I would have thought going for HP Water/Grass would be a better choice, given the 4x effectiveness on 2 of Roark's mons and still doing the same damage to Cranidos, and gives him extra coverage. HP Grass would net you a guaranteed OHKO on that Piplup too.
If he had chosen Turtwig, the Rival would have gotten Chimchar instead of Piplup; the rival always gets the advantageous type.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
You can get Rock Smash for free in the cave before Roark. Is getting Hidden Power necessary? Sure, you might not OHKO all of Roark's Pokémon, but if you avoid getting Hidden Power, you skip 2 trainers. I think GoddessMaria might be trying this.
Chimchar's ability is Blaze. That could be made use of throughout the game.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
N. Harmonik wrote:
Toothache wrote:
I would have thought going for HP Water/Grass would be a better choice, given the 4x effectiveness on 2 of Roark's mons and still doing the same damage to Cranidos, and gives him extra coverage. HP Grass would net you a guaranteed OHKO on that Piplup too.
If he had chosen Turtwig, the Rival would have gotten Chimchar instead of Piplup; the rival always gets the advantageous type.
He mentioned Hidden Power (Grass), not to pick the Grass starter.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
HP Fighting 70 seems interesting.
Fighting is an amazing offensive type, I don't remember any other level up moves Monferno/Infernape can learn besides Mach Punch. There is Focus Blast as a TM but it has low PP. It can hit Purugly at Valley Windworks very hard.
If there is going to be a no major skips run, which ones should we disallow?
My opinion on these glitches.
Heavy:
The Jubilife City Void (skips 6 gyms and Elite Four, obviously different route and team planning)
Medium:
Tweaking in certain routes to skip trainers
Borderline Medium:
Skipping the Elite 4 with the JP V1.0 only Surf Glitch (pretty dull compared to a no tweaking glitch run as the difference would notably be after the final Rival Battle).
If there is a run that will actually encounter all 8 gyms and the 5 members of the Elite 4, does that mean we can use the tweaking glitch inbetween routes to skip fights? We need a mini poll and (dis)agree on this.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
I would say you should just simply call it "no out of bounds", so no tweaking, JP Surf Glitch or other ways that allow you to go through areas you're clearly not intended to.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Even with Blaze and STAB, Ember would not be as powerful as Rock Smash on Roark's Pokémon (Geodude, Onix, and Cranidos; all rock types).
Edit: Oh, unless their super-low SpD stats affect things that much. Onix has 160 base D but only 45 base SpD. Geodude's in the same situation. Cranidos is a weakling defense-wise either way, though.
I don't know for a fact exactly how IVs and Natures are decided for NPCs' Pokemon.
However, even with criticals, Blaze, and max damage variation on your side, Ember can't KO a Geodude (Roark's weakest Pokemon) with 0 IVs in Sp.Def and HP and a detrimental nature until 13. Cranidos won't be OHKO'd until 18 or so.
Rock Smash at 13+ (Or Mach Punch from evolving into Monferno) will be required to take them out in a single hit each without using Hidden Power. If Chimchar's going to be decidedly lower level at this point, then it's a good time to weigh the detour of the TM versus the time to simply attack Cranidos twice.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats.
Yay, favoritism.
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
I'm almost certain it'd be faster to apply a HM and attack 3 extra times than fight 2 extra trainers. However, if that extra 30 attack power from Hidden Power is useful beyond Roark, it could be worth getting.
I haven't worked on this for a while. But I'll give an update anyway.
I have essentially completed the first pass; that is, getting the bike in Eterna City. Note that as soon as you get the bike, the game forces you to go south from Eterna City by setting the warp point in Eterna City, and blocking off the west route.
There isn't much else to talk about in the first pass, just using Chimchar/Monferno. Note that Monferno is powerful enough that a critical Mach Punch can knock out Mars's Purugly. The double battles are more interesting, with Monferno knocking out a Pachirisu with critical Hidden Power while Chansey knocks out Wurmple, and a similar thing for the dual Abra. However, the double battle with Team Galactic in Eterna City was bad, and it was better fighting them each alone.
I'd like to plan a second pass, but I will need to figure out some more RNG mechanics. The second pass will use both Chimchar and Abra/Kadabra, where Abra will be caught just after battling the rival outside Jubilife City, and it will be given Hidden Power Steel. Steel is one type which is super effective against Roark's Pokemon, and neutral to just about anything else. Note that an attack which is super effective takes maybe a second longer than one which is neutral, and critical hit is shorter than super effective as well.
Hi! Any news on a glitch run using the void to get to the Hall of Fame? A post about it mentioned it being within 15 minutes into the void, and there's even a video on it, but will it be used in the run?
Also, assuming it does get used and is labelled as a "glitched" run, will the glitchless run use the same version?
Different version would be best if possible, but tricky.
The way the GB games are set up right now feels, actually, very concise. Red gets to be the any% game, Blue gets to be the collectathon, and Yellow gets to be the glitch run.
The big trick here, though, is that the glitch to use is known enough to make the glitch run for Diamond/Pearl to come first. So, even though so little of the game is played that version choice is nearly inconsequential, there's no way to predict just yet which version will turn out to be better for the eventual full-clear run. It may even switch, as Ruby/Sapphire did a few times.
So they might be different versions, they might be the same... we really can't conjecture, nor can we even try to engineer a difference without knowing more about accomplishing a full-clear of this game pairing.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats.
Yay, favoritism.
Can't watch it, is my internet crappy or i have to do something special? I get the new window and a black screen after clicking the "Play" symbol
EDIT: Watching it...
REDIT: Believe it or not, i was planning to make a Piplup solo run with almost exactly these strats, i see some improvements on this run tho, i read somewhere that you lose 2 frames turning, and it turns when it's not needed sometimes, that's one, then he make the Bidoof and Starly KO in the double battles in the Galactic HQ, also, using Repels in a TAS?? Is RNG Manipulation slower? Some RNG's in battles can be improved i think (for example he's waiting ages for the critical GK on Gyarados), also he didn't used the Quick Claw sometimes, but i guess that's predicted, very good first run tho, i was very surprised.
In conclusion the possible strats are:
Chimchar (I think he has too low PP's to be useful)
Piplup (The fastest i think)
Abra (Idk)
Machop (Idk)
PALKIA IN THE E4 (considering you can get Choice Specs in Celestic Town this could get in handy)
Any other ideas?
I've been starting a test run on this game. I'll use glitches.
My plan is to use Chimchar, without Hidden Power. I'm probably aiming for low IVs in defense and HP for blaze manipulation.
I'm choosing the girl. It's faster to choose the girl because the boy (Lucas) talks less than the girl (Dawn) does, so it's faster to choose the girl yourself.
Main problem will be avoiding encounters (mostly in places where there aren't many NPCs) and luck manipulating some battles.
Also there are a lot of combinations in the time/date that would let me get the same Chimchar, and same overworld RNG manipulation, but different battle RNG, so choosing the right time will not be easy. I'll probably need to create a bot that helps me with that.
One thing I don't know is how encounters are determinated (encounter rate), so at the moment I'll just do some trial and error with that I guess.
I have a couple movies I did a long time ago using Chimchar. I'll try to dig them up if I can.
mkdasher, do you already know how to get Pokemon stats in this game? I've made Lua scripts in the past, but I think they are of no use to you.
Edit:Here are the files. The first one with Chimchar does not use Hidden Power (and does not get optimal IVs) and goes up to just past the 8th gym (also, it is not optimized, especially near the end). It requires DeSmuME 0.9.6. The second one with Chimchar uses Hidden Power Fighting 70 and gets optimal IVs, and goes up to just past the 2nd gym. That one requires DeSmuME 0.9.7.
Maps in Diamond and Pearl are broken up into 32-step by 32-step squares that are visible at any time, with nine of these squares loaded at any given time. When a player crosses over the game's various "load lines", located halfway across these 32×32 squares, the next area is loaded to memory, while the previous is unloaded. Through this, the overworld becomes a seamless area.
Using the bicycle in the fourth gear, however, can cause the player to move too fast for the game to load the areas properly, especially if he or she changes direction while doing so to cross over the two load lines in the center of a square nearly simultaneously. Doing so triggers a race condition bug, causing varying effects such as a black area, a white area, or even a fully-loaded area to load, freeze the game, or change the Z-axis location.
The speed of running is probably not even close to be fast enough.
I have a couple movies I did a long time ago using Chimchar. I'll try to dig them up if I can.
mkdasher, do you already know how to get Pokemon stats in this game? I've made Lua scripts in the past, but I think they are of no use to you.
Edit:Here are the files. The first one with Chimchar does not use Hidden Power (and does not get optimal IVs) and goes up to just past the 8th gym (also, it is not optimized, especially near the end). It requires DeSmuME 0.9.6. The second one with Chimchar uses Hidden Power Fighting 70 and gets optimal IVs, and goes up to just past the 2nd gym. That one requires DeSmuME 0.9.7.
I know how to get the stats so don't worry about that. Anyway thanks a lot for the movies, those always help!
jlun2 wrote:
With TAS tools, is it possible to trigger a successful void glitch with just running at a specific pattern?
You can't trigger a void glitch with running, you can perform a different tweak that can unload overworld objects. There are some useful running tweaks on Pokemon HeartGold, but I don't think there are any in Pearl (not found at least)
There are some useful running tweaks on Pokemon HeartGold, but I don't think there are any in Pearl (not found at least)
Is it possible to go to the northern part of Route 210 earlier by triggering running tweaks?
I don't think so, but I don't know (it hasn't been discovered at least).
I have been trying to figure out something else about encounters (since on this game is quite hard to avoid them) but I haven't found anything new, although I noticed it depends on the amount of steps you have done.
I have successfully avoid encounters on Oreburgh Cave by doing 2 extra steps before entering on the cave. If I didn't do that, I'd have an avoidable encounter inside the cave. Still, I don't know how this works exactly.
