Topic by Bisqwit

Guybrush wrote:
Are any of those hacks good enough to do a TAS which is acceptable to this site?
Perhaps, but do we want 5 rockman hack movies? (I don't!)

Which do you think is best?

Posted: 12/29/2005 11:00 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Guybrush wrote:

Which do you think is best?

I'd prefer to extinquish this discussion (about comparison of hacks). Hack games are getting way too much attention on this site.

Posted: 12/29/2005 4:49 PM

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Because clearly, publishing movies for two hacks -- one of which you've actually approved of for months -- and having a third sit with 100% approval in the Workbench forum is "too much attention"... Do we want five movies of Rockman/Megaman hacks? If the hacks and movies are done well enough, I do. Really good hacks of these games are hard to come by, though. When the hacking community was really active, it almost seemed like you weren't "part of the group" unless you'd done one SMB1 hack and one Megaman 1/2 hack. But the good ones to exist, they just have to be found. Oh, and Rockman Exile is technically a hack of Megaman 2, not Rockman 2. Rockman 2 doesn't have a difficulty select. :P More on topic: That shutter glitch is really interesting. It's always fun to find out how level data is stored compared to how it's displayed. What I really wonder, though, it why it works the way it does...

Posted: 12/29/2005 11:27 PM

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Tailz

Former player

Joined: 7/2/2005
Posts: 309
Location: Baltimore, MD

Nice technique, it should really save time.

Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets." Wally: "Really?" Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying." Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!" Currently working on: Nothing at the moment.

Posted: 12/30/2005 4:04 AM

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Vatchern

Player (84)

Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Personally,(again) i am against all Hacks. That shutter tech should be nice though.

http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html

Posted: 12/30/2005 11:28 PM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

Bisqwit wrote:

Maybe that particular room has been designed with having two exits -- down and right.

Sounds like something that could be checked in a reasonable amount of time by someone with the requisite knowledge. If your conjecture turns out to be true, it is likely there are other rooms with similar exploits, and that a program could be written to examine all of the map data and identify them.

Posted: 12/31/2005 12:43 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

I agree with your big words!

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/31/2005 12:44 AM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

It doesn't seem like a coincidence that there is a gate noise and also that you end up in the room just before the boss room. Maybe levels are designed so that if you take an exit that isn't defined, it gates you to the second to last room? That would depend on how the other levels are set up, however. Has that technique been tried on any other room in Wily 2? If other rooms also take you to just before the boss, then that may be evidence of the same idea.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 12/31/2005 12:49 AM

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finalfighter

Active player (274)

Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo

http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/shuttertech2.mpg shutter tech in other place The delay is important?

Posted: 12/31/2005 12:57 AM

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Shinryuu

Experienced player (538)

Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707

OH MY HOLYYY.. This was NICE !

Posted: 12/31/2005 12:58 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

There's another possible explanation. Disclaimer first: I only have knowledge of Rockman 1. But Rockman 2 is largely based on Rockman 1 code. In Rockman 1, there's a variable, CurrentStripeEndType at RAM address $26 responsible for marking the type of the end of the current stripe. 0=right, 1=up, 2=left, 3=down. It may also be 4, but the circumstances are unknown. But the point is, the variable is reused. Besides being loaded from the map data, it's sometimes also set during enemy AI handling. I don't understand fully yet how it works, but it could be what's responsible for this "shutter tech". Somehow, an interference with enemy actions and Rockman's actions cause the game to get wrong reading for the CurrentStripeEndType and as such, the game will do a right-scrolling when it's supposed to only do down-scrolling. If my theory is on the right tracks, this glitch may exist in Rockman 1 as well.

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:02 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

So it's not a flaw in the map, but a flaw in the code that changes that variable for some reason?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:05 AM
(Edited: 12/31/2005 1:34 AM)

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

So it's not a flaw in the map, but a flaw in the code that changes that variable for some reason?

Perhaps. Maybe. Note that in both videos, an enemy (or enemy shot) was just exiting the screen at the moment Rockman was able to enter. Lag was also present...

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:12 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Cool, so you're saying the window of opportunity could be in the "remove this enemy for going offscreen" routine?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:37 AM

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finalfighter

Active player (274)

Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo

http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/shuttertech3.mpg I still think that DeLay relates?

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:37 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

finalfighter wrote:

I still think that DeLay relates?

PS: It's delay.

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:40 AM

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Brushy

Former player

Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587

Bisqwit: If you find usage to this "shutter technique" in Rockman 1, are you going to improve your run?

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:42 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

There are already enough improvements to warrant a new run, even if this technique doesn't work.

Posted: 12/31/2005 1:50 AM

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Shinryuu

Experienced player (538)

Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/568/ eh there is my version of airmanstages shuttertechs.. lag seems to be answer.. but im not sure is my movie so important becouse finalfighter did his movie earlier.. :)

Posted: 12/31/2005 4:43 AM

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finalfighter

Active player (274)

Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo

http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/shuttertech4.mpg Want to do without the stop,I have not succeeded yet.

Posted: 12/31/2005 8:51 AM

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Brushy

Former player

Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587

finalfighter wrote:

http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/shuttertech4.mpg Want to do without the stop,I have not succeeded yet.

Woodman stage was different. What was that black thing?

Posted: 12/31/2005 9:04 AM

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CoolBumpty

Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158

It's probably some sort of hack or something that makes it so that the roof is visible for Woodman's level. Quite useful to have, I'd say. I'm kind of wondering what causes the gates to open in the Wily 2 level and not in the others. Hmmm.