Spikestuff
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LazyKenny wrote:
It's actually possible to grab Seadoph and hit Pamela in the same jump, meaning you don't have to wait for her to jump again to hit her. The WIP can be improved a lot because this is one of those games where jumping is faster than walking (but not faster than running down hills obviously) but only if you start bunnyhopping at a precise frame while Klonoa accelerates. This little act of framewhoring turns Klonoa from a simple game to TAS to nightmarish to optimize. Take a close look at his movement speed in the memory viewer and try jumping on certain frames while accelerating to see what I mean.
I know I was told on youtube and changed it I forgot to edit my post saying that I fixed the boss fight, wait what am I on about I already changed that fight and posted it already. Oh btw before you write it's slow I know I already fixed that you will see the fight when I finish Vision 3. and NO jumping (and Bunny hopping) is SLOWER than Running I tested it in Vision 1-1 when I piked up the game I cannot remember how much time I saved but it was alot.
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Guga
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ffs, please use commas and periods in your posts. They are really hard to read without them.
Spikestuff
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Guga wrote:
ffs, please use commas and periods in your posts. They are really hard to read without them.
Spikestuff wrote:
fixed the boss fight, wait what am I on about I already changed that fight and posted it already.
Yea Guga, I already thought about you.
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Spikestuff
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Okay if you don't look at WIP area Here's the last thing I did. If you don't want to go there: Link to video Enjoy the encode.
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Sir_VG
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Overall, very impressive start. A couple things I noticed in Vision 2-2: 1. At about 7:14 in the encode, you throw one red enemy into a 2nd, then grab the yellow shielded one to boost up. Wouldn't it be better to throw the first away, grab the 2nd and then not have to turn around to get the yellow enemy? 2. Do the streams not carry your momentum when you jump off of them? I know they give a HUGE momentum boost in the Wii version when you get off of them if you jump and hold left - your forward speed keeps until you land on solid ground, so long as you're holding left.
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Spikestuff
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Sir VG wrote:
Overall, very impressive start. A couple things I noticed in Vision 2-2: 1. At about 7:14 in the encode, you throw one red enemy into a 2nd, then grab the yellow shielded one to boost up. Wouldn't it be better to throw the first away, grab the 2nd and then not have to turn around to get the yellow enemy? 2. Do the streams not carry your momentum when you jump off of them? I know they give a HUGE momentum boost in the Wii version when you get off of them if you jump and hold left - your forward speed keeps until you land on solid ground, so long as you're holding left.
Thanks :D Answers: 1. Yeah, I will change that part, I'll check if I have clearance and to pass the first one if not I'll grab it and throw it on the thing the 2nd one is standing on to make it easier. 2. Sadly no, I know what you're talking about since I too have the Wii version but no momentum can be added on the PS1 :(
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Post subject: Update is magic
Spikestuff
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nice little update. Changed the Fight and avoid false damage abuse and other things. Also I did that damage deliberately as a random thing since majority of the tas will have damages in it. Link to video
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Post subject: Gelg Bolm (Vision 3-2 boss)
Spikestuff
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Gelg Bolm, has something interesting in it. If you collect Moo* too early and hit Gelg quickly the opposite Moo will not go in contrast of delaying for a bit (letting Moo hitting the ground, grabbing it then hitting Gelg will allow the other Moo to go.... *Moos like a cow*). Because of the change it's possible to beat this boss in under a minute if optimized to perfection (I got 1 min dead, with 2 "hiccups" at the end, easy to fix). At hits 3 and 4 (when Gelg is in the air at first) grab a Moo from either left or right side and walk to the center. Depending on the side the non carried Moo is be on the same side allow Gelg to drop and hit it you'll realize Gelg goes to the opposite side you through which gives you full access to reach the other Moo before "Jumping off the cliff". The final form (after hit 4) make sure a Moo has come down, grab it, allow the big ball to inflate and jump on it, a worthy damage abuse to use as if you didn't use it Moo would've gone and you'd have to wait for another. This allows an earlier hit on Gelg as well as you're not waiting around. The Wii version is different and I'm not going to explain unless someone asks. *This is Moo
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Post subject: Re: Gelg Bolm (Vision 3-2 boss)
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Spikestuff wrote:
Gelg Bolm, has something interesting in it. If you collect Moo* too early and hit Gelg quickly the opposite Moo will not go in contrast of delaying for a bit (letting Moo hitting the ground, grabbing it then hitting Gelg will allow the other Moo to go.... *Moos like a cow*). Because of the change it's possible to beat this boss in under a minute if optimized to perfection (I got 1 min dead, with 2 "hiccups" at the end, easy to fix). At hits 3 and 4 (when Gelg is in the air at first) grab a Moo from either left or right side and walk to the center. Depending on the side the non carried Moo is be on the same side allow Gelg to drop and hit it you'll realize Gelg goes to the opposite side you through which gives you full access to reach the other Moo before "Jumping off the cliff". The final form (after hit 4) make sure a Moo has come down, grab it, allow the big ball to inflate and jump on it, a worthy damage abuse to use as if you didn't use it Moo would've gone and you'd have to wait for another. This allows an earlier hit on Gelg as well as you're not waiting around. The Wii version is different and I'm not going to explain unless someone asks. *This is Moo
Neat find. And no need to really discuss the Wii version since you're talking about the PSX version; But hey I wouldn't mind seeing a Wii version TAS either :D
Spikestuff
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Torn338 wrote:
Neat find. And no need to really discuss the Wii version since you're talking about the PSX version; But hey I wouldn't mind seeing a Wii version TAS either :D
After doing the ps1 version I will take a break then come back to do a 100% of the Wii version. Hopefully by that time Dolphin doesn't desync much with Wii and it will have wii tas input
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Post subject: I need help (Big time) also Quite a bit happened
Spikestuff
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I guess it's a great time to bring back the Klonoa thread and if you do read the title that is 100% correct, let me explain first on what is going on. Right now I'm uploading 5 videos, 4 levels and 1 boss and showing the improvements that were made, yes that means I have restarted (It took 6 hours to make up ground and I was stuck at 2-1 the longest). I found out I was slower when I was mucking around with pcsx-rr (surprisingly the audio does not go whacky with tas sound so it's a perfect game for the not so perfect emulator (plus that painful frame advancing)(Also no internet for quite sometime got me bored) I was curious on what happens if you jump at the latest possible time and I quickly found out that only works for V 1-1 and the rest is forced random. Klonoa walks faster than jumps and I wanted minimal jumps and keep a constant speed going.... I derailed a little.... Uh, so, yeah, I mucked around and got psxjin running again and restarted the whole thing and so far 5 seconds ahead (not rounding milliseconds up). The restart has now costed me it places me (when comparing) 3 seconds behind after being ahead 5 (so I lost 8 in total) due to the second boss fight, I need help and what is needed is the perfect combination for that fight. All I am getting is Flying, Bubbles, Flying (Barrel Roll) and Flying the Bubbles stall the time and to let you know what the correct one is it's 3 flying and then a jump/flying (4 Flying is epic luck). If you do try and help me (By downloading the file and just adding the correct manipulation) letting you know now DON'T HIT START the frame before the lag frame it actually cost time as you have to wait longer. Oh I also encounter a quite interesting glitch in vision 2-1 I'll point it out in the video and explain it in that. So yes I need massive manipulation help with what combination is needed (hitting late doesn't work it just stalls time and you get the same stuff). The updated tas file is here (The last update still exists too) The levels being compared is here (only 1-1 to 2-1 I need to upload 2-2 and also annotate all of them) (I have it as a playlist so you can select what you want to see.) If you're watching the video vision 2-2 is changed at the end but basically same time just 3 extra frames added to it, it is updated in the .pjm file. I'm going to wait for help in the meantime I am going to continue on working on Salary Man “2 player”, I am close to finishing that after that I'll be hard on finishing my final year at school but I will still be waiting for the help and going to finish that fight.
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Post subject: Prof that boss manipulation exists
Spikestuff
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This is what happens when I change 1 button press to save one frame from the start. (Boss 1 changed from a lot of luck to the rainbow spin) Frames = 1260 - 1279 Last version
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Frames = 1260 - 1279 Newer version (One frame not so much saver)
.X............||0|
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.X............||0|
The slightest change in button pressing will screw you up at a later point in the game... I will use the one frame saver on the 100% because I will have more time to manipulate the level as a go and save people. Edit: I should mention this, in 1-1 the 4th last enemy you can bypass by slipping through a tiny gap... it saves about 5-7 frames but it manipulates the 1st boss against what I need.
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Post subject: Extra Vision
Spikestuff
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WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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Sir_VG
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I take it that this shortcut doesn't work on the PSX version or is slower?
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Spikestuff
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Sir VG wrote:
I take it that this shortcut doesn't work on the PSX version or is slower?
"In the Wiimake version everything is bigger and Klonoa jumps a little higher (and Klonoa moves bit faster too & in addition has more health) you can complete the Extra Vision in 1'38"97 *cough* Sonicpacker *cough* as you can skip a-few things." Yea... which is quite upsetting, I will keep attempting it when I can. Also I wasn't joking in the description saying it was beatable. EDIT: I MOTHER CAKE-EN GOT IT! The route is more different for it, you jump to the bottom one and rise up from there, not from the middle one.
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Post subject: Thus, this is as fast as I will go...
Spikestuff
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Rerecords: 2663... also a shit ton of editing my work with Notepad++ to get a better run in some areas (e.g. 1:20 (re-watched it was slow fixed and got desync XD so I took time fixing this) and 1:45 (done half blind and it was surprisingly faster). Link to video Also this: Link to video
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Spikestuff
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Update: Well klonoa has been fun over the whole year finding out that everything needs to be fixed after getting to 4-2 and then getting to 2-2 and having to figure out to get a perfect boss fight, then finding out I HAD DESYNC AT RONGO... I am giving up for now. Whoever wants to pick up any% go for it. If you want to compare to me KEEP THIS IN MIND When you are tassing and you are complete and submit it, I will look for the weak level and compare against it and if this is the case I will be voting Meh and proving it. GOOD LUCK >:)
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Post subject: Joka battle
Spikestuff
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This isn't 100% perfect (at one point I get myself stuck for about a second) but trying to get Joka's cycles was. Link to video I have to go through him twice as no rng (unless enemies) are done as it's a strict pattern 3 hits, change, 3 hits, change, 2 hits, die.
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Post subject: Stumbling around at the speed of-
Spikestuff
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Link to video This is a complete any% run. There is a few issues I can pin point. The run was done well...
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Sir_VG
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Good work. I did notice a few things I'm gonna question. 1. Why did you rescue anybody? While some were just "there", you did go out of your way to rescue some. Between that and the time it takes to play the melody on the world map, that costs time. 2. The Nahatomb fight had some noticeable errors in it. In the first phase, the location of where the monsters drop after spouting is dependent on yours. You could position yourself better so it drops in front of the cannon. In the 3rd phase, position determines the location of the warped in enemy. So you probably ran around a lot more than you needed to. Also, if you can hit the one that's running around, you can use him to drop into the cannon, which gives time for the warped in enemy to appear while you're working on that. There's a few other spots I remember seeing, but those were the two major ones that stuck out in my mind.
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In fact there are a lot of obvious improvements in the two full TAS you can find on internet (here is the second one), but as I started one myself some weeks ago, I can tell you that it is far harder than it looks to make an optimize TAS of this game, as bunny hopping is faster than running if well done (around 1,4% faster). I am currently around 100s faster than the youtube run after Vision 4-1.