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Posted: 4/10/2008 11:55 AM
Post subject: Anti-Virus suggestions
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I've had some trouble lately with my anti-virus software (AVG Free edition) and it suggested a re-install. But I'm considering switching, or possibly abandoning, anti-virus software. What do people think? I'm running Windows XP on a Thinkpad. I know not to open weird attachments on e-mails and I rarely browse internet sites that might mess with my system (plus I use Firefox, and most of those shady scripts affect IE). Can I get away with not using anti-virus software? What do other people use? Is there something that just sits in the background and isn't too resource-demanding?
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:58 AM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Have you tried Avast? Perhaps not the most intuitive program in the world, but it seems to work.
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:00 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Normally, it is possible to get away without using security software, if you make sure to regularly update the system with security fixes and all that, and using safe software. I haven't been using any kind of passive antivirus/firewall software at home for a long time, and nothing bad happened so far. I check my PC with active virus scanners every few months, and they find nothing.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:03 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I used Avast for awhile... it has its own nags, and I eventually got rid of it. The only "virus" it ever found was Sumotori. Got rid of Comodo firewall, too. I'm not thrilled to be relying on the Windows firewall, but just stopping inbound traffic and not downloading spyware isn't the kind of rocket science that a company like Comodo would have you think it is.
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:03 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I'm using SpyBot Search and destroy as my anti-spyware/anti-virus program, and I've had no problems at all in several months. You might want to check that out.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:26 PM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
I got anti virus software when I bought my compute but didn't update when it expired. I did have one problem where my mouse pointer kept freezing but was still able to use my keyboard, I don't know if it was computer or virus related. Although it wasn't difficult just to backup a few recent files and undo my computer.
Posted: 4/10/2008 12:37 PM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
I'm using BitDefender. Ever since I tried it once, I've been "hooked". Also, according to this page, it's the best.
Posted: 4/10/2008 1:15 PM
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IronSlayer
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 324
Dr. Web is excellent. So is Zone Alarm. There are a few others I have installed right now, but they're Russian, and I don't have the font for that, so it appears as a mass of question marks.
Posted: 4/10/2008 1:15 PM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
First off, to those using software firewalls...they suck. Get yourself a hardware one. Software firewalls have the same flaw every other windows software has...crashability. If a hardware firewall crashes, that's pretty much because your router died. ^^;; As for other protection, get yourself Spybot Search and Destroy and SpywareBlaster at a minimum, if you aren't gonna have antivirus. It's funny cause the other day I was actually getting a false positive on FFDShow's download. I was told to "get a real antivirus like Norton". Norton sucks. Bloated hogshit.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 4/10/2008 1:16 PM
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
Well, uh, I'm just using Linux. :p My brother's been happy with AVG though. The most useful step against virii is to use a non-admin-account for your daily tasks, although that's often inconvenient.
m00
Posted: 4/10/2008 1:45 PM
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Soulrivers
Former player
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
I use Lavasoft Ad-Adaware for spyware and Avira AntiVir for virus scanning/protection.
My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Posted: 4/10/2008 2:54 PM
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Neophos
Joined: 9/30/2007
Posts: 103
If you take the time to learn how to decipher it (or have a friendly forum to do it for you), HijackThis is pretty much the overall best tool you can have (outside of common sense and/or using Linux/Mac).
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:04 PM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
I have a hardware firewall, and do not bother with anti-virus at all on my laptop. My desktop still uses AVG, but mainly because it's already there and keeps up with updates, and because my desktop is DMZ. Unfortunately, the only software firewall that impressed me (Sygate) was discontinued. It was the only software firewall I ever used that would halt the worm running around on Bellsouth a few years ago. Damnedest thing; on a fresh installation of XP, if I plugged the network cable in before installing Sygate, within ten minutes my CPU usage would max out and never go down. Ever. Nothing in the task manager using resources, just a rapidly overheating processor running under full load for no apparent reason. Only way to stop it would be to format, reinstall the OS, and install Sygate before getting on the network. Never did find out what it was, other than it only occurred on Bellsouth, and if I wasn't firewalled. Didn't even have to open a browser window, just being connected spelled certain doom. Oh well, no such troubles now.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 4/10/2008 4:00 PM
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duksandfish
Joined: 3/14/2008
Posts: 152
Location: United Kingdom
McAfee Security center!
Polarium
Posted: 4/10/2008 4:35 PM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
Duksandfish wrote:
McAfee Security center!
I pray that is sarcasm. That thing once auto-deleted my data structures homework, insisting it was a virus. Didn't even ask for confirmation. That'll teach me to ever run a new laptop with full bloatware ever again.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 4/10/2008 4:53 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Sir VG wrote:
First off, to those using software firewalls...they suck. Get yourself a hardware one.
What good is a hardware firewall? They only stop inbound attacks, something a software firewall can do as well. The largest problem are not inbound attacks. I don't have hard numbers, but I bet less than 0.1% of hacker problems is caused by hackers attacking from the outside and finding a security hole. 99.9% of hacking problems happen from the computer itself, in the form of spyware, trojans and backdoors. A hardware firewall is not going to stop those and, what is absolutely worse, they won't even inform you that something is connecting to the internet that shouldn't. A software firewall will. And that's the point: If it so happens that your system gets infected by a spyware you will *immediately* get notified of the fact when that spyware tries to contact the outside. You can stop it, and you can immediately run something to remove it. A hardware firewall is completely useless for this purpose. Not having a software firewall in Windows is just madness. You are asking for trouble. Just running ad-aware or spybots S&D from time to time is not enough: By that time your computer may have already been compromised (and used eg. as a spam server).
Posted: 4/10/2008 6:04 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (312)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
Avast and Kaspersky are the shit. Their creators designed them targeting morons. You can easily notice that if you check the simplified options menu. They block everything... you can't even connect your cellphone to the pc, because they block silent installs. Also, I dunno how AVG is still alive... The best antivirus, in my arrogant opinion , is NOD32. It's lightweight, customizable and protects against spy/adware as well.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 4/10/2008 6:33 PM
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
Warp wrote:
The largest problem are not inbound attacks. I don't have hard numbers, but I bet less than 0.1% of hacker problems is caused by hackers attacking from the outside and finding a security hole.
the biggest problem on an unpatched windows are inbound attacks, it'll take only minutes until you're infected. Install windows, download patches, reinstall windows, install patches, done. Yeah, in theory outbound attacks should be mostly harmless, but leave it to microsoft to counter that theory with facts. Software firewalls are a good tool too - in theory - for the reasons you outlined above. In practice, they're often commercial crap designed after marketing decisions. There have been several situations where software firewalls actually caused trouble, for example leaving additional holes due to bugs or increasing reaction time to inbound traffic (making a DoS-attack more easy). At one point, a fault in the ZoneAlarm update mechanism caused a massive DDoS on the DNS servers. It's hard to trust on the security of zonealarm after that. Then again, a simple packet filter can't stop outgoing traffic. Nothing stops a program from opening a URL in your browser (which probably is allowed to connect) or just silently running ping.exe. If you want to sneak traffic out, you'll find a way. Code that's executed by buffer overflows in your browser (or the notorious flash plugin) won't be stopped by a firewall at all. The best way to get rid of spyware, trojans and backdoors is to stop executing shit you find on the internet with full privileges, actually don't run anything with full privileges unless needed. But Windows doesn't have a helpful mechanism for privilege separation (neither do most linux distros out of the box), and anyway the whole thing is not as convenient as installing a flashy firewall and a virus scanner and pretending you're secure.
m00
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:12 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Tub wrote:
Then again, a simple packet filter can't stop outgoing traffic. Nothing stops a program from opening a URL in your browser (which probably is allowed to connect) or just silently running ping.exe. If you want to sneak traffic out, you'll find a way. Code that's executed by buffer overflows in your browser (or the notorious flash plugin) won't be stopped by a firewall at all.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't use a firewall at all. At least it stops most attacks (inbound or outbound). But you are right in that one shouldn't assume that it's a 100% secure protection.
But Windows doesn't have a helpful mechanism for privilege separation (neither do most linux distros out of the box)
Are there any linux distros which don't support, out of the box, creating additional accounts with an easy-to-use GUI setup program? OTOH, linux people usually don't run random binaries from random websites. It just doesn't fit very well in the linux mentality.
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:37 PM
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
I gave some examples where having a software firewall is actually worse. Can't live with them, can't live without them. Oh, creating a second account is easy on windows, too. Running certain programs under the second account without logging in twice is another matter, it always requires additional clicks or bash commands. yeah, I have such additional users and a couple of iptables-rules to block all network traffic generated by some of them. I didn't need additional software for that, but it took a good deal of configuration, so I wouldn't call it "out of the box". The locked down users all run freeware windows games on wine, the users with net access are there to test svn versions of various software.
m00
Posted: 4/11/2008 4:31 AM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
Warp wrote:
Sir VG wrote:
First off, to those using software firewalls...they suck. Get yourself a hardware one.
What good is a hardware firewall? They only stop inbound attacks, something a software firewall can do as well. The largest problem are not inbound attacks. I don't have hard numbers, but I bet less than 0.1% of hacker problems is caused by hackers attacking from the outside and finding a security hole. 99.9% of hacking problems happen from the computer itself, in the form of spyware, trojans and backdoors. A hardware firewall is not going to stop those and, what is absolutely worse, they won't even inform you that something is connecting to the internet that shouldn't. A software firewall will. And that's the point: If it so happens that your system gets infected by a spyware you will *immediately* get notified of the fact when that spyware tries to contact the outside. You can stop it, and you can immediately run something to remove it. A hardware firewall is completely useless for this purpose. Not having a software firewall in Windows is just madness. You are asking for trouble. Just running ad-aware or spybots S&D from time to time is not enough: By that time your computer may have already been compromised (and used eg. as a spam server).
Common sense wins over spyware detection software. Oh, I win a million dollars if I click this attachment? SCORE! ...wait, WHAT?!?!?!?! (I mean, honestly...how much spyware is caused by complete stupidity? Don't download unexpected attachments and get a fricken adblocker software for your firefox browser.)
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 4/12/2008 8:54 PM
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
I use Avast. Any "nags" can be turned off. Low memory and cpu footprint too.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 4/12/2008 9:38 PM
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Eightbit_Allstar
Joined: 4/12/2008
Posts: 19
Location: Austria
Try Antivira. The free version is enough to keep your PC clean from viruses. It also gets updated everyday. http://free-av.de/en/download/index.html Or try Kaspery. My second favourite.
Contra Force deserves a TAS. D':
Posted: 4/13/2008 6:06 AM
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IronSlayer
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 324
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
Avast and Kaspersky are the shit. Their creators designed them targeting morons. You can easily notice that if you check the simplified options menu. They block everything... you can't even connect your cellphone to the pc, because they block silent installs. Also, I dunno how AVG is still alive... The best antivirus, in my arrogant opinion , is NOD32. It's lightweight, customizable and protects against spy/adware as well.
The Brazilian pirate knows his anti-virus programs very well. I'd like to second (third) that NOD32 and Kaspersky are both excellent programs, even though I don't have them installed anymore.
superjupi wrote:
I pray that is sarcasm. That thing once auto-deleted my data structures homework, insisting it was a virus. Didn't even ask for confirmation. That'll teach me to ever run a new laptop with full bloatware ever again.
Completely agree here yet again. McAfee is terrible. When I had it installed, a number of trojans and viruses still managed to escape undetected. Avoid like the plague.
Posted: 4/13/2008 6:49 AM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
I would agree that NOD32 is probably the best anti-virus program. By my experience AVG is terrible, and Avast is not very good either. I also personally recommend that people stay away with Kaspersky. Back in Kaspersky V5 they added 'protection' against alternate data stream viruses, however they do (did? I think they changed the way the program does it) by writing ADS onto every file that it scanned. Basically adding footnotes to each file which if different after being read back later, were flagged as being a malicious file (Their words here. Which kind of makes me suspect it's still done this way). However, there was a bug in the program which caused it in rare cases caused mass corruption of files. Without knowing this I downloaded Kaspersky to try it out (as people were recommending it), and later found out that it had corrupted a bunch of my files. Now, they did release a tool to try and recover the corrupted files, but in my mind that doesn't matter. What good is a virus scanner to protect your data if there is a chance that it might shred it? In my mind the best virus scanners are just that, virus scanners. Not a whole suite which tries to protect your computer from everything. (McAfee, Norton, Kaspersky Internet Security, ect.) These programs tend to try and take control of your computer, and can cause MAJOR problems during updates. I know all three are known for causes connectivity issues in Windows Vista after Windows Updates. In some cases they even can cause Vista to enter reduced functionality mode after updates. If you are very unlucky that means having to call Microsoft Activations to get Vista reactivated after you sort the issue out. The other thing to remember is no virus scanner is going to be perfect. They will all let viruses through, no exceptions. As shown with copy protection anything written by humans, can be broken by humans. If someone wants to write a virus to beat the current virus scanners there will. You can find many articles that support this evidence. So there is no sense in using one that will worsen your computer. If you suspect that a file you downloaded might have a virus in it then make sure you scan it. There are websites dedicated for scanning files with multiple virus scanning programs for you. The best security for viruses and trojans is a diligent mind. The best security for worms is a firewall. This will never change.
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