So Some people think TAS Videos are basically people without any type of skill playing a game to achieve cool videos, but compensating for the lack of skill, by playing the game 20x slower than normal. These people often prefer SDA because everything is done in real time, and factors such as distractions and mistakes are shown also.
On the other hand...
You have people who think TAS Videos have more merit because they show the ability to plan and organize, and to form strategies for getting through certain games, and also some videos have a bit of creativity in them, and because they are almost always more spectacular videos than those of SDA type format.
So, What do you think and why?
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
Regardless of which you prefer, both communities benefit each other by showing new routes and tricks.
There are a few crossover players who do both as well.
I think both are great communities to have around. But, at the same time, great that they're separated because they show entirely different skill sets.
Personally I appreciate many, but not all regular speedruns. For instance, I'm a huge fan of the Quake Done Quick runs. I was in fact such a big fan that I bought Quake (in a Q1 Q2 Q3 combo pack) for the sole reason of being able to watch the speedruns at full resolution. (Of course I played Q2 through, and some Q3, but I would honestly not have bought the pack if it weren't for QdQ.)
QdQ is a good example of speedrunning because it really shows the skill and amount of effort put into making them. The speedrunners have literally practiced their speedrunning skills for years to achieve that level of mastery. I'm really in awe with those runs.
But as I said, that doesn't mean I appreciate all speedruns. Some of them are full of mistakes and sloppy play (usually because it's a slightly less popular game, and there might be only one or two persons even attempting to speedrun it, without any true competition and challenge to beat others' times).
Sometimes speedrunners don't care about entertaining the viewer and, on the contrary, seem to have the goal of outright annoying the viewer as bad as they possibly can. This can become really jarring at times. (Yes, I have already been extremely flamed because of this opinion in the past, in this very forum, so no need to do it again, alright?)
Othertimes the quality of the game settings may not be the best possible, considerably degrading the visual experience. (Often it's because of technical limitations because the runner has to have both the game and the capturing software running at the same time, and there's just so much that his PC can do.) Regardless of the reason, this also can get quite jarring at times.
One thing which I appreciate in TASes is that since there are no technical reasons for either mistakes, sloppy play, entertainment or poor-quality settings, the overall quality of the videos is rather high (so basically the only affecting entertainment factor is whether the game itself is fun to watch being beaten superfast or not).
Most TASes might not require extreme playing skills, but they do require tons of hard work and perseverance. In some cases they require tons of background research (eg. game mechanics, routes, etc), studying the source code, utilising of tools, and even creating new tools specifically for the task in question (eg. bot programming).
I admire most those TASes for which the amount of work put into them is simply enormous.
Well, I do not typically like TAS Videos, maby because of how they are advertised more so than how they are made. Like you will have a video of a guy beating some game in 14 seconds without making a single mistake at all... no one ever mentions that he played the game very slow, plays with recorded chops, used a bot, or downright altered the game in some way. Rather its present as "some guy with good skill playing a game", and when you put that next to people who actually do speed runs it basically steps all over them.
Also when someone does an SDA run, they have to look all that information up aswell, in terms of the backgrounds, the routes, how the game works, the RNG, etc etc...
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
sixofour wrote:
Well, I do not typically like TAS Videos, maby because of how they are advertised more so than how they are made. Like you will have a video of a guy beating some game in 14 seconds without making a single mistake at all... no one ever mentions that he played the game very slow, plays with recorded chops, or downright altered the game in some way. Rather its present as "some guy with good skill playing a game", and when you put that next to people who actually do speed runs it basically steps all over them.
You know something? We hate it when that happens too.
(admittedly I could be better about it on my Youtube channel...)
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
I guess this issue is more with the attitudes of the people.
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
Well, I do not typically like TAS Videos, maby because of how they are advertised more so than how they are made. Like you will have a video of a guy beating some game in 14 seconds without making a single mistake at all... no one ever mentions that he played the game very slow, plays with recorded chops, used a bot, or downright altered the game in some way. Rather its present as "some guy with good skill playing a game", and when you put that next to people who actually do speed runs it basically steps all over them.
Well, at this site, all movies are clearly labeled as being tool assisted speedruns, with a link to the site for more information. None of the TASes use cheats, or play an alterned version of the game (besides obviously hacks). I'd say it's a bad reason to "typically not like TAS Videos"... as it more sounds like you don't like the people who pass them off as non-toolassisted speedruns. Either way, you won't find those people here...
I guess this issue is more with the attitudes of the people.
I think some people are always going to be whining about some aspect of either. There is no pleasing everybody.
It's funny how uppity people get about trivial things.
I can understand the people over at SDA getting way more concerned over the distinction between a real time run and a tool assisted one. Again, this is why this site clearly labels each video as being tool assisted with links back to this site explaining exactly what that entails.
When I first saw the Morimoto SMB3 vid I def thought it was a real time run by some crazy Korean player. I was slightly disappointed when I found out how it was done, but after researching into it more I had a new found appreciation for the work that went into making entertaining tool assisted runs.
I love both now. You don't have to swear allegiance to anyone, ha. Like I said before, there are now crossover players who do both.
Well In general I don't find it too interesting to run through a game doing nothing special just trying to get a fast time. Of course you can do that, that is the point of a speed run, TAS or SDA, but I think TAS videos should have a need to be more creative also. Pick one of the many Mario speed runs that have like 5 stars...they are just speed runs. Some of them are spiffy, like Mario little only...yet at the same time, its impossible to get hurt in a TAS video unless you intend to do it. [or you are just not a very good TAS maker] So what was the point?
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
Well In general I don't find it too interesting to run through a game doing nothing special just trying to get a fast time. Of course you can do that, that is the point of a speed run, TAS or SDA, but I think TAS videos should have a need to be more creative also. Pick one of the many Mario speed runs that have like 5 stars...they are just speed runs. Some of them are spiffy, like Mario little only...yet at the same time, its impossible to get hurt in a TAS video unless you intend to do it. [or you are just not a very good TAS maker] So what was the point?
I edited my post and added more after you posted, read!
Yeah. I remember watch some runs and getting disappointed [pissed off even] that they were tool-assisted. I mean there is nothing wrong with a TASe video, but you have all these extra tools available and [most] of the tas runners can't do anything remotely creative other than a speed run and juggling some turtle shells?
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
I don't think either has more 'merit' so to speak.
I personally prefer watching TASes much of the time because the overall result is much more visually appealing. More time is spent in a TAS perfecting the method instead of repeating a possibly flawed or less optimal method to perform consistently. In general, you become a lot more skilled and knowledgeable about a game's mechanics after TASing it. There are some really impressive realtime runs out there, and I'm sure many people enjoy watching them.
The TASVideos and SDA communities often both contribute to the development of tactics for a popular game.
Much of the backstory of how a TAS develops often occurs in the individual game threads and not the submissions much of the time. The author puts as much effort into the submission text as he cares to, I'm sure the same is true on SDA. Most of the information is available, just maybe not in the same place you're viewing the run.
sixofour wrote:
Well, I do not typically like TAS Videos, maby because of how they are advertised more so than how they are made.
Front Page - "TASVideos is a website formed in 2003 for publishing tool-assisted game movies. We publish recordings of classic console games, formed by constructing an input file slowly over time using an emulator as a tool to overcome human limitations such as skill and reflex, then playing the file back to give the impression that the game is played extraordinarily."
I don't think we need to state more clearly what we do here. A poorly labeled youtube video is probably the result of someone who is not a part of the community uploading the video to gain views. All videos produced here are supposed to have a logo at the beginning stating that it is a TAS, if not specified elsewhere.
sixofour wrote:
Well In general I don't find it too interesting to run through a game doing nothing special just trying to get a fast time.
We also produce playaround videos here at times. Many of them do not get published because the criteria is vague. All good TASers should show off whenever possible if it does not cost time.
The point of most of the videos is to impress the audience by showing how fast a game could possibly be beaten with the given knowledge at the time.
sixofour wrote:
but you have all these extra tools available and [most] of the tas runners can't do anything remotely creative other than a speed run and juggling some turtle shells?
Well, I do not typically like TAS Videos, maby because of how they are advertised more so than how they are made. Like you will have a video of a guy beating some game in 14 seconds without making a single mistake at all... no one ever mentions that he played the game very slow, plays with recorded chops, used a bot, or downright altered the game in some way. Rather its present as "some guy with good skill playing a game", and when you put that next to people who actually do speed runs it basically steps all over them.
Also when someone does an SDA run, they have to look all that information up aswell, in terms of the backgrounds, the routes, how the game works, the RNG, etc etc...
A bunch of shitty YouTubers have ruined the good name of Tool-Assisted Speedruns, but anything emanating from tasvideos is clearly and unmistakably marked as having been made with numerous re-records and frame advance, and almost everyone who uploads an encode to YouTube ends up just blocking every blockhead who continues to insist, after all the notices, that a TAS is cheating.
P.S.: Just because it's tool-assisted doesn't mean it's a TAS; in particular a freerun is not a TAS.
We also produce playaround videos here at times. Many of them do not get published because the criteria is vague. All good TASers should show off whenever possible if it does not cost time.
Where are these playaround videos that have been reject for vague criteria?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Yeah. I remember watch some runs and getting disappointed [pissed off even] that they were tool-assisted. I mean there is nothing wrong with a TASe video, but you have all these extra tools available and [most] of the tas runners can't do anything remotely creative other than a speed run and juggling some turtle shells?
So what you want are machinima videos, not speedruns? Then try googling for "machinima videos" if that's what you are interested in.
I don't even understand the question "what's the point in tool-assisted speedruns?". What's the point in regular speedruns? The point in TASes is exactly the same, but with a different approach: What would happen if human limitations were removed?
We also produce playaround videos here at times. Many of them do not get published because the criteria is vague. All good TASers should show off whenever possible if it does not cost time.
Where are these playaround videos that have been reject for vague criteria?
I don't think they're properly submitted, because their creators already knew they were not worthy of publication; dig around in the threads.
However, the startlingly good nature of the TASvideos forumers has turned it into something worth reading. Almost.
I've always been on the fence, and enjoying the greenest grass. Both are great, neither is better.
Well In general I don't find it too interesting to run through a game doing nothing special just trying to get a fast time. Of course you can do that, that is the point of a speed run, TAS or SDA, but I think TAS videos should have a need to be more creative also. Pick one of the many Mario speed runs that have like 5 stars...they are just speed runs. Some of them are spiffy, like Mario little only...yet at the same time, its impossible to get hurt in a TAS video unless you intend to do it. [or you are just not a very good TAS maker] So what was the point?
You truly do not understand the TAS if this is your opinion.
You should look at some of the more glitched out TAS' - Super Mario 64, Mega Man, Chrono Trigger, Maxim HoS run, etc - they all are exceptionally technical. A ton of experimentation and work went into discovering the very advanced techniques used in these videos.
TAS videos are also extremely creative. I don't know what you're talking about. Watch the fighting games TAS' published here. They're very creative.
Also, getting hurt to save time happens a lot. It's a valid strategic choice and it plays into the creativity mentioned before.
My homepage is SDA. I am a billion percent more active in the TASvideos forums and IRC. Honestly, I just love speedruns created by both humans, non-humans (andrewg_ and stanski come to mind,) and emulators played by humans. Overall, I just love seeing games decimated. Especially if they are too hard for my lazy bum to beat on my own. :3
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
You truly do not understand the TAS if this is your opinion.
You should look at some of the more glitched out TAS' - Super Mario 64, Mega Man, Chrono Trigger, Maxim HoS run, etc - they all are exceptionally technical. A ton of experimentation and work went into discovering the very advanced techniques used in these videos.
TAS videos are also extremely creative. I don't know what you're talking about. Watch the fighting games TAS' published here. They're very creative.
Also, getting hurt to save time happens a lot. It's a valid strategic choice and it plays into the creativity mentioned before.
I understand the point of a TAS, but I don't understand why. Anyone, TAS or not, does a ton of experimentation and technical work work. Only TAS are done in slow motion. So what is the merit of a TAS? Wouldn't it be better if the person made the video with the game running a normal speed? While still doing all the tricks one does.
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
[00:31:12] <stickie> by the way, thanks for the sig sixofour
[00:31:23] <sixofour> dejavu
[00:31:25] <sixofour> what sig?
[00:31:55] <stickie> you will just have to find out *insert mystical music*
