Okay, so I bought an Xbox 360 to accompany my Wii earlier this summer because I felt that 90% of everything good that's ever going to be released for the Wii has already been released, and I wanted to have something to play during the summer. I was also excited about getting to play some games like GTA 4 and Mass Effect, of which I have heard nothing but good things. So I finished GTA 4 first and I started on Mass Effect yesterday, and finished it today. I was expecting the plot to be something earth-shattering and completely mind-blowingly awesome, so it was only natural that I was a bit let down. But I would never have imagined Mass Effect to be such a colossal disappointment.
For starters, the critically acclaimed plot turned out to be a huge flop. I appreciate sci-fi clichés as much as the next geek and have nothing against spaceship battles of epic proportions, but they alone are not enough, you need a decent plot. In Mass Effect, basically when you leave tutorial-land you are given three places you need to visit to search for clues as to where the baddie is headed. After you've searched these three places, all that is left is the final lair. That's it. You know exactly who the bad guy is from the start and there are no twists or turns in the plot whatsoever. Definitely not something I'd expect from a praised sci-fi RPG. They could already do it so well in the 90s with the Final Fantasy games, for example. How did they fuck this up so bad? And why are critics praising this A-to-Z in one night crap, are they really so used to games that don't even have a plot that they go crazy when someone's at least trying to come up with reasons for killing hundreds of aliens?
Secondly, the script is completely and utterly boring. I could not find one joke in the entire game, and most of the dialogue consists of the main characters "realizing" new things that have been obvious to the gamer right from the start of the game. In addition to the dialogue being bland, the possibilities for the player to affect it are minuscule. Often the only options are in the realm of "Okay", "Yes" and "Why not". Many times I didn't even understand the difference between some of the options. When there is an actual choice involved, the options are always to suck up, be indifferent or say something like "Shut up", i.e. there is never a gray area, the options could just as well always be "be good", "be neutral" or "be evil". When I started the game, I was expecting verbal acrobatics à la Fallout 2 so this was a great disappointment.
Thanks to the stupid and meaningless dialogue all the characters remain paper-thin. There is almost no interaction between the main character and his team, and you cannot talk to your team members whenever you wish. When you're not in your base all they ever have to say is "I'm right behind you" or "You lead and I'll follow". The interaction between the protagonist and his team members is not dynamic at all, and everything important happens in ready-made cutscenes and the whole game seems to be moving on rails. A good example of this was that I hadn't said two words to person A and had been nothing but cold towards her, whereas I had been talking a lot with person B and been trying to create warm feelings between her and I, but when the game progressed to a certain point I still ended up in bed with person A, because all I had to do was select "Bunk with me tonight" once in a casual conversation, nothing I had done earlier mattered one bit.
This is definitely not the kind of game I thought I was going to get to play. I mean, so little ever happens in Mass Effect that it could be fit into just one sidequest in a game like Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate 2 or Fallout 2. How is it possible that every review I've read about this game praises the incredible depth that it has? I would agree that the universe of Mass Effect does have quite a lot of depth, and there is a lot to read about the politics and the history of the Galactic Alliance, for example, but it cannot compensate for the complete lack of a good storyline or dialogue.
All that said, I still enjoyed playing the game, just nowhere near as much as I thought I would. I liked the fighting and the biotic powers and all that, and of course just looking at dem grafix gives me a boner. But all that gets shadowed by how great it could've been had they concentrated on a creating a multi-dimensional plot instead of realistic facial expressions. The fact that the characters can't even jump or climb over obstacles (or ladders or anything) also shows that the graphics have been way too high on the list of priorities for the makers of this game. Such a shame. So, what are your thoughts on Mass Effect? Is there someone here who thought the plot was actually good?
vive la CRPG
Honestly the last time I played a RPG with a good plot is... uh... that's a harder question to answer than I thought. Final Fantasy X? That was released in 2002 or something... hmm.
I would say that the expectations of the gamer are changing, so what was previously a laughable attempt at character depth really is becoming acceptable. Of course there will always be 'hardcore' rpgamers that want more than a slice of intrigue between two pieces of bland bread, but who the fuck cares about such a small market? I haven't played Mass Effect yet, but perhaps I can persuade my 360-owning friend to go through a bit of it while I watch. Then I might respond to the actual question. :)
While the characters were often bland or otherwise catchphrase-heavy (hello Tidus and Wakka), the plot is actually quite well thought out, though it is a little crazy at the end.
I agree with Kyrsimys, in almost everything.
I wasn't actually that dissapointed on anything (except the lenght of the game (It took me 25 hours to finish majority of the side quests and stuff)), because I didn't really expect anything other than clichés.
Well, it was better than Jade Empire, but nothing spectacular.
I don't want to spoil anything. But I am pretty sure there is a plot twist.
As a matter of fact, I was happy there wasn't a plot twist. The whole time I was getting ready for "The bad guy is actually good, and the alliance is actually bad" turnaround coming. I was happy to see the bad guy was actually bad.
Knowing who the bad guy is from the beginning isn't new or anything. I mean, look at FF7, no twists there either. The story is all about figuring out why he is doing it, and what his final plan is.
I liked this game fine. I was very similar to KOTOR, which I loved. Although I guess that game had 5 places to visit instead of 4 like this game. It was pretty much the same kind of deal.
I like the gameplay very much, but when it comes to plot, take me off the list of people who care.
So far, I have played through the game 5 times, 3 of which were speedruns.
The game was well polished in the graphics department, but the slow-loading textures are painful to watch. Add in glitches (ones that can ruin your game), repetitive and nonsensical sidequests, and bland planet surfaces, and you have a game that has been clearly rushed.
I mean, look at FF7, no twists there either. The story is all about figuring out why he is doing it, and what his final plan is.
Well not really, you don't know anything about Sephiroth in the beginning of the game, the protagonists are just fighting against Shinra. Even later on as Sephiroth comes into play, he's not a clear-cut bad guy right away. The difference to Mass Effect is that FF7's plot actually has developments, whereas the plot of Mass Effect could be summarized by just a few words. The characters don't develop at all during the story and it feels like everything is over in a matter of hours or days when in FF7 it feels like the characters make a long journey and actually learn stuff that changes them. There's really no way these two games can be compared in terms of storylines. And anyways, my point wasn't that any game that reveals the bad guy right from the start is bad, I was just using it as an example of how simple the plot of Mass Effect is.
Joined: 11/11/2006
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I just finished Mass Effect (for PC, but no matter). This almost feels like the topic is purely flamebait but hey, I'll bite. Oh, and unlike Kyrsimys, I will be spoilerific. For this post I've decided to change my answers/responces to dark blue to make it easier to read. I don't like colours usually, but it seems to help for this post.Kyrsimys wrote:
In Mass Effect, basically when you leave tutorial-land you are given three places you need to visit to search for clues as to where the baddie is headed. After you've searched these three places, all that is left is the final lair. That's it. You know exactly who the bad guy is from the start and there are no twists or turns in the plot whatsoever.
Uhh... what? First of all, It turns out that Saren isn't actually bad at all, and that he was being twisted and controlled by Sovereign all along. There are all sorts of tiny turns in the secondary assignments also. Secondly, you are given many, MANY places to explore at your leisure. It sounds to me like you went straight into the primary mission chain and didn't bother to do anything else. If thats the case, you've missed 80% of the game.Kyrsimys wrote:
Secondly, the script is completely and utterly boring. I could not find one joke in the entire game, and most of the dialogue consists of the main characters "realizing" new things that have been obvious to the gamer right from the start of the game.
Joker's pretty funny. I would have thought the name would tip you off. Oh well. I suppose it is alot more serious than other games I've seen, but it didn't particularly bother me.Kyrsimys wrote:
In addition to the dialogue being bland, the possibilities for the player to affect it are minuscule. Often the only options are in the realm of "Okay", "Yes" and "Why not". Many times I didn't even understand the difference between some of the options. When there is an actual choice involved, the options are always to suck up, be indifferent or say something like "Shut up", i.e. there is never a gray area, the options could just as well always be "be good", "be neutral" or "be evil". When I started the game, I was expecting verbal acrobatics à la Fallout 2 so this was a great disappointment.
Most of the dialogue I've seen was either "Yes, I'm being very positive about this", "Meh, I'm okay about this" and "Whatever, piss off before I blow your head off." It's not good, neutral or evil because in the grand ol' scheme of things you're still a good person and do good things. It's how you achieve that which is key. That's the point of Paragon/Renegade, and how one doesn't detract from the other.Kyrsimys wrote:
Thanks to the stupid and meaningless dialogue all the characters remain paper-thin. There is almost no interaction between the main character and his team, and you cannot talk to your team members whenever you wish. When you're not in your base all they ever have to say is "I'm right behind you" or "You lead and I'll follow".
Sounds like you didn't talk to them much between each major mission. They do develop and things happen based on your responses. I am slightly disappointed you cannot talk to them properly during missions, but idle chatter in the middle of a battlefield never did seem right.Kyrsimys wrote:
The interaction between the protagonist and his team members is not dynamic at all, and everything important happens in ready-made cutscenes and the whole game seems to be moving on rails. A good example of this was that I hadn't said two words to person A and had been nothing but cold towards her, whereas I had been talking a lot with person B and been trying to create warm feelings between her and I, but when the game progressed to a certain point I still ended up in bed with person A, because all I had to do was select "Bunk with me tonight" once in a casual conversation, nothing I had done earlier mattered one bit.
I disagree with the ready-made cutscenes, but not the "moving on rails". Games like this really need more diverse endings. As for the romancing, Liari doesn't understand human emotion, so she gets confused. I assuming that was person A. If you are nothing but mean to one and kind to the other, there will be no confrontation from both of them. As for the nothing earlier mattering, you must have done something to switch.Kyrsimys wrote:
This is definitely not the kind of game I thought I was going to get to play. I mean, so little ever happens in Mass Effect that it could be fit into just one sidequest in a game like Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate 2 or Fallout 2. How is it possible that every review I've read about this game praises the incredible depth that it has?
Perhaps they played every aspect of the game (including it's secondary assignments)?Kyrsimys wrote:
I would agree that the universe of Mass Effect does have quite a lot of depth, and there is a lot to read about the politics and the history of the Galactic Alliance, for example, but it cannot compensate for the complete lack of a good storyline or dialogue.
Your own opinion. Personally I disagree.Kyrsimys wrote:
All that said, I still enjoyed playing the game, just nowhere near as much as I thought I would. I liked the fighting and the biotic powers and all that, and of course just looking at dem grafix gives me a boner. But all that gets shadowed by how great it could've been had they concentrated on a creating a multi-dimensional plot instead of realistic facial expressions. The fact that the characters can't even jump or climb over obstacles (or ladders or anything) also shows that the graphics have been way too high on the list of priorities for the makers of this game. Such a shame. So, what are your thoughts on Mass Effect? Is there someone here who thought the plot was actually good?
You can climb over some stuff. mostly ledges and stuff. Why would you want to jump? Are you obsessed with bunny hopping or something? Do you feel people with that much equipment SHOULD be able to jump?
You ask for my thoughts. The first thing that I hate about this game (and many others) is it leaves it's ending to a sequel. I hate that. I don't want games that leave on a cliffhanger or in the middle of a war. Thats basically a massive cockslap in my face after I've spent time with the goal to win. Telling me I've got to wait another year or two for the real ending after I've poured hours into a game is a huge destructive blow to the game in my eyes. At least, if it's going to be part of a storyline of games, make it clear at the start so I know that it probably isn't going to end with where I leave it.
Second, AI. The enemies' isn't too bad, they have some basic tactics. But it seems whenever I try and give my team tactics, they do one of three things:
1. Stand there, completely ignore me and shoot.
2. Stand there, completely ignore me and refuse to shoot.
3. Move to where I want them to go, but refuse to take cover and get shot.
And when I don't give them commands... (watch for the subtle differences here):
1. Run infront of me, completely ignore I'm still firing and shoot.
2. Run infront of me, completely ignore I'm still firing and refuse to shoot.
3. Stay behind me, use me as cover and I get shot.
Correct me if this sounds crazy but this isn't exactly what I would call appealing AI. They also shout no tactical status such as "taking cover" or "falling back", only "shields down!" or "arggggh" as they die (in a, regrettably, non-pirate context). Feedback between teammates seems like it should be a vital part of the game, yet it's almost completely undeveloped.
Ending. I expected things would turn out all hunky dory, but I like games with a big ending that wraps things up. you know, like 10 minutes at least. Maybe a tiny bit of control also allowing you to decide something (think Fable-style, though that suffered from a different kind of bad ending). Maybe choose whether the final, mind-twisted boss should live or die. Cliché but fun, and should have an effect on the final ending.
Storyline aside, I had annoying bugs. Depth of Field is bugged with SM3.0 graphics cards, so I had to turn that off. Then I had an annoying bug where my big jeep thing got stuck on a beam and wouldn't move (jump-jets didn't help). Then there was a bug where my weapons would be stuck overheated. Permenantly. Not tech being used against me, they'd just get stuck. Reloading a save would fix the problem. I'm unsure if it was designed to be like that during the final boss fight, but I ended up attacking Saren with a pistol.
I'm thinking it's safe to say the game was pretty cool though. Certainly a change from most of the crap other developers are making (cough, halo 2/3, cough).
DISCOVERY: The monkey doesn't have the module.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Nice to see someone who has actually played the game reply! I will reply to some of your observations.
1: Even if Saren's not the baddest bad guy and it's Sovereign actually pulling the strings, he's still the one you end up fighting, so I don't really care whether he's being controlled or not. In many games the bad guy is being controlled by some evil entity, but you get to fight that entity in the end (like, say, Zeromus in FF4), which makes it seem like a lot more personal and real. Here, Sovereign was just a secondary side character. I guess they couldn't think of a way he could be fought or killed so they had to just settle for Saren. This might also be related to the sequel thing you mention.
2: I did do all sidequests I could find. I actually found them to be quite repetitive, but since I liked the action it didn't really bother me. For me, they didn't really add many memorable moments to the game.
3: As for jumping and climbing over obstacles, I was simply using this as an example of what they have had to sacrifice just for the graphics, which is the least important aspect of any game for me. But yeah, I do feel that the characters should be able to jump. It's such a basic human action and it's been a part of gaming since SMB, why should it be removed? Also, by the end of the game, I was getting pretty sick and tired of there not being a run button and sprinting only being possible in combat.
4: About the Paragon/Renegade thing. I understand what you're saying, but does it really matter how you act? In games like BG2 and PS:T (especially in PS:T), your choices affect your future choices or your stats or the items you can use. In Mass Effect, I felt like it didn't matter what I did, everything was still the same, except for maybe Wrex's fate (can you prevent him from being killed?). The choice between the two humans was meh, because I hadn't been using either one and as I said before, the characters seemed paper-thing to me so I couldn't care less about what happened to them. Also see point 5.
5: I agree about the side characters being essentially useless in combat. The only thing I found useful was giving them high decrypting/electronics and hacking so I could concentrate on other skills with the main character.
6: I agree about the ending as well. The "this was only a small victory in the grand scheme of things" works in sci-fi series because they actually get to the grand scheme of things fairly quickly. Here, the ending was just a big disappointment. The fight in space was ok, but nothing intense. The setup in the end was a little too American for my taste as well in that they were threatened by an unknown number of godlike mechanical creatures that have existed for millions of years and seem to know everything about everything (except of course the resilience of human nature!!!) and they seem to just think "yeah, let them come, we can deal with anything that comes our way" without even a hint of despair or hopelessness.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Yeah you can keep Wrex from being killed.
I really liked this game, I beat it 4 times. But it kinda has the same fate as Fable. Not being able to live up to the hype. There are only 3 major "events" in the game where you actually get to choose the outcome, and the choices couldn't be more clear cut. Save teammate A or B, save the Council or Kill Soverign and kill Wrex or not. Everything else is just an attitude thing. Which is kinda nice because it lets you act anyway you want without screwing the story up.
In games like KOTOR where you get rewarded for being super good or super bad, you are just forced to always choose the bottom option or top option in dialogue in order to achieve those goals. In this game you can just say what you feel the character would say, and totally go with the flow.
