Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I suddenly realized something. Have you noticed how in most JRPGs when you travel on the overworld, if you traverse out of the world map from the left edge you appear on the right edge, and likewise if you traverse out of the upper edge you appear on the lower edge? Thus the world is just one contiguous surface, like Earth, really. If you don't think too much about it, it makes perfect sense and is logical. But stop a minute to actually think about it. Consider Earth's world map, eg: If you traverse out of the left edge, you just continue on the right edge. They are connected. So this is ok. However, what happens when you traverse out of the upper edge? Certainly you don't suddenly appear on the lower edge! The upper and lower edges are not connected! (Instead, you appear on the upper edge again, just on a different place.) So how exactly does this work with JRPG world maps? You can't connect both edges like it was a contiguous surface like that. At least not if you are trying to depict the spherical surface of a planet. The only possible explanation is that the planet has actually the shape of a torus. The only way a rectangular area can have both opposing edges connected is if it represents the surface of a toroidal shape. Thus the planets in most JRPGs are toroidal. Of course this raises the question how such a planet can possibly form.
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
The world is square.
Joined: 6/7/2008
Posts: 123
Location: Portugal
Oh lord... My head a-splode. I never realized that, in a world map, crossing the top edge wouldn't get you to the bottom one. Or I just never thought about it. Though I have to say that, atm, I can't recall any JRPG that works like that.
I'm Espyo from the SRB2 Forums. Current project: A Pikmin fan engine, Pikifen
Editor, Skilled player (1405)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2086
Ultimately, you can't really talk a lot of sense into video games. JRPGs are no expection, so why bother?
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Espyo wrote:
Though I have to say that, atm, I can't recall any JRPG that works like that.
Most Dragon Warrior games are examples.
HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
*cough*Final Fantasy*cough*
Post subject: Fridge logic
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
There might be some for whom the topmost thought on mind is not "wow, I never thought of that", but rather, "fridge logic??". So here you go, spend the next 50 hours browsing TVTropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic
arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
I first got suckered in by the "Fake Difficulty" article in the description for one of the runs. Anyway you could make the maps more realistic by having all users who walk up the top of the map end up walking down from the top of the map, halfway around it, like this:
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
Editor, Skilled player (1405)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2086
arflech wrote:
I first got suckered in by the "Fake Difficulty" article in the description for one of the runs.
Super Mario Bros 2j Allstars by any chance? Still, video games aren't the most accurate when it comes to the laws of physics. Or geography. Or any laws, so, if there are games where italian plumbers can jump multiple times their own height in a surreal landscape made up of mushrooms and bricks, what is the big deal with wrap-around JRPG maps?
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4141)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
I recall having read about that before, on TVTropes. A logical (or not so logical) explanation would be that the world is donut-shaped.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
Mothrayas wrote:
I recall having read about that before, on TVTropes. A logical (or not so logical) explanation would be that the world is donut-shaped.
Exactly, a torus, like the OP said.
Skilled player (1405)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
This is especially obvious in Terranigma, where the overworld is based on our own globe. Travel north of Russia, you end up in Antarctica.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Never thought about that lol.
arflech wrote:
I first got suckered in by the "Fake Difficulty" article in the description for one of the runs. Anyway you could make the maps more realistic by having all users who walk up the top of the map end up walking down from the top of the map, halfway around it, like this: img
Or just have a separate area for the north/south pole so that you go there when you reach the top/bottom of the world map. Then you can choose where you spawn back depending on what direction you leave this area. Or use two world maps, one each for a half of the world.
Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 64
Location: Kajaani, Finland
who cares? not me. [/ot]
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Mothrayas wrote:
I recall having read about that before, on TVTropes. A logical (or not so logical) explanation would be that the world is donut-shaped.
Indeed. This effect would be generated by rectangular projection from a torus.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
It's easier to make the world roll over mathematically then actually have it make sense in a literal term. Therefor, an RPGs world map is more mathematically realistic than real life. Edit: I really shouldn't make posts when I am still waking up
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Flygon... you have no idea what you're talking about there. Easiness and realism have nothing to do with each other. Especially in math.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
So, can anyone think of a 2D game that has a freeranging world that is not toroidal? By "freeranging" I mean you need to be able to travel to most anyplace on the map in some fashion.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Secret of Mana?
Previous Name: boct1584
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I'll admit I haven't played the game much (much as everyone seems to think it's the greatest thing since chocolate pancakes, I couldn't get interested), but doesn't Secret of Mana lack an "overworld"? That is, it's a sequence of connected zones, with a few shortcuts between them. I should have clarified in my prior post that I wasn't talking about such a setup. Seiken Densetsu 3 (SoM's sequel) does have an overworld that you can explore freely, and it is also toroidal.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
It has an airship/dragon thing you can ride.
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Antoids wrote:
It has an airship/dragon thing you can ride.
I'm fairly sure you just described the vast majority of JRPGs.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
And when you ride that airship/dragon, what happens when you go off the north end of the map?
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Former player
Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460
I've only played like old SNES games the last few years, but I guess it's hard to make the map look like a globe with that kind of technology, hence you'll have to imagine the world on the map being round and all edges connecting in some kind of twisted way instead. Like papier-maché on a balloon. (And extensive cutting.) I probably missed the point by a mile though. (The center of the map is one pole and the edges are another, do I win?)
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
Derakon wrote:
And when you ride that airship/dragon, what happens when you go off the north end of the map?
Oh, wait, I'm sorry, I thought you said it DOESN'T have an overworld. My bad.