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Playaround can't go to Vault.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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We learned about it from the manual.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The concept of "objective goal" is actually already used on the site, in branch labeling.
Publisher Guidelines wrote:
The point of branches is to highlight specific goals that runs may conform to. These goals are highlighted, because they introduce gameplay differences into TASes that are significant enough to be published as separate branches. Two kinds of goals exist:
Internal condition - something the game directly and unambiguously offers as an optional component of play which significantly affects what is seen from the game (warp usage, player amount, character choice).
External condition - something the players limit themselves to (exact completion percent, pacifist, certain glitch set).
In this post by Warp, those 2 concepts are called "goals" and "restrictions".
The proposal I had in mind is that we have more branches allowed for Vault (or whatever it ends up becoming) based on objective/internal goals, and then all the subjective/external restrictions intended for Moons would need to be entertaining to be published.
The good thing about objective/internal goals is that they have objective limit for every game. It's not like allowing them all would automatically mean that we need to accept infinite amount of arbitrarily esoteric branches.
Sure the number could be really high if there's a variety of options and their types, which leads to insanely high number of all possible permutations for compound goals. For example, all characters and their combinations for 1P, 2P, 3P, 4P, warps, warpless, hard, normal, easy, etc - that would be crazy to allow it all.
Yet, as long as it's not limited to just "fastest combination of all options" (the thing we call any%), it may become a nightmare to determine the borderline of acceptability. The borderline when "now it's actually too many branches".
"Too restrictive" is what we have now. It's painful to handle in way too many situations, and limits TASers in creativity. It depends on whatever the current judges agreed about, which may change over time and with different judges.
"Too loose" on the other hand results in indefinite amount of branches, even if it's tied to something objective. It may disappoint people because they feel it doesn't "make sense" to publish that many.
So maybe instead of defining hard rules for fine borderlines, we should instead come up with generalized guidelines for blurred borderlines? After all, the actual borderline between clear record and entertaining side goal is never this
but something closer to this
For the extremes, if it's a super clear record, we don't need it to be entertaining (game end glitch), and if it's super entertaining, we don't care about its record value (playarounds). But in the middle, there's some overlap of uncertainty (dunno how to draw it), when we're not sure about acceptace on either ground. And those are the worst to deal with. Which kinda means, if we invent a way to handle this middle ground gracefully, the system will be more satisfying and robust.
Indeed it looks like we just want to go back to pre-tier system, because those aren't even layers anymore, just 2 separate entities that sometimes have overlap. But what we need to adjust compared to old TASVideos is lowering the entertainment cutoff and increasing the branch count cap.
This is probably a nice reason to try switching from global and absolute rules to per-game rules? Per-game rules decided by judges and the TASers and the audience? Per-game rules that would reflect what makes sense for a given game?
At this point it's obvious that we can't come up with rules that work for all games. I've been doing this for years, together with admins and judges, and there's some progress. But it's at the cost of Movie Rules constantly expanding, making it impossible to remember them all for judges and to comprehend them all for TASers. And it gets gradually harder to adjust, because by becoming more complex, the system becomes more fragile. More aspects have to be considered every time, more mental resources are required to wrap your head around it. And finding the right balance between technicality and entertainment also becomes more difficult as fundamentally new situations pop up. And we can never be sure we have enough outlook and expertise to handle everything in a future-proof way.
So I'm starting to think that asking ourselves "What should be fine to accept?" is a question impossible to answer in a satisfiable way. And making rules out of it won't ever be an enjoyable endeavor.
Coming up with generalized guidelines based on "What we all agree we should keep rejecting?" is a much more helpful solution, that could then be applied on a per-game basis depending on what a given game has to offer.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I did some work studying the RNG of this game and how it affected the pipe room wait.
[...]
tl;dr the shortest wait possible is 2617, which this TAS happens to get. It is not possible to my knowledge to shorten the wait.
Awesome job!
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I am curious if anyone else feels positive towards this movie, or the reasons otherwise, and if it should belong in the Vault like the currently published movie.
I wasn't entertained, because platforming is slow paced and feels basic. There's nothing surprising in it if you just watch. Voted No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Wow this was brilliant! So many new techniques, obviously much tougher optimization, intense weapon usage makes this feel daring and aggressive. Running away from bosses was my favorite! Voted Yes.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I believe the other save glitch TASes (which are essentially game end glitch TASes) (and maybe the Coin Case TAS too for consistency?) should have their branches renamed to "game end glitch", with the non-geg save glitch TASes staying as "save glitch".
While I agree that branch label wording is not obviously clear in this case, "X glitch" always means major skip glitch, and when save corruption is the primary technique used for it, there's no easy way to define the difference between two movies that use save-corruption-major-skip-glitch.
It's non-trivial to understand the difference between those two and also ACE usage even if you know Pokemon games decently well in terms of gameplay. I'm still unsure if this movie skips the final boss or not, and I haven't asked because I was busy trying to understand all the other aspects. If you have to be a Pokemon expert and a code expert to understand the difference, then technicality shadows entertainment.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Does it still corrupt RAM?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Almost as annoying to see and hear as the any% branch, barring the death abuse. Voting No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Wow I didn't remember how bad this game felt. Sound effects and music are constantly out of tune, 20fps movement makes constant scrolling painful to watch, gameplay is really basic aside from some later levels, repeated dying is anti-climactic. If this is what technically impressive A2600 games look like, I think that console didn't age well at all. Voted No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Indeed, a whole bunch of discussion is happening on Discord lately. But I feel we're not advertising it well enough in the Guidelines. I'll add the link now. Added.
Also if it was an actual WIP movie, ideally uploaded to userfiles and linked somewhere on the forum/wiki, it'd be a significant flaw to miss that and lose time to it. For a chat-only glitch demo, I think it's understandable to miss.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I can say that CasualPokePlayer's assessment looks correct regarding not reaching the game end, which it has.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Not sure. The routing is better except for the second-to-last level which is a few frames longer in this movie. So I tried to randomly tweak inputs and improved it by 29 frames by the start of the cutscene:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/72095754353028060
Midlevel crap turned 7-frame improvement on level 1 into 2-frame:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/72095741720032955
Some level in the middle is 18 frames shorter:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/72095753184632048
While I see that midlevel stuff advances at random pace depending on random input, I still improved 3 out of 3 that I tried to randomly tweak. I kinda suspect every level is like this.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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A peaceful resolution is possible if both parties are ready to discuss the problem, present their vision of it, accept each others' vision of it, and see what's still common and more important than sticking to their own visions. You can't resolve a conflict without some kind of a compromise. And you can't come to a compromise that would satisfy both sides without having a genuine discussion.
We tried to turn this into a productive discussion several times. We explained our motives, we admitted what we could have done wrong, we presented our values, we cared. But if the same doesn't come from the other side, there's no way to solve this.
It's not about us fighting back. It's about finding something more important than fighting. I think when you moderate a community, you need to know how to de-escalate problematic situations. If you don't, then you get constant fights among users.
And for people who don't want to participate in any fights, there's still a possibility that someone attacks their work or their character. We do not want them to be on their own in such situations. We also don't want to take sides. We want to be wise, and we want people to be wise. A wrote a page about this:
http://tasvideos.org/Feos/SoftSkills.htmlneo_omegon wrote:
As the New Testament says, "Whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Why don't you practice?
Not everyone on this site is into the New Testament, and they don't have to be! We don't want to preach some values by asking people to act in a certain way. We want to preach values by showing how they practically solve problems and remain relevant in the modern day.
My personal values are not out of tradition or conservatism. My personal values are meant to make people happier than they were. That requires understanding what they are coming from, regardless of their values. If I can be helpful to them regardless of their political views, religion, tastes, etc, then my values are met. Does this instantly boil down to a certain religion or political views? Do I look like a traditional democrat, republican, jew, buddhist, atheist, christian, marxist, liberal, libertarian? I don't have to!
This is important because creativity requires certain conditions. Inspiration requires a certain mood. If we can't help people keep that mood, we're a bad place for creativity and inspiration. I have another page on the matter:
http://tasvideos.org/TasingGuide/TASArt.html
If our users are getting bullied, they can't focus on creating art. And xipo did attack tasers. We don't want tasers to fight. We want them to co-operate. But we don't want them to force themselves to co-operate with someone they don't enjoy working with. If joy of friendly co-operation is not there anymore, and joy of friendly competition is not there anymore either, there's no more joy to have in tasing.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's even v87 currently.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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naruko, you probably have BBCode disabled in your forum profile, or just in the above post. To make forum tags (like "quote") work, you need to enable it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Personman wrote:
I would like to cast my vote for publishing the "shortest input" version of this run. That's always been more interesting to me than drawing a fairly arbitrary line about which point in time counts as reaching the ending. Watching an ending play out by itself also adds a unique and pleasant flavor, especially when the input endpoint is displayed in the encode.
The exact point when we consider the ending has occurred may indeed feel arbitrary. But if the basic ending routine doesn't change, every run that reaches it can be clearly and unambiguosly compared to another.
Another important aspect:
You can potentially delay the ending indefinitely with your shorter input. We wouldn't want t to watch a 10-second movie that makes the game end 10 hours later.
But you can't indefinitely speed it up in your ending-based movie. There's only so much you can do to end the game faster, and it gradually gets harder and harder to come up with new timesaves. You can't make it happen instantly.
And you can't indefinitely delay movie end to make the game end faster. After some point it becomes unnecessary.
So in terms of obsoletion criterion, ending-based movie is clear cut.
I think for this game, judging movie optimality by when the game ends is a better idea.
Jigwally, does this game have any kind of consistent in-game timer, even if it's just in memory and not displayed anywhere?
FractalFusion wrote:
Video (with music ON)
While the no-music version is not particularly enjoyable in terms of audio, I didn't feel like music improves the experience. It's hard to really hear it behind the constant sound effects, and it's not even that great imo.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If we keep calling memory-corrupted full completion legitimate full completion, the full completion definition becomes moot with every newly discovered more powerful memory corruption technique, that would potentially gradually reduce the category to just hacking the full completion metric directly. So clarity of the goal blurs.
It may or may not remain entertaining. But I don't know accepted examples of hacking the main metric of a category to appear true in terms of formal statistics, but not intended in-game mechanics. Even for entertaining non-full-completion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If you're skilled in TASing and you enjoy working patiently, staying focused, and being helpful to others, you might be interested in becoming a TASVideos Judge!
Here's a post that talks about our requirements in details:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/21833
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It very much resembles the memory manipulation for crystals in the original trilogy of the crash bandicoot games, which have a few tases with this kind of manipulation already.
Can you provide more details on this instead?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
but something closer to this
For the extremes, if it's a super clear record, we don't need it to be entertaining (game end glitch), and if it's super entertaining, we don't care about its record value (playarounds). But in the middle, there's some overlap of uncertainty (dunno how to draw it), when we're not sure about acceptace on either ground. And those are the worst to deal with. Which kinda means, if we invent a way to handle this middle ground gracefully, the system will be more satisfying and robust.
