Well, I'm pretty surprised there isn't a run for this game yet, so I decided to try.
I made an experimental run of the intro stage. The movie file can be downloaded here and viewed online here.
The test run reaches the Stage Selection screen, from power on, in around 2 minutes and 19 seconds.
I am sure it can be improved, movement can be more precise and those 13 remaining Mega Balls could be put to good use.
Before continuing, I thought it would be wise to discuss whether to attempt to grab Bolts or not, because there is a power up after the first wave of Robot Masters that might be worth considering: the Hyper Slider.
It costs 5 Bolts, and it boosts sliding speed. As for the bolts, there are some on the first four stages that do not require you to go out of your way to get them, but not grabbing them at all might be faster for some, and are faster for others.
I have to see how fast Mega Man slides with and without the Hyper Slider first, though.
Anyway, I am considering the following boss orders:
Grenade Man -> Frost Man -> Tengu Man -> Clown Man.
Tengu Man -> Clown Man -> Grenade Man -> Frost Man.
Both boss orders are good in terms of Bolts. Grenade Man, Tengu Man have some really easy ones, and Frost Man has one that does not waste time.
Both beat bosses in order of weakness, and the optimal run out of those two seems to be dependant on who can be beaten faster: Grenade Man or Tengu Man, since Hyper Slider is only available after the first wave of bosses.
I think Tengu Man can be beaten faster, with enough luck manipulating. Plus, I think it's a lot easier to use Thunder Claw on Grenade Man than to use Ice Wave on Tengu Man, so that might be the best route.
Hyper Slider is a definite must. I know you can easily get 5 bolts without losing that much time.
As for the first 4, take Grenade Man out first. I believe you can beat him faster because you can almost always hit him with the buster while Tengu has periods you can't.
Maybe.
BTW, what level do you get Rush Bike in? That's a difference maker too. I think you do get that in Grenade Man (from the mini boss), which make's Clown Man's level faster. I don't know if a TAS perfected slide slide jump jump could be faster then that.
You acquire the Rush Bike in Grenade Man's stage.
I am past the mini boss that gives it to you already, but the part with the green blocks which you have to destroy desynced.
I'm trying to fix it right now.
Anyway, Rush Bike will be useful in almost all of the stages.
About the Bolts, I collected 2 in Grenade Man's stage, will collect 2 in Frost Man's, and will collect the final one on Clown Man's.
By the way, do you guys think it's worth considering other power ups besides Hyper Slider, like the Energy Saver? I was watching a few videos, and it seems useful against some bosses in the Wily stages.
About the only weapon energy you would really need to worry about is Astro Crush, which really is only good on Aqua Man and Wily, but the latter really doesn't matter to be honest. You'll be using other stuff besides that.
Items that should be looked into:
Power Shield - 6 bolts - Depends on how much damage you're taking, if any. Likely not gonna be useful though.
Laser Shot - 5 bolts
Arrow Shot - 5 bolts
I don't know how well those will work with TASing, but something to consider, especially laser since it hits the enemy and keeps on going.
Energy Saver - 6 bolts - As you stated, probably something to consider. Likely in the end not worth it, but let's keep it in mind.
Highspeed Charger - 7 bolts - Depends on how much you'll use the buster. If you use it a lot at full power, then it'll be worth it. But given that it comes late, probably won't be worth the time it takes to get 7 bolts.
Step Booster - 5 bolts - For a normal run, a must. But since I doubt there's areas that you can't use the Mega Ball Bounce on where you'd use this.
Uh, yeah. Looks like everything else is probably worthless. ^^;;
Finally, someone steps up to the challenge of this beautiful game! I will try to help you out.
First things first: you have to keep in mind you are TASing, so problems like in normal plays like hittable enemy or weapon management are not that of a concern, mainly route and planning.
btw, I would VERY much appreciate if you could provide small encodes of your WIPs, since I have no way of viewing your WIP for the emulator. Maybe you could tell me what Emulator I should use and if the original CD if MM8 in my drive would work, too or if I need the ISO :)
Sir VG wrote:
About the only weapon energy you would really need to worry about is Astro Crush, which really is only good on Aqua Man and Wily, but the latter really doesn't matter to be honest. You'll be using other stuff besides that.
Its enough for Aquaman. Use other weapons later on for Wily, just not worth the Energy Half.
Sir VG wrote:
Power Shield - 6 bolts - Depends on how much damage you're taking, if any. Likely not gonna be useful though.
Its a NO in a TAS.
Sir VG wrote:
Laser Shot - 5 bolts
Arrow Shot - 5 bolts
Arrow is not needed with the Megaball trick, and laser also not, you could just spam small shots and look how they fly and redo.
Sir VG wrote:
Energy Saver - 6 bolts - As you stated, probably something to consider. Likely in the end not worth it, but let's keep it in mind.
Sir VG wrote:
Highspeed Charger - 7 bolts - Depends on how much you'll use the buster. If you use it a lot at full power, then it'll be worth it. But given that it comes late, probably won't be worth the time it takes to get 7 bolts.
With weapon switching without the use of the pause menu you wont need this at all.
Sir VG wrote:
Step Booster - 5 bolts - For a normal run, a must. But since I doubt there's areas that you can't use the Mega Ball Bounce on where you'd use this.
What does this do? Is it a powerup for Megaball or such?
And as for Route: Tengu first, please! It is faster.
i highly doubt doing Tengu Man first is faster than Grenade first solely because of Rush Cycle. you don't lose much from fighting Grenade without Thunder Claw, and you gain a little bit from using Ice Wave on Tengu.
Highspeed Charger will probably be useless. i forget, can you use special weapons while charging the buster?
Preddy: Step Booster increases the speed Mega Man climbs ladders. i think that's 100% unnecessary for a TAS. you should be MBBing the entire time.
i highly doubt doing Tengu Man first is faster than Grenade first solely because of Rush Cycle. you don't lose much from fighting Grenade without Thunder Claw, and you gain a little bit from using Ice Wave on Tengu.
Highspeed Charger will probably be useless. i forget, can you use special weapons while charging the buster?
Thanks, Chris!
How long is weapon energy for rush bike? if its considerably long, maybe it can help in some parts...but grenade mans level is too thin to use it i think.
hm, you should really test how long it takes for both possible routes...maybe im wrong...for me tengu is faster, but maybe Chris is right.
btw, I would VERY much appreciate if you could provide small encodes of your WIPs, since I have no way of viewing your WIP for the emulator. Maybe you could tell me what Emulator I should use and if the original CD if MM8 in my drive would work, too or if I need the ISO :).
I have the stage 1 WIP on video, but when I upload it to YouTube, the video becomes corrupted. I think it's a problem with the codec, I used H.264 Lossless, maybe the site doesn't support it?
I will re-capture it with using another codec when I get home.
PreddY wrote:
How long is weapon energy for rush bike? if its considerably long, maybe it can help in some parts...but grenade mans level is too thin to use it i think.
hm, you should really test how long it takes for both possible routes...maybe im wrong...for me tengu is faster, but maybe Chris is right.
The Rush Bike lasts for 40 seconds, and will be useful immediately, on the second part of Grenade Man's level.
I think beating Tengu Man first would be slower, because, as previously stated, he is hard to hit, so I think it's better to have the weapon he is weak to beforehand.
About the Energy Saver, I don't think it will be that useful. It saves time o Aqua Man, and maybe in some Wily bosses, but I think the time it takes to collect the bolts far outweighs it.
I don't think the Mega Buster enhancements will be nescessary, the regular, rapid fire buster can already rip through most enemies very quickly and efficiently.
The only place I think High Speed Charge would be useful is in the fight against Bass. In the videos I see, people always use the Mega Buster against him, so I'm assuming it is the best weapon for the fight, but I still have to comfirm that. If that's the case, it would be useful in that fight, but the time it takes to collect 7 bolts far surparses the time saved.
Also, using the Mega Ball is much more efficient than climbing ladders, sometimes even jumping. It is an ability that should be abused as much as possible. That takes me back to the Energy Saver, because with it, there would be more ammunition available, but I think that problem can be solved by killing enemies for weapon energy capsules.
I will re-capture it with using another codec when I get home.
The only place I think High Speed Charge would be useful is in the fight against Bass. In the videos I see, people always use the Mega Buster against him, so I'm assuming it is the best weapon for the fight, but I still have to comfirm that. If that's the case, it would be useful in that fight, but the time it takes to collect 7 bolts far surparses the time saved.
An encode is appreciated!
Hm, I think the most ppl use Buster because its the easiest way. If I remember correctly, there are multiple weapons that hurt him for the same amount as a full charged shot does, so in TAS you could simply rapidly change weapons for entertainment and killtime.
I just remembered about that one other boss - Wily 3 against the one that looks like an airplane with lasers. He's weak against Astro Crush. How many hits does it take with that to kill him?
I just remembered about that one other boss - Wily 3 against the one that looks like an airplane with lasers. He's weak against Astro Crush. How many hits does it take with that to kill him?
5, maybe with hit manipulation 4. but crush can be easily refilled before aquaman.
I just remembered about that one other boss - Wily 3 against the one that looks like an airplane with lasers. He's weak against Astro Crush. How many hits does it take with that to kill him?
That's the boss I was talking about, it takes more than 4 Astro Crushes to kill it, hence why it would be useful there.
Oh I almost forgot, PreddY, you asked me which emulator and version of the game was used, I used an ISO whose code is SLUS00453, if your CD is of the US version of the game, it should work fine. I used PCSX Re-recording v0.0.7.
Speaking of that, I see it has updated, and I probably should, too. Do you guys know if it is possible to continue work on the test run if I update the emulator?
I found an old "TAS" (or just some really freaking good Japanese player) and he used 6 on that boss. Don't know if it was just bad play on his part or what...
He also used Astro Crush in combo with the buster at Forte.
I found an old "TAS" (or just some really freaking good Japanese player) and he used 6 on that boss. Don't know if it was just bad play on his part or what...
He also used Astro Crush in combo with the buster at Forte.
then its bad play...
astro crush, at least for me, was in the Forte battle to dodge his big bang strike thats hard to dodge :) but it doesnt do more damage.
I uploaded a video of stage 1 to YouTube, which can be found here.
I'm still trying to get the movie to sync, but I think I'm close.
Also, thanks FractalFusion! That trick will really speed things up!
Fixed, sorry.
Edit:
Well, hex editing didn't work at all, so I decided to redo that section.
I'm still working on the mini boss, but I thought I'd release what's been done, download it here.
I think I could have saved more Mega Balls to use on the mini boss.
I'll upload it to YouTube when I complete the stage.
- More precise movement;
- Efficient use of the remaining Mega Balls;
- Faster boss battle, by dropping the Mega Balls directly on the boss instead of kicking them at it.
I liked your movement ^^ or is it possible to dodge some of those rolling crabs? can a Megaball kill such a crab instead of throwing it backwards?
Maybe you would lose time to get near to the boss, that kicking seemed pretty optimized already. other opinions?
