I've been wanting to do this for a long time but, I felt that the author of the 120 star run would probally do this in the end, but after a long discussion on IRC he had no objection to me doing it and so I started the very next day.
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Takes Damage to save time
  • Ignores semi-important goals
Thanks to everyone on the SM64 board including nesrocks, Robert_z, laughing gas,silent_slayers and to a certain extent RIkku as his previous unsubmitted TAS showed some great strategies that I would otherwise would have not come up with at the time.
I was excited about doing this becuase with all the glitches available I could really do the whole thing completely out of order and being 3D would allow me to me more expressive in my actions as opposed to the roboticness of 2D.
Over the course of the game I reckon the choice of stars saved 4 seconds, the new star glitches and shortcuts saved 15 seconds and the lobby glitch saved 6 seconds, while the rest of the time came through better optimization. This was possible because of Nitsuja's virtual analougue stick which I strongly argue gives far more precision that what a controller would give espeacally for optimal turns and long jumps as well as moving at hyper speed.

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Improvements are scattered all about, and they're only bits and pieces at a time. IF someone was going to improve the run, it wouldn't be by much of a difference. Someone will probably solve the Bowser2 door glitch now that I've said this. Knock on wood.
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Check out the Mario64 thread. I think AKA may be considering redoing the run, if more tricks etc are found.
AKA wrote:
My movie is a lot more improvable than 13 frames, if the newer strategies save enough time I'd be prepared to redo.
As for the improvements, here's what bkDJ said
bkDJ wrote:
Holy crap. Bowser 1's level is noticibly faster, and yet the beginning still seems somewhat optimizable. the ascent to star 3 seemed faster as well. both the ccm stars seem optimizable. entering Whomp's Fortress seemed much faster. overall I'd say AKA had the best camera angles but Rikku had some better ones sometimes. I liked being able to see what was going on with the lobby glitch. If we could combine the best of both, and add some minor other improvements (like using the windless areas behind the pillars on the final platform of the game to gain some speed maybe?) this run could be sub 15:30.
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xoinx wrote:
Eh... Rikku just posted a complete run on Dehack's microstorage which beats this by 13 frames... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2867/SUPER%20MARIO%2064.m64
Can we expect to see this published in the near future, crediting rikku as the creator? Fastest run wins, as awsome as AKA's run is. Im suprised it will be king of the hill so briefly.
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nesrocks
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i don't know, 13 frames sounds like too little. If there are known better ways, then either should remake the run.
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How do you mean too little? Isnt any improvement enough to say that another run is better?
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nesrocks
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Twelvepack wrote:
How do you mean too little? Isnt any improvement enough to say that another run is better?
that has been the point of heated discussions that led to some people quitting TASing before. but preferably, you want to use new strategies that improve the time and improve it in visible ways too. but if i'm not mistaken, there are many parts of rikku's run where AKA's is faster.
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It leads to troublesome situations, because it is entirely possable to have a faster run that is far less entertaining, but that is neither here nor there. I dont really want to start such a discussion again, so I will not say anything more on the topic. Once again, good run AKA. Enjoyed it thuroughly.
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Twelvepack wrote:
How do you mean too little? Isnt any improvement enough to say that another run is better?
The thing is, the published run is always a kind of a quality milestone. Everyone involved into SM64 running knows there are possible improvements that sum up to seconds, not just 13 frames. Thus the new run should definitely correct all those mistakes and stuff, or else it would continue ad infinitum, and I bet you wouldn't be too happy to see a new run appear every week beating the previous one by 13 frames. Of course, I'm exaggerating, but you see the picture. As for the run, I finally came around to watching it, and I must say that it was surprisingly entertaining and considerably well planned. Good job AKA, I'm looking forward for a sub-15:30 run.
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I think frame improvement such as 13 frames should only count in the case of a game where it is as close to perfect as we can get, such as in the case of Super Mario Bros. Super Mario 64 is not even remotely close to this level yet.
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very nice EDIT: I noticed in his comments he mispelled Rikku "Rukki". That was a bit weird.
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Holy crap... such an abuse of programm errors I've never seen in my whole life. Would vote for yes. (If I can -_-)
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Nice improvement on an awesome run. Since voting yes is pointless now I'll go ahead and rate this run. Good job AKA and thanks for taking the time to do this run.
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Here is my opinion. [13:26:19] <Fabian_> it pisses me off how people say "it's just 13 frames it shouldn't be published" [13:26:41] <Fabian_> I mean I see the problem when someone says "I'm going to redo this run, I expect to save 13 frames" [13:26:43] <Fabian_> but here we are [13:26:47] <Fabian_> with two runs [13:26:50] <Fabian_> one is faster than the other [13:26:57] <Fabian_> so what the hell would it be rejected for?
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nesrocks
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because 13 frames can be achieved with little effort copying someone's run and then changing something. It wouldn't be fair to the one who made it first. I don't say Rikku copied anything, but if you want to obsolete this run, you'll need to use at least a different technique somewhere to justify it. Just "better angles" don't. Like they said, it's still far from perfection, and there ARE better techniques to be used. It makes no sense to keep publishing every 13 frame improvement because the encoders wouldn't sleep, since the run can be improved a lot still.
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FODA wrote:
because 13 frames can be achieved with little effort copying someone's run and then changing something. It wouldn't be fair to the one who made it first. I don't say Rikku copied anything, but if you want to obsolete this run, you'll need to use at least a different technique somewhere to justify it. Just "better angles" don't. Like they said, it's still far from perfection, and there ARE better techniques to be used. It makes no sense to keep publishing every 13 frame improvement because the encoders wouldn't sleep, since the run can be improved a lot still.
I kinda get the impression you didn't read my post. I agree it's a complicated grey area when someone decides to improve a run and only slightly improves it (which doesn't mean I agree with you in that situation either, though it does become more complicated). I don't think that's the case here. From what I understand, here we have two runs done at the same time, one being faster than the other. Now, if this was accepted for publishing and it turned out no encoder felt like going through the hour (?) long process of encoding it, that's one thing. I won't ever tell an encoder what to do, they're providing a great service without getting any compensation for it, and how they decide to spend their encoding time is completely not my business. Rejecting an existing faster run because a) it is arbitrarily decided the improvement is not significant enough or b) non-encoders decide what encoders should or should not spend their time on, are not good reasons in my opinion. Again though, repeating my earlier point, it's one thing to start redoing a run aiming for a 13 frame improvement. It's a completely other thing to have a faster run done and it still not being accepted. Again, if encoding it takes a lot of time because no encoders put it high up on their priority list, that's fine and up to them.
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nesrocks
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It was finished after AKA's, wasn't it? Anyway, they won't encode it because tomorrow or next week someone will show up with a 5 frames faster run, and it should be published too? what about 2 frames? or 1? The run needs to LOOK different.
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FODA wrote:
It was finished after AKA's, wasn't it? Anyway, they won't encode it because tomorrow or next week someone will show up with a 5 frames faster run, and it should be published too? what about 2 frames? or 1? The run needs to LOOK different.
I have no idea, if you say so it probably was. Can't have been by a lot though? I'm not sure what's going on here. Either you're ignoring my points completely or I don't understand that you're joking and everyone will laugh at me. So to avoid looking like a complete fool I'll just point you to my last post, and from there we'll agree to disagree, I guess.
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Mitjitsu
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I just finished watching Rikki's run and I'm excited by the new strategies that were showing mainly the by the lobby glitch and BoB stars as well as Bowser#1 stuff, but like others have said there is too many sections in the game where the run was obviouly slower and the improvements should have shaved at least 3 seconds and anyway the route I choosed wasn't even the optimal route through the game after FODA had commented on my run I reckon I could obselete the current movie by at least 7 seconds. I've decided to do Bower#1 after BoB, but I felt doing Bowser first would add a more surprising factor but since people know to expect that I'll delay it a bit next time, as going to BoB first might throw people off a bit at the start.
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AKA wrote:
I just finished watching Rikki's run and I'm excited by the new strategies that were showing mainly the by the lobby glitch and BoB stars as well as Bowser#1 stuff, but like others have said there is too many sections in the game where the run was obviouly slower and the improvements should have shaved at least 3 seconds and anyway the route I choosed wasn't even the optimal route through the game after FODA had commented on my run I reckon I could obselete the current movie by at least 7 seconds. I've decided to do Bower#1 after BoB, but I felt doing Bowser first would add a more surprising factor but since people know to expect that I'll delay it a bit next time, as going to BoB first might throw people off a bit at the start.
So the two existing runs actually DO look different too? Interesting. Anyway, that discussion probably won't matter soon since you're redoing it. Good luck with that.
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I've uploaded it to YouTube if anyones interested.
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I never check these boards, and I didn't know this thread existed; but if I did know about it, I'd give it a "hell yes!". Which I still scream after seeing it.
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I've closely watched Rikki's Movie up till when he collects the red coins which was my last partial movie file and he has 5.37 seconds faster, which means I made a 5.15 second swing which to me at leastm means that sub 15:30 is a certainty for the next video. I'm quite apreacuative that he uploaded his movie though.
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WOW! So we can 'easily' expect a sub 15:30? Neat! Never expected the revisions to the route to save yet another 10s again... Rikku, you should have came earlier :P
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AKA wrote:
I've closely watched Rikki's Movie...
You know, I hate to do this, but is it so hard to get such a simple name as Rikku correct? That's like the 4th time you've messed up the name.
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I only counted 2 times
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