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Posted: 5/30/2008 12:21 AM
Post subject: Captain Skyhawk
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Bullfrog
Joined: 1/13/2008
Posts: 3
I have been a lurker on this site for many, many years. I finally decided to get off my butt (in a manner of speaking) and try to make a TAS of my own. This is my first attempt, and I am well aware that this video, in its current form, is no where near the standards required for submission. What I am curious about is whether or not people think that this game is suitable for TASing. I have completed the first "level" in this video to give a decent showing as to the make-up of this game. Captain Skyhawk WIP If people think this game would be a suitable TAS, I plan to continue my current run. Consider it a test. I will use it as a guideline for a real run at sometime in the future.
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:13 AM
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ShinyDoofy
Former player
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 716
Doesn't look bad to me for now. The only thing I saw is that in level 1 (the mountains?) you could have shot some frames earlier sometimes so that enemies will get blown away right when they enter the screen. Now this part looks more like a preview of a regular speedrun where somebody just has good reponse time and knows who's coming at you next. Keep it up, maybe this will get interesting.
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:17 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Kinda dull, IMO. It would probably be better with some aesthetic polish, such as purposely flying like a lunatic, constantly staying a hair's breadth from self-destructing, and suchlike. On the other hand, it's possible that in a game like this, such a use of style might not be evident or impressive to a casual viewer. It's hard to tell whether this would be publishable or not... I suspect that if the finished movie is over 20 minutes, people are going to get bored, otherwise it's promising.
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:37 PM
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Bullfrog
Joined: 1/13/2008
Posts: 3
I can beat this game in less than 20 minutes without tool assistance, so that shouldn't be a problem. There are four different variations of the overhead levels, so I hope that will help to alleviate some of the repetitiveness. There is the slow "destroy the enemy fortress" which is what is shown in my current WIP. Then there is a "drop supplies", "rescue the scientist", and a "destroy the enemy fortress" that happens at twice the speed of the regular one. The only problem I see are all of the "Shoot down enemy planes" stages, but I have some ideas to make them more interesting. Right now everything does look like someone with really fast reaction time, because that's basically all it is. My plan was to play through this way, then take detailed notes as to the positions and frames when enemies appear to make a more exciting run. Once I know where the plane needs to be at a certain time, I can play around a little more. Plus I'm still learning how to use the emulator, and trying not to delete my movie every time I start to record again :) I will go ahead and proceed to the halfway point in the game, as that will show an example of all the different play types, and see if you think that repetitiveness will still be a problem. I will also practice making things more interesting, as right now the movie is more like watching surgery than watching art. EDIT: The first half of the game is finished. The link in my first post will download the new WIP. Hopefully I'm getting better as I go, but what you see is all the variety that game has to offer. You basically repeat the 4 levels shown, but increase the difficulty for the last half of the game. When I redo this run for real, I will do my best to make things a little more interesting. I will try to keep the F-14 in constant motion and get as close as I can to the walls and other dangers without actually hitting them.
Posted: 6/4/2008 3:39 AM
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p0rtal_0f_rain
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
Hmm, would Bisqwit accept this if it contained a short entertainment tradeoff at the first enemy base, where the players shoots to the beats of the BGM?
Posted: 6/5/2008 2:04 AM
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Bullfrog
Joined: 1/13/2008
Posts: 3
I'll give it a shot. Each globe has between 10 and 12 hp (it's hard to tell, as your bullets magically miss sometimes, and other times the carry through the target). If I only loose a few frames to add entertainment, then I think it's worth it. If it costs more than a second, then it probably isn't. I'm thinking about starting my real run in a few days. I'll make one version with, and one version without and we can decide.
Posted: 1/15/2012 9:27 PM
Post subject: Captain SkyHawk
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TheKDX7
He/Him
Player (115)
Joined: 7/9/2011
Posts: 392
Location: Switzerland
Would he be possible of us helped? TimmyAkmed and me let us be blocked at the level with the blue bottom it is very complicated to make a 100% kill because of enemies' quantity, we wondered if it was necessary continued or abandoned when do you think? Here is some video that we made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiMas9Oactw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS-KCTZZY-A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0F1nemoqmA Last videos of our progress and we are blocked in the passage which is after the video be ended: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EcMzYJA-N8 Somebody for us helped please.
Posted: 1/17/2012 5:14 PM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
I really like this game, and have even considered doing a TAS myself. That said I'm not sure if the finished run will be interesting enough to be published. A fair amount of the game is a top-down shooter with a fixed pace. I'm also a little unsure about if a regular run would be better, or a 100% kill run. I'm also a little unsure if you could really call it a "100% kill" because of the way the path splits in places. I may be interested in checking it out, and possibly trying to help. Can you post the input file?
Posted: 1/17/2012 6:03 PM
(Edited: 1/20/2012 10:54 AM)
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
Thanks for your help link_7777 . We have the same questions about the entertainement of this run and we know that's not a real 100% kill because it's impossible to do a 100% kill right now but some indications of "skilled players" are welcome :)
Posted: 1/20/2012 5:58 AM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
I took some time and messed with your WIP a bit. It looks ok so far, may need some clean up. I had planned on running the level you were on and posting a WIP, but I haven't gotten that far. I'm part of the way through, but I have a few thoughts. It seemed like I was able to get to a lot of the enemies, at least early in the level. If needed you can slow down and speed up on that fast level with select+down and select+up. I'm also a little unsure about how to manage special weapons throughout the run. Lastly for now I'm beginning to wonder if the run would be better off if the goal was 'high score'. Especially on the fast level the way the enemy ship re-spawns doesn't make a lot of sense with a 'kill all' goal, but you keep getting points for shooting it down.
Posted: 1/20/2012 10:53 AM
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
Thanks for the information with the speed in this level. This will avoid the suicide at the start of the level and if the speed is slow enough maybe it will possible to kill "all" the ennemies without use the special weapons . I don't understand how a High score goal will be more entertaining to watch. Could you explain better ? I edit the post on top, the link not work anymore.
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:32 AM
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TheKDX7
He/Him
Player (115)
Joined: 7/9/2011
Posts: 392
Location: Switzerland
It is possible to slow down the speed of the levels!! o_0 As in the TAS of Gradius 3 I think that it's better kill all the enemies that to obtain the best score.
Posted: 1/20/2012 6:33 PM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
Level 1 for example is already slow, can't slow down further or speed up. Level 3 is fast, but you can slow down and speed back up. In level 3 there is a red/orange enemy plane that tries to shoot you down the whole way through the level. If you shoot it down it re-spawns a short time later. To fulfill the goal of "kill all" would you only need to shoot it down once in the level? You get points every time you shoot it, so that's why I wonder if it would be better to go for "high score". That way you keep shooting it down to rack up the score.
Posted: 1/21/2012 1:08 PM
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
So you mean, Only this level in High score goal ? Or all the game ?
Posted: 1/21/2012 5:08 PM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
Well, I was thinking "high score" for the whole game. I think for most levels though it will essentially be the same thing. Killing all enemies will pretty much give you the highest score. I just suggested the change in goal because it should be about the same for most levels and a little better for the fast ones. Just my opinion.
Posted: 1/21/2012 5:57 PM
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
Maybe you're right, this will avoid the "False" 100% kill. But not very entertaining for all.
Posted: 1/24/2012 5:01 PM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
I was playing around for a bit this morning, and discovered a bug. If you barrel roll (by holding select) in the right place you can get outside the boundary. This seemed to work best on diagonal parts of the wall. I'm not really sure if this is particularly useful, or if there is anything to gain by doing it. I just wanted to post what I found in case anyone can find a use for it.
Posted: 1/27/2012 2:06 PM
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
Thanks for this trick, maybe it will help to get the high score by changing side when there are two passages.I will try it.
Posted: 1/30/2012 5:47 AM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
I'm posting a WIP I started, just the first overhead level so far. I got the same score you did, but managed to save 66 frames. I haven't analyzed it to see where the savings came from yet. http://www.grimsrud.net/TAS/Captain_Skyhawk_WIP.fm2
Posted: 1/31/2012 8:27 PM
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
I don't know if the problem is mine but the file seems to me desynchronised? The entire second level and the next part did not make any sense, maybe it comes from me but from what I saw, the improvement comes from the first boss sure. Our "checksum" is identical, i'm searching the problem.
Posted: 1/31/2012 8:51 PM
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TheKDX7
He/Him
Player (115)
Joined: 7/9/2011
Posts: 392
Location: Switzerland
He is desynchronized for me too :/
Posted: 1/31/2012 8:52 PM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
I would expect the rest of it to desync. I just wanted to post the improvement up to the first boss, the rest of the input is just junk, mostly stuff left over from experimenting. edit: Some additional info, I found the boss HP to be at addresses (697,698,699,69A,69B). These numbers are initialized to 0, and increment to 8 which results in the death of that target.
Posted: 2/1/2012 7:18 PM
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TimmyAkmed
Player (95)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 17
Location: France
I will try to sync your movie file but we must redo the second level of each level ( You still with me ?) because there is a luck factor with the hitbox of the planes...
Posted: 2/2/2012 3:33 PM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
Yeah, I started looking at the next part, but haven't gotten too far yet. I'll update my WIP once I have time to get through the next level. I don't think the hitbox of the enemy planes has a luck factor, I think it's just a little difficult to control the aim, especially in real time. It seems to be pretty straight forward so far with TAS Edit.
Posted: 2/4/2012 5:14 AM
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link_7777
Experienced player (853)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
I have completed the next section and updated my WIP at http://www.grimsrud.net/TAS/Captain_Skyhawk_WIP.fm2 Note that there is still a bunch of junk input at the end. I did manage to save 145 frames from your WIP. I think most of the savings came from getting to enemies from the bottom faster. If you pull up, then dive there are a few frames when you get to the bottom where you can actually shoot lower. For example you'll see when I get 2 enemies that spawn from below I bounce up in between them, this is so I can get to the 2nd one earlier. I had a few more points to start with, but when I saved a few frames I ended up with the same score you had. At this point I'm almost thinking the best goal would be a primary goal of time, and a secondary goal of score. I feel like it's a bit of a waste to lose frames just for the score, but you'd still want to attack the enemy fighter mercilessly to run up the score. Just a thought.
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