Hi everyone, this post marks my debut here at TASVideos. I've been using this site for a few years now, and I've become accustomed to most terms/methods for TASing. Anyway, I've finally decided to formally join the community.
For my first run, I decided to do Darius Twin. For those unfamiliar with the title, it is an auto-scrolling shooter like the gradius series. Now before anyone makes a comment about it being boring, I would like to say that this run can have more entertainment value than Gradius. With the use of 2-ship co-op, you can really do some fun stuff while TASing this game. I feel that this will be difficult for me as a first run, but I have practiced some and feel that with enough motivation, I will be able to see this run to fruition.
I would like to share some of my notes with everyone. Hopefully, I can get some good feedback about this one.
First, the route I've planned for this game: A-B-D-E-H-J-L. This is one of two routes that gives you the most primary weapon power-ups.
Second, I definitely plan to run this game doing co-op. I will control both ships. It would be great to have someone to help, but I know no one who even understands was TAS means. So I'm flying solo on this one.
Third, I'm taking a page from the 100% kill Gradius run. Utilizing two ships will certainly make this within the realm of possible. I don't know yet, but I'm going to see if I can speed up mini-boss/boss fights by alternating shots every frame.
Speaking of shots, I have a dilemma. There is an upgrade in the third stage that looks like a red octagon. It changes your weapon from a laser to a wave. The wave is stronger than the laser, but it goes through enemies. I think for this run, I would like to stick with lasers for the simple need for precision. It would make the run less interesting, IMO, if all of my shots just blasted through all enemies in it's path. No skill involved. That also brings me to the missiles. They start out as missiles, but eventually change into a 4-way laser. This laser pierces, I believe, so it would also go through enemies (another no-no for me). Also, since it's 4-way, that hinders my goal for perfect precision. I don't want to have any wasted shots. So either I only use it when I can kill 4 enemies, or I simply ignore the wasted shots for that weapon. This is where I would like input. I need to have everyone's opinion on this.
I think that just about covers it. Sorry about such a long post. I've been holding onto this information for a while, and needed to finally get it all out. I'm really excited about this run. I think if/when I finish this project, it will be exactly what a TAS is all about. Anyway, I'll quit for now. I appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I used to play this game when I was a lot younger and enjoyed it a lot. The music is pretty nice. I thought it was too easy so I always thought if there was some secret ending or planet.
About the Laser thing, I think as long as you grab all the weapons and show variety, your movie's entertainment value should remain pretty high.
Anyway, I really look forward to this and wish you the best!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Good game choice. It's kind of a linear shooter but it's short enough and flashy enough that it'll be fun to watch. This is the game with the fish bosses, right? (I just checked, yup!)
My two favorite things to see in these types of runs are superhuman accuracy that is impractical to play with, and seeing a variety of weapons. I kind of assume you'll kill everything, but maybe not. I wouldn't not use a weapon just because it would break an accuracy streak. Just make a point of being exceptionally accurate and hide the missed shots well. For the four-way missiles maybe sit on the bottom of the screen so that we never see 2 of them. Or fire the misses and then make my eyes focus on the other side of the screen.
I agree with your decision to skip the piercing weapons. In Gradius where you have shoot some protected cores they're essential. But not here.
I don't think I'm skilled enough to make a run using 2 players. I guess with time I'll get better, but I'm gonna have to warn everyone that it may take a lot of time for me to complete the first level at least. Unless someone has some awesome pointers.
I've gotten to the first power-up, and I think I know how I want to proceed from there. But after watching it, it just doesn't look great. I know it's only a few seconds in game, but still...
Anyway, I work full time and I go to school full time, so bear with me while I struggle to at least get through the first stage. That's when I'll post my WIP. We'll see from there whether I'll actually finish or not.
I don't follow through with many things in my life. TAS's are my hobby. I love watching everyone's movies. I'd also really love to make a movie myself. So I really hope that I make it through this movie. Not only would it be an achievement to make my first, but it would also be one of first things I've actually saw to completion.
Wow, how depressing... sorry 'bout that. Anyway, I'll get back to work. I'll let everyone know when/if I hit a snag.
Weird coincidence: the day before this thread was posted, I started digging through the RAM to make a bot for this game. It was supposed to be a quick, three-hour project; a wingman that would calculate trajectories and generally suck less than I do at playing in realtime. The game turned out to be far less permissive of my shenanigans than most, so that didn't work anywhere near as well as I'd hoped.
However, I did make something that may be helpful to you, Mr. Wynn: an enemy hitpoint overlay script. It's pretty dodgy, but it should make it easier to optimize bosses, since you'll know exactly which hits connect and which don't, as well as how much damage everything does... assuming there are weapons that do more than one point of damage.
The script seems to break on the later bosses, and generally displays more garbage than I'd like, but if you do find it useful I can always fix it later.
ArchieWynn wrote:
I don't think I'm skilled enough to make a run using 2 players. I guess with time I'll get better, but I'm gonna have to warn everyone that it may take a lot of time for me to complete the first level at least. Unless someone has some awesome pointers.
Can't say I have any pointers, but I can tell you that it really is something that gets easier the more you do it.
Anyway, I hope you manage to finish this; I don't think anyone's actually attempted a 2-player shmup before, despite the obvious awesomeness of such a thing.
Anyway, I hope you manage to finish this; I don't think anyone's actually attempted a 2-player shmup before, despite the obvious awesomeness of such a thing.
NES Life Force/Salamander would like a word with you:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1699
My latest post over there: (I just got back into making a little progress, unmentioned over there)
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=187088#187088
I say, go for it! I will make an effort to view your progress whenever you update us. I'm not familiar with this game, but who knows what I might spot.
... Okay, I have nothing useful to say, other than to point out that, yes, there exists an attempt by someone at some point for some other game.
First, the route I've planned for this game: A-B-D-E-H-J-L. This is one of two routes that gives you the most primary weapon power-ups.
As far as I know, weapon powerups don't pertain to certain stages. Or is that not the case with Twin?
Anyway, in regards to your weapon selection. In Darius Gaiden (which, sadly, is the only Darius game I've beat), upgrading the main weapon irreversibly affects rank, the game's dynamic difficulty system that makes the game harder as the player powers up. If the same mechanic is present in Twin, I'm sure it's alright to grab powerups to drive the rank to its maximum level as soon as possible (probably meaning you'll have to fully power up one of the ships earlier than the other). If there is no rank involved, I agree with your sentiments of piercing weapons and such.
In any case, I'd like you to do the hardest (or at least the flashiest) route for obvious reasons, likely with 100% kills.
Interesting game choice, actually. :) I eagerly await a WIP from you.
Catastrophe wrote:
It's kind of a linear shooter…
Funny, the Darius series is nearly unique in its fashion of having multiple branching routes through the game, as well as the ability to choose each next stage up to the end… yet it's being called linear just as well. :P
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Actually, contrary to what I thought before starting to run this, the power-ups, aside from 2 or 3, are set in every stage. So if I want to maximize firepower, I need to select the route that offers the most.
The difficulty is set as well, other than being able to set it to easy from the options menu.
This game appears to be completely different from Darius Gaiden. I've never played that one. Anyway, thanks everyone for your support.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
moozooh wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
It's kind of a linear shooter…
Funny, the Darius series is nearly unique in its fashion of having multiple branching routes through the game, as well as the ability to choose each next stage up to the end… yet it's being called linear just as well. :P
Yeah, I knew someone was going to say that. ;) I agonized over typing "auto-scrolling x-shooter" instead but I decided to call it linear anyway. Sue me. :)
Is there any interest in this run? These are the goals: 2 player, 100% kills, does not take damage, obtains best ending.
For those not aware, the best ending is obtained by following a specific route (ACDFHKL) and not letting any mini-bosses escape or dying over a certain number of times. While this should be the most difficult route, it is not necessarily the fastest. However, I think this will be the most entertaining route and there will not be a large time difference compared to the "fastest" route.
I have a testrun halfway through the first stage, using lsnes. It's pretty sloppy, but I got better as I went along.
http://www.mediafire.com/?n2b8rrv3i7dmror
Also I spent a fair bit of time trying to put together a hitbox overlay script in Lua, so if you still have that old script, Dromiceius, it would help a lot.
Nice to see that somebody is working on this again. There was some talk earlier about not pickup up the piercing weapon upgrade. I think it would be best to use this upgrade - not only is it generally better, it also looks much better.
Agreed. Actually it does not matter how many upgrades you get, each weapon only does 1 damage per hit. But one shot of a piercing weapon can hit a boss multiple times. This outweighs the fact that piercing weapons can only have 3 shots on the screen at once. So both players will be able to deal maximum damage once they each have piercing weapons.
With that said, route choice really doesn't matter much from a time perspective, which is why "best ending" is the way to go. Each level is more or less the same length, and any time differences would be in how quickly I defeat bosses.
I need to get through my Shadowrun TAS first, but this one is next on the list.
I ran two complete testruns. I did not use frame advance for either one and I kept autofire on so they're both sloppy, but I did play in 2 player mode and this is what I learned:
1) You can take route ABDFHKL and still get the best ending. Stage B is 5 frames shorter for some reason, plus you save time on the level select screen so I will take this route in the final run.
2) It may not be possible for both ships to have piercing weapons on the "Best Ending" route. In the test run I wind up being 1 weapon upgrade short; however, some levels have random upgrades, and I have found 2 weapon upgrades so far that were not listed in the guide I'm using, so I may be able to find another.
3) Taking the Best Ending route is around 25 seconds longer in these testruns. Most of this is due to a tougher boss fight, with some caused by having weaker weapons. I think I can improve the time related to weapons by focusing more upgrades on one ship and timing the other ship's attacks so there's less gap in between shots. But there's probably around 15 seconds that are unavoidable.
With that said, I'm curious to know whether anyone thinks the best ending route is worth the additional time. The first file below is the best ending route, and the second file should start at a different stage for the second to last level (everything before this is the same).
http://www.mediafire.com/?injx5bt8wiq755rhttp://www.mediafire.com/?a66dz4kb8gpyzwb
Also the levels are fairly sparse for most of the game, so I need to get creative to keep the run entertaining. I have a few ideas but I would be interested to hear any others.
Use whatever route is most impressive; time is not the highest priority in fixed-speed shooters, because, lag reduction aside, it's trivial to be as fast as possible.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
