• Is a demonstration
  • Bankrupts four (4) CPU players after end of input
  • Manipulates luck
  • Does not aim for fastest time.
Recorded in FCEU 0.98.16, but works in any version.
Although I initially didn't care, I now intend this submission to obsolete the published run.
Monopoly source (outdated, but gives general idea): http://www.savefile.com/files/36316. It's the same as in my cancelled submissions.
See /HomePages/FractalFusion/Source/Monopoly for source.

Gone were the days where one would say "Manipulating three rolls after end of input is impossible". This run manipulates eight rolls after end of input, all of which result in bankruptcy of four CPUs.
Note that BasicBot and the delay search program monopolysolve.cc would not work. Pure randomness assumption says that a solution would occur with probability 1/98537472. Moreover, these programs work over input randomness, not RNG randomness.
However, I found a solution.
The program used was monopolysolve2.cc. Given a starting point for RndVal1 (9000 iterations from the beginning seed 3E2AD2) and using a search distance of 100000 (later shortened to 20000), the program takes a RndVal1 seed and tests, for all 256 possible RndVal2 values, whether it produces the eight rolls necessary to bankrupt the four CPUs. Each CPU must roll a double, followed by 2, 3, 4, or 6, with the restriction that only one CPU is permitted to roll 4 or 6. This relaxed condition relative to the last submissions is a result of an improved strategy, putting 12 houses on the orange properties in two turns without using the "back 3 space" card. The downside is the more restrictive card manipulation. Both hurry timing and relax timing can be tested.
The program did output the following:
(for hurry timing)
Done delay 5000
Done delay 10000
13 33 63 14 00 296305 DE 10237
Done delay 15000
63 63 42 66 00 E5203C 65 15568
Done delay 20000
done
(for relax timing)
23 44 23 33 00 D66FCD 5 4669
Done delay 5000
Done delay 10000
43 23 42 36 00 9ACFC6 1E 13280
Done delay 15000
36 13 12 22 00 9D5BAA F0 18078
52 33 53 52 00 ED528 D2 19135
Done delay 20000
done
I initially took the strategy 13 33 63 14 00 296305 DE 10237 (hurry), but discovered that the RndVal1 delay was too low, so I took 43 23 42 36 00 9ACFC6 1E 13280 (relax), with a RndVal1 delay of 13280.
After testing that the strategy worked (by using cheats to set up the CPUs, then poking the random seed values in), I constructed the run.
I wait at the name screen (RndVal1 delay of over 5000) to manipulate three cards (using the card search program monopoly.cc). Rolling the dice in hand (on my last move) is the fastest way to iterate RndVal1, but it also affects RndVal2, so I carefully set up RndVal2=1E (by entering and exiting the menu just before CPU rolls), then spend enough time to get RndVal1=9ACFC6. These values appear three frames after the movie ends, just before RAM(27) increments to 1.
Here is how the run goes:
H: 1+1 to comm chest (grand opera). Gain $200. $1700
H: 4+4 to just visiting.
H: 4+2 to St. James (buy). $1520
C1: 3+5 to Vermont (buy).
C2: 3+3 to Oriental (buy).
C2: 4+2 to Electric Company (buy).
C3: 3+5 to Vermont (rent).
C4: 6+4 to just visiting.
H: 1+1 to Tennessee (buy). $1340
H: 2+2 to chance (advance to St. Charles) (buy). $1400
H: 3+5 to New York (buy). $1200
H: Buy 12 houses.
C1: 4+4 to St. James, $750 rent.
C1: 1+2 to New York, bankrupt.
C2: 2+2 to St. James, $750 rent.
C2: 2+1 to New York, bankrupt.
C3: 4+4 to St. James, $750 rent.
C3: 1+1 to Tennessee, bankrupt.
C4: 3+3 to St. James, $750 rent.
C4: 4+2 to chance (back 3 to New York), bankrupt.
I may consider cancelling my other submission (#1166, not the ones I already cancelled), but I will wait and see.
Should I go for 5 CPUs bankrupt? Not without a really good find, or unless you can stand 2 or more minutes of rolling the dice in hand.
Thanks to the Monopoly competitors for the strategy, thanks to adelikat for telling me about the "hurry" option, and thanks to everyone else who contributed ideas.

Bisqwit: Accepted as a demonstration movie.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1199: FractalFusion's NES Monopoly "4 CPUs" in 01:07.67
Twisted_Eye
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The last turn was a funny surprise that rounded out the rest of the run, and it's definitely a shocking result for a game of monopoly...but they all did go bankrupt the same way. I'm thinking that if one multi-kill run is accepted, this should be it. Large enough amount of players to sound unbelievable, small enough amount of players to not get redundant by the time the movie is done. I give it a yes, and maybe a suggestion we move on from monopoly (which I'm sure you definitely want to do by now ;) )
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Twisted Eye wrote:
I give it a yes, and maybe a suggestion we move on from monopoly (which I'm sure you definitely want to do by now ;) )
Ditto. It was amusing and worth publishing, but more would be excessive. Nice work.
ideamagnate| .seen aqfaq <nothing happens> DK64_MASTER| .seen nesvideoagent * DK64_MASTER slaps forehead
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Hm, could you make the 5 CPU bankrupt movie involve the player going bankrupt as well? Or is it not possible to have all players go bankrupt?
Sir_VG
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KDR_11k wrote:
Hm, could you make the 5 CPU bankrupt movie involve the player going bankrupt as well? Or is it not possible to have all players go bankrupt?
Theoretically, the only way would be get a chance/community chest card that penalizes everybody including the card drawer...if something like that even exists. If it doesn't, then it is impossible.
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Twisted_Eye
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There isn't, nope. All of the cards directly affect the card drawer only. You can't lose any money if you don't specifically do something to lose it yourself.
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Definitely a yes. Luck manipulation can be so beautiful.
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Sir VG wrote:
KDR_11k wrote:
Hm, could you make the 5 CPU bankrupt movie involve the player going bankrupt as well? Or is it not possible to have all players go bankrupt?
Theoretically, the only way would be get a chance/community chest card that penalizes everybody including the card drawer...if something like that even exists. If it doesn't, then it is impossible.
What if you roll a doubles, do something that takes money away from all players (except for you), and then land on a property on the second turn that bankrupts you? Or does the game end before you can finish your doubles roll?
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DK64_MASTER wrote:
Or does the game end before you can finish your doubles roll?
I would imagine it ends before you can roll again, even though I've not experienced it. The 'collect $50 form each player' card is the only way I could think of doing this. edit: even so, you'd have to land on luxury tax or something afterwards. I'm not sure how to whittle everyone down so far... If I may throw this out there: bankrupt a player with mortgaged properties, but don't have enough assets to cover the 10% needed to be paid to the bank upon transfer of mortgaged properties. edit: again... everyone would have to have little cash... My best guess would be that the 10% is ignored when the last player gets the mortgaged properties. But who knows? edit again: what happens when two players trade mortgaged properties, but both don't have the money to cover the 10%? Hmm... By the way, I'm planning on watching the run when I get home. If it's better than the one you canceled, I'd have to vote yes ;)
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For the life of me, I couldn't bring myself to watch one of these runs before. Mostly because I'd figure that by not knowing what was going on, then it could go completely over my head, and the meaning would be lost to me. So basically, this is how the run went for me: "...okay, I have no idea what's going on." *fateful seconds later!* "o_o How in the fu-" *replay* "...how in the fu-" I still don't thin that I have any better idea of just what is going on, but the experience was mind-blowing to say the least. Yes vote.
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This thing hasn't been cancelled yet? ;P *votes yes for beautiful manipulation, especially with the results in the final turn.*
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Haha, man that's pretty awesome. I wonder what the chance of that happening in the game is...
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I vote for this and for the 0:27 movie to stay. The excellent examples of manipulation.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Good movie. Getting a yes vote. I'd be interested in a demonstration run that shows the old "Pay everyone $50" glitch. Basically, if you draw that card when you have less than $50, the game crashes because the game has no idea how to handle the situation. (Actually I think that was the SNES Monopoly. Might still work on the NES one though...)
...?
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moozooh wrote:
I vote for this and for the 0:27 movie to stay. The excellent examples of manipulation.
Well, this one has different goals then the currently published one. The 0:27 run went for the fastest time, this was a demonstration of how to bankrupt 4 computers well after input actually ended.
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
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kwinse wrote:
Well, this one has different goals then the currently published one. The 0:27 run went for the fastest time, this was a demonstration of how to bankrupt 4 computers well after input actually ended.
I know. Read the submission text to understand what I mean.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Perhaps some may disagree, but I think that the other Monopoly submission (the 0:27 one) should be cancelled. The 0:27 run was made with a few goals in mind: - Fastest input (without using cheat keys, of course) - Trade strategy - Do something unexpected - Manipulate 3 rolls after end of input - Most time between input end and win (CPU(s) bankruptcy) The fastest input goal is obsoleted by something 8 frames faster and half as entertaining. Trade strategy is not as good as forcing the CPU (as in, the CPU makes no critical decisions). Every other goal is obsoleted by this submission. True, the run was very bizarre, but being bizarre is not a criterion for a run to be published.
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Omg! That was a beauty... I was just wondering about several things about luck manipulation in this game. Can't quite understand a lot of the technicalities in your submission text, but I was wondering what exactly affects the randomness of the game? I was experimenting random bashing after your input ended to see if it would change the way things turned out but it didnt... Is it because the things the game factors into randomness is independent on button presses, but more of time taken to make each move? One more thing, was the naming sequence meant as a joke or intended for manipulation? Whatever it is, I found it quite hilarious LOL Well done FractalFusion, you've just brought luck manipulation and brute force TAS-ing to a new level ;)
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xoinx wrote:
Omg! That was a beauty... I was just wondering about several things about luck manipulation in this game. Can't quite understand a lot of the technicalities in your submission text, but I was wondering what exactly affects the randomness of the game? I was experimenting random bashing after your input ended to see if it would change the way things turned out but it didnt... Is it because the things the game factors into randomness is independent on button presses, but more of time taken to make each move?
Hmm, somehow missed it earlier. Anyway, the randomness of the entire game is mostly determined by 4 bytes in memory. The 4 bytes are dependent on certain timing of button presses that initiate an action. They are not affected by random button mashing. So it's more of time taken to make each move. The entire "ending" is determined from one random seed (i.e. 4 bytes) and whether "relax" or "hurry up" is used. So, in a way, I ran the ending before the beginning. :) Note that mashing the select button will disrupt the ending, because it will go into the subscreen on a CPU's roll (not after double). The naming sequence is meant as a joke. OK, it's not really a joke but I have enough of an opportunity to enter any name in there. Edit: Entering a letter does luck-manipulate, but it does not matter which letter. It only matters when.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [717] NES Monopoly "4 CPUs" by FractalFusion in 01:07.67
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4 cpus = 1 qaurt!
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I can't believe this was possible. I believe this is a master of the speed run...I would salute you with a Beer if I had any.
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Is it my imagination, or is there significant audio/video desync near the end of the AVI?
Shaded Spriter wrote:
I can't believe this was possible. I believe this is a master of the speed run...I would salute you with a Beer if I had any.
Keep in mind that this is very much a demonstration. The demonstration relies on the sequence after end of input having a naïve probability of 1/98537472 of occurring. 1/98537472 (or luck manipulation for that matter) does not put a run on a pedestal. Entertainment does. I didn't aim for fastest time, even though it looks that way. I forgot to mention, but:
(for hurry timing)
...
  63 63 42 66 00 E5203C 65 15568
...
Even though the delay (15568) is longer than this one (13280), constructed movie will almost certainly be shorter than this one even in input. I didn't motivate myself to do so ... yet. Pros: - shorter absolute difference between input end and game end - shorter input - less rolls - each CPU takes only one move prior to input end - 3 CPUs land on income tax Cons: - shorter absolute difference between input end and game end :) - more waiting - no double-roll (triple-roll, really) manipulation prior to input end - 3 of 4 CPUs land on the same square (1+3 / 3+1), then those 3 roll 6+6 on next move.
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That's fucking HILARIOUS! A definite yes vote from me.
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You are evil man. VERY EVIL. I love it.
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