQ> ok <JXQ> Well again, thank you for discussing this with me <JXQ> I do appreciate it <AKA> np [edit: fixed small part that was double-pasted]

Everyone, I know you're not going to read that huge block of text. I encourage you to do so anyway though, it's going to be a wild ride and you're going to smile a lot. Edit: imo

My initial question has not been answered...

... after reading that 3 times, I still have no idea what AKAs reason for calling this a pride movie is. He'd make a good Microsoft PR. So AKA, in one line, in what way was this TAS made for personal recognition? You know, a pride movie?

It's not a pride movie because it wasn't created for the sole purpose of furthering the author's reputations. There. Answered?

My initial question has not been answered...

Did you read that log JXQ posted? You never answered his question nor mine nor the one which Kyrsimys asked. EDIT: Okay, mine wasn't grammatically a question, but that's not the point.

For a fun, and extremely unproductive trip down memory lane, see the 9 page locked topic, appropriately titled What exactly is a "pride movie"? Hmm... this topic has reached 9 pages as well... interesting coincidence.

It's not a pride movie because it wasn't created for the sole purpose of furthering the author's reputations. There. Answered?

Finally a defence ______ A pride movie is a tool-assisted speedrun created for ego or for "showing off" It inexcusably lacks fundamental qualities of a publication-worthy production. If you watch the AIR or MKII movies they both don't play for speed, but they both show off glitches which an all out speed run wouldn't be able to show. Trashing everything in site or showing pointless interaction isn't because... The site is about showing tool-assistance and anyone playing in real time could do that.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

anyone playing in real time could do that. Its what there most likely to do on a first time playthrough, and its not exactly fun to watch someone playing a game on there first play through.

Then you obviously don't know the game very well.

That only sounds like a bad movie, not a pride movie. Am I understanding this correctly: You think that adelikat & JXQ made this movie explicitly for the reason that it could not be obsoleted, so that their names would stay on the page forever, and that's why you think this is a pride movie?

anyone playing in real time could do that. Its what there most likely to do on a first time playthrough, and its not exactly fun to watch someone playing a game on there first play through.

Then you obviously don't know the game very well.

That statement was meant to back up the previous paragraph.