Topic by Brandon

Posted: 8/8/2011 2:26 PM

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Brandon

He/Him

Editor, Player (190)

Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 913
Location: Tennessee

I'm not so sure I agree that the map glitch is game breaking. I'd call game breaking a glitch that severely distorts the game's engine. The tile glitching technique completely changes the properties of the enemies and the terrain, while this glitch nearly places your character in a different position. My idea would not bypass instrument collection. It's kind of similar to Tanooki's idea, but the only restriction is not tile glitching (You could collect the sword if it would help).

All the best, Brandon Evans

Posted: 3/22/2012 4:16 AM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

I've been considering the idea of a playaround and I'm slowly starting on a route for when I do it. So far it starts off by getting the lvl-1 sword and the lvl-0 shield then steal the shovel (and maybe the bow), then I am considering doing something like Tanooki Teabag where I warp into level 8 and get the rod plus lvl-2 power brace. Here's a short WIP I made just to try plan the start out. I really like the ideas for a playaround that have been suggested on irc and in my submissions thread, but getting some feedback on when I should do these tricks would be cool. I'm also considering playing around with the doghouse trick more and aiming for most if not all items. Again, ideas for awesome playaround tricks and when I should try to implement them (other than the already stated ones) would be great. Besides that, an improvement on the any% warp route is going smoothly. Edit: Here's what I pulled off in some spare time. Basically got the sword, lvl 0 shield, warped into level 8, got the rod, warped into PB-hallway and got lvl-2, did a weird screenwarp based off some mini-boss rooms odd physics, warped through several rooms, and got another PB for the heck of it and reset.

Posted: 3/22/2012 10:24 PM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

Unable to watch vbm files here, unfortunately. I'd recommend getting early flippers (not sure exactly when, just don't wait too long) because you can use the warp glitch in an overworld side scroll area (fishing minigame would be a good option for this). Then you could walk through a broken-physics overworld. Flippers are nice to have since so many tiles become water tiles. I'd try not to break the sequence of events too badly, because you don't want to skip past getting Marin, Bow-Wow, etc. I'm fairly certain the ghost will never show up if you get the level 2 bracelet before completing the fourth dungeon, so keep that in mind. By completing the seventh dungeon before getting the Rooster, you can keep him permanently. Digging up Richard's key before turning in the five leaves gives you a key that looks like a leaf. You should be able to get the magnifying lens without doing any part of the trading quest, but IIRC it isn't actually a lens unless you've gotten the mermaid's scale; I think it's whatever item is next for you on the trading quest. This should be checked--if I'm mistaken, it may be good to get the boomerang really early and have some fun with that. I can't remember if cucco attacks happen in this game. If they do, you could include that as well, and drag a bunch of angry chickens with you via the screen warp. I'd also mess around with magic powder/ fire rod + enemy sprite glitching; if you warp some Moblins down from the forest, they can end up with sprites from villagers. Then you look like Link the Psychopath, setting innocent citizens aflame. Note when using the warp glitch to duplicate items (for example, seashells) that collecting an item on a different screen makes it impossible to bring the same item to the same screen again. Something to keep in mind. I wonder if you can drag the Walrus across transitions and have Marin sing to him somewhere silly, like near Eagle's tower (and subsequently have him jumping off the mountain instead of into the water).

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Posted: 3/22/2012 10:30 PM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

Bobmario511 wrote:

I've been considering the idea of a playaround and I'm slowly starting on a route for when I do it. So far it starts off by getting the lvl-1 sword and the lvl-0 shield then steal the shovel (and maybe the bow)

I don't think you should let the shopkeeper kill you. So only steal the bow. But make sure to name yourself THIEF at the beginning of the game.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/22/2012 10:36 PM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

Acheron86 wrote:

I'd recommend getting early flippers (not sure exactly when, just don't wait too long) because you can use the warp glitch in an overworld side scroll area (fishing minigame would be a good option for this). Then you could walk through a broken-physics overworld. Flippers are nice to have since so many tiles become water tiles.

But not too early! Be sure to get Mambo's mambo before flippers, because that's really funny.

Acheron86 wrote:

I'd try not to break the sequence of events too badly, because you don't want to skip past getting Marin, Bow-Wow, etc. I'm fairly certain the ghost will never show up if you get the level 2 bracelet before completing the fourth dungeon, so keep that in mind. By completing the seventh dungeon before getting the Rooster, you can keep him permanently.

On the other hand, you do want to get some of these at the same time, so you want to screw up the sequence a little.

Acheron86 wrote:

You should be able to get the magnifying lens without doing any part of the trading quest, but IIRC it isn't actually a lens unless you've gotten the mermaid's scale; I think it's whatever item is next for you on the trading quest. This should be checked--if I'm mistaken, it may be good to get the boomerang really early and have some fun with that.

I remember the same. Warping there early, and it's a Yoshi doll. But you can skip straight to the honeycomb part of the trading game. Tarin gives it to you after you beat the slime dungeon.

Acheron86 wrote:

I can't remember if cucco attacks happen in this game.

They do.

Acheron86 wrote:

I wonder if you can drag the Walrus across transitions and have Marin sing to him somewhere silly, like near Eagle's tower (and subsequently have him jumping off the mountain instead of into the water).

ROFL! That'd be absolutely hillarious!

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/23/2012 6:42 AM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

Potential WIP: Link to video Anyway, got the sword, lvl-0 shield, warped into level 8, got the rod, the lvl-2 PB. Went underground and got 50r, and warped to get 100r(150r) + ocarina. Reset so I could warp to the nearby Mambo and get his song. Had a weird glitch after changing his screen because no buttons other than <>v^ would work, so I needed to take that damage. Took a nearby exit that led me to a place where I could easily doghouse glitch into underworld 1. Got 50r(200r), a weird boss message and the flippers. Purchased shovel, bombs (sub-optimally as I noticed after encoding, will redo that), and stole the bow. What do you guys think so far? I can hex things out if they appear boring, I tried to do a variety of things. I might go to level 1 next and complete it to start the bow-wow thing (I think it begins then). If for some reason getting any of these items out of order (as Acheron86 said about the ghost and the lvl-2 PB) I’ll try hexing it out. I really like the walrus idea and judging from how Mambo behaves on other screens I’d think he would too. Lastly, I can hex the starting name to “thief” as suggested if that works better. Edit: Needed to add this thing I accidently did to mambo...

Posted: 3/23/2012 8:45 AM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

You learned the Dancing Stalfos Song! :P Okay, I forgot something really cool. For some reason, in the fifth dungeon, side-warping in a passage causes a lot of funky treasure chest effects. You get weird messages and it triggers songs from various areas when you open the chests in the dungeon. I don't know what causes this or if it's possible to do in other dungeons. It's quite interesting to mess with, though. Yes, Bow-wow depends only on clearing the L1 dungeon (can be triggered at any time I believe). Long as you don't return him to Madam Meow-Meow he'll stay with you the rest of the game (and if you warp glitch into dungeons instead of using direct entrances, you can bring him with you, and he eats pretty much every enemy, which can be fun). I don't think it's a HUGE loss if you skip the ghost, only because the game lags pretty hard with a full party (Marin, Bow-Wow, Rooster, Ghost). If you do get the ghost, I'd get him last, then if lag is a problem, take Marin to the Walrus and warp glitch him elsewhere to get rid of her so you aren't lagging madly. Marin shows up after L3 Dungeon I believe. Other ideas: Marin after the L7 Dungeon is stuck on a bridge. Normally she leaves you immediately after you rescue her because you pull her to safety with the hookshot, but I'm wondering if you can keep her around by glitching the overworld physics and then just walking into her. I've never tested this, but it could be possible to have two Marins...? I'd suggest doing the trading quest starting with the honeycomb after the third dungeon, as Nach mentioned, because it's just too cool to fly around with the Rooster while the boomerang and Bow-Wow murder everything in sight, and you need the magnify lens to get that. Not entirely sure what happens if you get the Yoshi doll after getting the Honeycomb... Nach might know. Might break the quest, which would be a shame. I literally laughed aloud at that Mambo screenshot. The run got better as it went on. I especially like the wrong way entrance to the South Shrine, and the glitches after that. Question: Why do you take a long route to getting the P2 bracelet? Is that just for fun? It's not bad, just not clear why you took the extra time there. Run looks like has a lot of potential and I like where you're going. I would like to see a L2 sword pickup in this run, and that isn't too difficult if you warp glitch to collect extra seashells, but that's up to you. If it's possible, try to warp into caves from dungeons when you can--it's pretty neat to see caves with dungeon tilesets. (BTW, thanks for the encode. I'm on a mac here so I can't play back files, or I would. Much appreciated.)

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Posted: 3/23/2012 11:09 AM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

Bobmario511 wrote:

What do you guys think so far?

It's good! I think you should go beat the Angler fish though on one of the other screens without even getting the flippers, because it's funny! Maybe get the heart piece by him before the flippers too? I'd also show off a few L2 bracelets to make sure the idea really sinks in to those who don't know the game that well.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Lastly, I can hex the starting name to “thief” as suggested if that works better.

THIEF yes. It's funny because the game tries to change your name, and it already is your name.

Acheron86 wrote:

Other ideas: Marin after the L7 Dungeon is stuck on a bridge. Normally she leaves you immediately after you rescue her because you pull her to safety with the hookshot, but I'm wondering if you can keep her around by glitching the overworld physics and then just walking into her. I've never tested this, but it could be possible to have two Marins...?

I remember the game checks to see if you have Marin in any of the places she is supposed to appear and doesn't if you have her.

Acheron86 wrote:

because it's just too cool to fly around with the Rooster while the boomerang and Bow-Wow murder everything in sight

Indeed it is! There is something you can't do with Bow Wow around though, I forget offhand what is is. Probably something we won't be needing anyway.

Acheron86 wrote:

, and you need the magnify lens to get that. Not entirely sure what happens if you get the Yoshi doll after getting the Honeycomb... Nach might know. Might break the quest, which would be a shame.

The doll disappears from the trendy game.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/23/2012 11:50 PM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

I'm not sure why, but changing Link's name to THIEF caused desynchs on the screenwarp right before getting the sword. I fixed that but the randomness for the crab enemy was changed so I couldn't easily shield boost off it without wasting time to manipulate it. Luckily after redoing up to entering level 8 everything synched from there. As for fighting angler, I found a way to defeat him and it basically screws up the games music pretty badly. Based on my position after the fight, I can get the roc's feather and the flippers. Bit more screen warping than my WIP though. Will optimize this later. -- Lots of edit time I delayed getting the 2nd power bracelet to show off a strange warp in that mini boss room (warps you several screens without screenwarp) Regarding warping from a dungeon into a cave, I don't think it's possible since their maps aren't connected. For getting the first instrument, I think I'll do something like Tanooki Teabag's run and warp in with a glitched tile set. From there I'll warp to mambo's pond and go up to quickly get bow-wow. Knowing what to do here is what has got me stuck though... From bow-wow's captive place, I can easily warp to the final boss, but there is not much fun in that (besides bow-wow looking all creepy). Additionally, his captive place is on underworld 2 making it so I can only warp between levels 7/8 and lots of caves. Most of the other nearby caves I've looked at also take link to underworld I so I don't have easy access to levels 1-6. With that said, I can go to the lvl7 boss and kill it for a heart container, then do something. -- Even more edit... Found the glitchiest way to get the second instrument and working on the part after that.

Posted: 3/25/2012 7:12 PM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

I was under the impression that dungeons and caves shared maps. You linked to a site that suggests that in your previous submission. That's all I meant before. It might not last long enough to be worth doing. Unless you don't plan on getting the Boomerang or Marin, you'll want to complete the third dungeon earlier on, to get the Honeycomb and to allow her to be on the beach. (Any idea if it's possible to warp into the screen with the seagulls on the beach? Not sure where that screen is stored in the game, since it doesn't have normal transitions).

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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:49 AM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

The maps are rather confusing honestly, but from what I understand the only way caves and dungeons can be accessed from each other is if you are in the underworld 1 or 2 maps or something, its odd. On an even stranger note, I found a way to warp from the entrence to the level 8 instrument into the room with the level 1 instrument. No idea why it does that. Since I already have the level 1 instrument at this point in what I've done, I'm thinking I'm going to try changing the warp point to somewhere else (besides the cello room I've managed 1 other room in level 1 and various glitched and unglitched rooms in level 8). I think I'll get the 8th instrument, then do level 3 somehow, get the hive, trade it, get malon (god it glitches out with both bow-wow and her) and then try stuff with the walrus. I've made sure getting the 8th instrument doesn't make this impossible :) Any ideas on what I should do after the walrus? I'm sure I'll find something, but ideas help.

Posted: 3/26/2012 3:28 AM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

I wonder what happens if you warp glitch to drag an instrument to a different room, then collect it... (Normally wouldn't be possible as the door locks behind you, but you could glitch physics first.) Based on how the game normally handles this, you could collect the instrument normally on a different screen, but then it should still be there in its original room. If that's the case, you might be able to get the same instrument twice, which would be entertaining. Alternatively, you could pick up an instrument for the dungeon you have loaded by beating another dungeon's boss if you warped properly, which would be good for a laugh. I'd start looking at rupee collection for the money needed to get the rooster-reviving song. The sooner you get the bird, the better, I think. Seashell collection can happen on the way if you want. I'm also curious as to what happens if you try to take the raft from the rapids out of its normal area by warp glitching...

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Posted: 3/26/2012 3:54 AM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

If you think it would be more interesting, I can collect 2 cello's with that weird warp. For the rooster I have 192/300 (I think) rupees since I s&q after getting the shovel. Regarding seashell collection, should I just glitch them over and over or find them all (or a combo)? Woah, your idea about getting an instrument in a different room did some crazy stuff on my first test attempt. I was able to get 2 cellos of awakening into the lvl1 boss room and after collecting one it warped link into the underground area that he goes after falling in the boss fight. I'll test a few other instruments and see if I can get awesome results like that. -- Edit: Level 2's instrument gives 1 more option since we can warp further (the boss room in level 1 stops the warp and kind of traps him). It starts him in a blank room in level 1 with glitched physics below the area with the rocks feather. Collecting the instrument in the boss room of level 8 warps Link into a random place in level 1 with glitched physics. Collecting it in the room after warps him in an underground part of the level but unglitched. I can't collect it in the room after that for some reason. The next warps link to a similar place underground unglitched. After some rooms I couldn't access, I got the instrument into the final boss room, but that warped link back to level 1 also haha. Trying to go further makes the instrument drop into some glitched water and dissapear. I'll try to incoperate this into the run somewhere, I'll test other instruments when I get to them (or earlier if bored).

Posted: 3/26/2012 7:13 AM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

It sounds like there's a lot of potential for fun here with instrument glitching. Try to open treasure chests in glitched dungeons whenever possible, for the weirdness that often occurs there. At any rate, we now know instruments can't swim : ) I think the more seashells you can have on-screen at once, the better. That's just my opinion. Are any boss rooms near enough each other that you could try to fight two bosses at once? And does boss AI glitch out in any meaningful way when you pull a boss out of and then bring him back into the same room using warps and physics glitches (similar to how the current runs double up on the Nightmare fight)?

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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:08 AM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

Bobmario511 wrote:

Regarding seashell collection, should I just glitch them over and over or find them all (or a combo)?

Finding all 26 might be nice. It certainly gives one an excuse to walk all over doing crazy things.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/27/2012 4:09 AM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

Another WIP showing what I do after getting the first 2 instruments: Link to video I'll make sure to try messing with the bosses physics and see what happens if you get 2 in the same room and stuff. I added getting 2 shells to all the pre-level 1 play (god it caused many desynchs and hexing problems). Also I'll try collecting many of them but glitch a few for variation.

Posted: 3/27/2012 5:35 AM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

Oh man. I literally laughed for a minute straight. That's perfect. I almost don't even want to watch any more WIPs now, 'cause of how much fun it'll be to watch the whole way through. Playing the drums while a lava alligator throws bananas is just... too funny.

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Posted: 3/27/2012 11:16 AM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

That was absolutely nuts. I know this game so well, seen all the TASs, and this is the first video I saw where even I was confused. Looks like we have the winner for 2012's glitchy and funny TAS right here.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/27/2012 11:57 PM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

Glad you guys like it :) It's been a ton of fun working on so far. Anyway, SonicPacker brought something to my attention that I think should be addressed, and that is how should the goals of this run be defined? It could just be something like "Beats the game while showing off glitches" but I don't know if that would be good enough for some people. So should it be defined by item/instrument collection or something? Currently I have the roc's feather, L-1 sword, rod, L-0 shield, ocarina with mambo, shovel, 20 bombs, 20 arrows, 10 magic powder, flippers, 2 shells, and levels 1, 2, 8, and 4 instruments. Based on possible goals I'll pick some route after completing level 4 as I have several options that would help getting level 3 done allowing for the honeycomb and marin.

Posted: 3/28/2012 12:25 AM

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RachelB

She/Her

Player (127)

Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579

Just call it a playaround.

Posted: 3/30/2012 5:23 AM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

Update: Finished levels 4 and 3, got the honey comb, and got Marin. Should I keep Marin? If I go right to the Walrus and glitch that out, she leaves and reduces lag (in addition from what I've tested, if you load another area or reset with bow-wow and Marin, bow-wow kind of dissapears for a bit and you just have a glitched out Marin.) or should I forget the walrus and just go on with stuff? (I can upload a short WIP showing what having Marin is like) Also at this point I got 300r and 6 shells and another thing I was thinking about is if I should get the hookshot or not. I'm not sure if there is a way to avoid the 4 skeleton fights (or have less of them) and I'm not sure if it would be too entertaining (though the hookshot is fun). I tried killing them in a glitchy tile underworld 1 and the hookshot just dissapeared after beating the final one. I will try just glitching the tiles of level 5 and see what can be done. Lastly, tried screenwarping with the raft but it wasn't too interesting.

Posted: 3/30/2012 7:06 AM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

Bobmario511 wrote:

Glad you guys like it :) It's been a ton of fun working on so far. Anyway, SonicPacker brought something to my attention that I think should be addressed, and that is how should the goals of this run be defined? It could just be something like "Beats the game while showing off glitches" but I don't know if that would be good enough for some people. So should it be defined by item/instrument collection or something?

Since it's a playaround, that's the general gist of it. If you go for a fastest method to X goal, people will do so and try to obsolete you without showing off ridiculous things in this game. That being said, I think you should come up with a couple of in game goals. Otherwise you might have some "Okay, but why did you do X and not Y?".

Bobmario511 wrote:

Update: Finished levels 4 and 3, got the honey comb, and got Marin. Should I keep Marin? If I go right to the Walrus and glitch that out, she leaves and reduces lag (in addition from what I've tested, if you load another area or reset with bow-wow and Marin, bow-wow kind of dissapears for a bit and you just have a glitched out Marin.) or should I forget the walrus and just go on with stuff? (I can upload a short WIP showing what having Marin is like)

I think it'd be cool to show her off for a bit. Complete the sign maze (before hookshot!), go wake that stupid chicken, and fly around. Go to those places where she can't get across, fly, and have her still manage to follow you.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Also at this point I got 300r and 6 shells and another thing I was thinking about is if I should get the hookshot or not.

I think you should. But defeat level 7 boss, and complete the sign maze before you do so.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/30/2012 7:49 AM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

I think hookshot will be worth getting, even if it isn't very exciting. Does screenwarping the Stalfos miniboss to the room he's normally in last change the outcome of the fight, or does he still run away until the fourth battle? Might be worth checking, though I would be surprised if it worked. And I know I mentioned it before, but Catfish's Maw stands out in my memory as a place with interesting treasure chest music/dialogue when you glitch out the dungeon. Unless Marin makes the game unplayable, the lag shouldn't be a problem. Keep her until you have the rooster, at least.

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Posted: 3/30/2012 11:43 PM

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Bobmario511

Experienced player (576)

Joined: 2/23/2008
Posts: 266
Location: CA, USA

From getting Marin I can easily do the sign maze and get the rooster thingy (it is possible to also get it in the underworld and it looks rather glitched, but I'm up for doing either). Also , I already killed the level 7 boss at this point (I decided to just kill it with bombs alone). Since the hookshot sounds good I'll play around with level 5 and see what I can get to happen.

Nach wrote:

That being said, I think you should come up with a couple of in game goals. Otherwise you might have some "Okay, but why did you do X and not Y?".

Yeah, this is what I was thinking. I'm going to get all the instruments, and I can get all the items and upgrades (I'm not sure what happens if you try upgrading the L-0 shield, but I can test). Maybe also all songs; I know I can get the wind fish ballade in either town. Do you guys have any idea on what might be good "subgoals" in this playaround based off that?

Posted: 3/31/2012 4:06 AM

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Acheron86

Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417

Technically all upgrades includes the magic powder wells for greater bomb/arrow carrying capacity, as well as heart pieces. Nothing wrong with that--might be fun to glitch out the maps when you pick those up, maybe. Might not be that entertaining... depends on how you go about it. There aren't any other goals I can think of besides 100% collection (and maybe 100% map travel?). I guess you could say "defeats all bosses" or even "defeats all minibosses" since you're going to be doing the Stalfos and that's the most time-consuming miniboss anyway.

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