I'm not too keen on 100% myself, I'm afraid things will just start getting repetitive and it also brings up what should we do about cloning items. For example I have 2 extra heart containers from beating Angler another 2 times (its a great fight honestly), I'd think just aiming for some high % might be overall more entertaining.
For the heck of it, here's a WIP showing trading the honeycomb, getting bowwow jr. Marin, and getting the frog song (I think I made 1 mistake right before trading the honey so I'll fix that asap).
Link to video
It's decently entertaining, but for some reason I have doubts about it. As a side note I'm 18:44 in at this point and I have plans for levels 6 and 7 and how to end it.
Edit: Here's one way I can glitch up learning the rooster song. If that's better than what's in my WIP than I can either skip the sign maze or complete it and just ignore the entrence and use a nearby cave to get to here.
I think I prefer the glitched-up rooster song, myself.
Looks pretty good, overall. Bow-wow got to snack on some Trendy Game owner, so I guess someone will be calling animal control soon. I also like the friendly Moblin.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
This was great.
For other objectives, trade L2 shielf for Boomerrang. Show off all the things you do with the shovel.
Marin's digging.
Running in place.
For fights.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
After what was shown in my WIP, I decided to keep the sign maze in and then glitch to Mamu. There were several reasons behind this including showing off the maze, showing off bow-wow and Marin out (since bow-wow dissapears for a while when you load or reset), and I got the glitched up Mamu (might want to put a warning if watched with full frames or on emu....very crazy...).
As for after that I got the "Hibiscus", the hookshot (in a very glitchy way), defeated the level 5 boss and got the instrument. I have 7 shells at this point and I'm still planning on what to do.
Here are my scattered ideas left for what I should do in this run (in no real order after finishing level 7):
-Do a odd trick to get the L-1 Shield back
-go to level 7 in someway and get the shield
-Fight the mini-boss and have it yell at link
-Complete level 7 then get rooster so it stays
-Walrus scene to get rid of marin and only have rooster/bow-wow
-Find some way to glitch level 6
-Find 13 more shells
-Finish the trading quest
-Trade L-2 shield for boomerrang
-Get L-2 sword
-Either doghouse with 2 kills into underworld 2 or fisherman warp into underworld 2 and then do something creative with the last boss.
I made sure to open at least 4 chests where odd text and music appears, I have 10 hearts at this point, 1 rupee (I can add like 3 or 4 more frames to getting the 200r chest which I reset early in.) or just get them while shell hunting for the fisherman. From the testing I've done you can't change screens while you are flying with the rooster which is lame. Also I played around with the shovel a bit when killing the level 7 boss, but I can show it off more and get Marin to do her thing when you dig. Magic powder is the only item I haven't used yet so I'll try to find a nice way to add that.
Regarding bosses and mini-bosses, I'll just kill certain ones since I already killed angler 3 times and some are more interesting than others (for instance level 7 boss vs level 1).
Did I miss any tricks that would be worth including?
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Use the flamethrower on level 7 miniboss, you should be able to kill all the bats in a single volley, it's funny.
Find places where you can pick up something with a graphic glitch? Make it look like you're throwing people around?
Don't forget to show off rooster+bow wow+boomerang on a busy enemy screen.
Edit:
Although it's well known, show off bomb arrows.
Edit 2:
I'm pretty sure I said this already, but don't forget shovel vs. agahnim.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
A single volley of fire or their first wave? I was able to to do the latter easily. I'm not sure if it's possible since the bats are immune while they are waiting in the air.
I'll test to see if I can pick anything up while in a glitched zone, that would be pretty awesome. I tried it on various objects using the 2 kill doghouse method but couldnt find anything. I've used about 4 bomb arrows but looking out for more places.
Lastly, from what I've planned now, it appears that I get the ghost after I complete level 7 the way I do...no idea why though...hello lag when the rooster appears. If the last 8 shells I need to get are near the ghost places I'll likely drop it off. We'll see.
Edit: Sometime after level 7 when I dismiss Marin should I get the wind fish ballad? This would mean I would have all item upgrades (besides those designed to hold more items).
Edit 2: Here might be an interesting way I though of to defeat the boss instead. Actually shows off magic powder for the first time this run. Very unoptimized here ofcourse.
Link to video
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bobmario511 wrote:
A single volley of fire or their first wave?
Definitely the first wave.
I remember being able to get one on fire, and then have the other catch fire, although the powder here looks rather funny.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Lastly, from what I've planned now, it appears that I get the ghost after I complete level 7 the way I do...no idea why though...
The ghost appears after you beat 4 dungeons. Is this the fourth dungeon you beat?
Bobmario511 wrote:
hello lag when the rooster appears. If the last 8 shells I need to get are near the ghost places I'll likely drop it off. We'll see.
Well, there is one right where you drop it off.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Edit: Sometime after level 7 when I dismiss Marin should I get the wind fish ballad? This would mean I would have all item upgrades (besides those designed to hold more items).
Yes!
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Getting close to done, final time will be somewhere between 39-45 minutes. I looked into the double shovel glitch, but it doesn't seem worth it since a lot would need to be redone, plus I'd have to get the bow really late in the game. Regarding what else I can trade for the boomerrang, it seems he only takes items that can never be upgraded (roc's feather, boots, hookshot, shovel, rod), so which should I trade for it? I'm keeping the boots for sure and likely the feather. All thats left really is playing around with the boomerrang and rooster, then the final boss so I'm okay with getting rid of either the hookshot or rod (I've shown off the rod more than the hookshot if that matters).
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bobmario511 wrote:
it seems he only takes items that can never be upgraded (roc's feather, boots, hookshot, shovel, rod)
I find this to be weird. On my actual Gameboy, I traded the magic powder. Unless I somehow glitched out my game, I'm thinking perhaps there's some in game triggers which determine what you're allowed to trade. Maybe it matters if you got magic powder by starting with the mushroom, or one of the other techniques?
I'd like to see the final boss fought well, I think dump whichever can't be used against him (except shovel, since that's funny).
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Done.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Yeah whatever controlls what items you can trade in is strange. I only have 1 more question which is how should I play with agahnim, like just try to dig him up, or is there a way to reflect his attacks with the shovel? Got everything else planned besides that.
Edit:
Link to video
Stealing from the shopkeeper isn't a good idea, he will get you o.O
Probably not including this because of the death, but if you guys think it's worth it for a laugh I can. I'll mess around with it for sure (haven't been able to escape without dying yet...). I could possibly include it by resetting before dying, I was able to freeze the game while messing around with it.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bobmario511 wrote:
Yeah whatever controlls what items you can trade in is strange. I only have 1 more question which is how should I play with agahnim, like just try to dig him up, or is there a way to reflect his attacks with the shovel? Got everything else planned besides that.
The shovel reflects his attack quite well.
Bobmario511 wrote:
haven't been able to escape without dying yet...
Mambo's mambo not an option?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
The games physics get increadibly screwed up when you first enter the shop. Basically it normally forces link to go up a little where the shopkeeper fries him, but in this case, he just keeps on going up and building speed each time he passes through the store again. During this whole process the only input I can actually get to do anything with is the directional input during screen transitions (like holding v forces link to exit that cycle and get shocked earlier, while holding >^ allows him to do what was in that video) and the emulators reset button.
Probably worth mentioning that the tiles all had their normal properties; I reset after first using the fisherman trick (initially so I could fight the nightmare boss since I don't think its even possible to hurt the agahnim form while there are glitched tiles). I'll see what happens with glitched tiles.
Also I've only had luck reflecting the attack agahinm sometimes uses after taking 2 hits.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Now that I think about it, it could be related to the color tunic trick or something, but I haven't had any luck replicating that.
On another note, I'm pretty close to done with the GB glitched any% run and I've started a LADX glitched any% run and found a few very small improvements so far.
Edit: The randomness I've encountered in the LADX run I've started is painful. I found a way to save 7 frames over what I've completed, only to slowly loose it to screen transitions, then save like 3 frames due to really lucky enemy manipulation, then loose that to screen transitions, then end up having an overall slower time due to the tiles in the glitched underworld having slightly different behavior for some odd reason. Whatever I guess, the improvement is going nicely besides that.
I think I'm starting to get an idea why frames just dissapeared, and I think it has to do with subpixels. Walking is 16 sp/f in one direction and diagonally walking is 12 sp/f in both directions, but shield boosting can be a max of 18 sp/f in both directions, and damage taken/sword boost can max out at 20 sp/f in both directions. While improving the Bow-Wow slash, I used two boosts that pushed link 20 sp/f for a total of 34 frames. Based on his coord, it was optimal to boost at 20 sp/f on the x axis but move at 3 sp/f on the y. Since Link is boosted for 17 frames, this will make the distance traveled be 51 subpixels. Since 51 can never me a multiple of 16 (I'm assuming 16 subpixels is a pixel in this game) there will often be some error or something resulting in frames lost. Hopefully this is correct as saving some frames will be a lot easier knowing this.
Finished the glitched runs for both the GB and GBC versions and will submit soon. In the meantime I've been working on seeing if I can improve the warpless run. So far I've saved around 200 frames up until right before entering level 2.
With that being said, I am having problems actually entering level 2. Does anyone know how to manipulate bow-wow so he eats the Flower blocking the entrance to level 2 so he does it as soon as you enter? I've tried a handful of stuff that usually helps manipulation like sword slashes, waiting frames, etc, but I've only got it to work when waiting for over 30 frames and having random input during that time.
Advice or help with this would be appreciated!
Edit: forgot to add the .vbm Here's the WIP (uses vba 23.5).
This is my first post on these forums. Hello everyone.
I'm interested in starting a TAS of LADX. I was wondering if anyone besides Tompa is still actively interested in this project too. I have watched Swordless Link's TAS and have made a short list of where to save time.
1.) Rolling Bones quick kill
2.) Genie quick kill
3.) Villa Skip
4.) Defeating only 1 Dodongo in Slime Cave
5.) Potential Frog Song skip
6.) Evil Eagle quick kill
7.) DethI quick kill
I'm sure there are a few more that I'll find as I'm working on this. I discussed the Frog Song Skip with Tompa and have agreed that I'll include it in my run. Tompa also mentioned he was kinda working on this run too, with a rule of his own:
"I will not walk to a screen if that screen wouldn't normally be there on the map"
This prevents the use of clipping into a ceiling on a cave and exiting to a different cave. To start off I will be using this rule as well, but I might change it later depending on how I feel about it and how others feel about it too.
Now that that is out of the way, is there interest in this from others? I realize this thread hasn't been active lately so this is just a shot into the dark. I'd love to hear more ideas and input from others. Thanks for reading and I hope I'll enjoy my stay here for the time being.
I still have a bit of interest in the run without the doghouse trick. I was working on it intensely a while back, but dropped it due to frustration. I'd happily contribute to this run now that it's been a while. I also agree that no "screen glitching" should be banned since there are such a wide variety of ways to do this (hookshot clipping, jumping places to clip, boot dashing places, etc). The way Tompa put it works as a good rule, in addition to no wrong warping/screen warping.
Another improvement I've been wondering about is if it's possible to glitch Taron (or other cutscenes for that matter) using a method similar to 15:11 in the playaround. I tried it early on but had no luck, however, since you apparently don't have to return Bow wow it might be possible.
edit:
reading back it looks like I never posted an encode for the run I started, so here's that
Link to video
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
4. It's faster to kill both of them.
5. The TAS already skips the Frog Song.
6. This boss fight is skipped.
Also:
8. Plan a PoP route.
9. Better use of the up+down/left+right glitches.
10. Better RNG.
11. Lots of other minor tricks and optimisations.
I surely would love to keep TASing this game eventually. I just have focused on SMB3 recently. But there is a lot to improve in this run afterall. I wouldn't mind working together with someone either.
Alright, thanks Tompa for clearing some things up and for providing additional improvements to be made. It's been awhile honestly since I watched the full TAS so a few of those things weren't in my memory at all.
I also feel like you'll be my go-to guy for help on this since I'm completely new to TAS'ing.
Also about RNG in this game. Is there any documentation or something that explains how it works in this game. Leafeonz told me in the IRC that it is based off of your inputs, but I have no idea how that correlates to RNG manipulation in a run like this.
@Bobmario511
Are you talking about how he screen transitioned while Tarin received the stick to skip the text? That would be useful if possible, I'll add it to my list of potential improvements.
