The heuristics for encounters are not perfect. I'd recommend actually going to the locations where the counter jumps around and actually try it. Find out if it's a flaw in the counter or if there really is a rate change between them.
It's strange because it always seems to be in certain areas that the counter goes wonky.
I was wondering, as sometimes the counter really jumped for no apparent reason, though twas almost always up, and it also shows the no encounter step glitch (Walking on worldmap by mountains)
Was entertaining at least, although a bit long to watch.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Spoony_Bard wrote:
If you do the GBA run, will you be waiting for the NA release of it? I think it's due out March 1st, unless it's leaked early.
Definitely. Moon symbols = unfun. I won't download a leaked game though. If I decide that I want a head start on route planning, character levels, and encounter manipulation then I'll get the Japanese version. The two versions might even be compatible with each other.
I think the encounter counter is correct even when it jumps. Check out 2:54:30 in my movie. At that moment I get into an encounter one step away from the entrance to the cave near Thamasa. I remember something strange happening while I was recording this section:
1) [2:54:00] Equip Charm Bangle, leave Thamasa
2) [2:54:12] Random encounter. Had to be manipulated pre-emptive.
This is what my run does:
3) [2:54:30] Random encounter one step outside of the entrance.
4) [2:54:44] Two slight hiccups with the encounter counter.
5) [2:54:46] The encounter counter freezes at 5! Probably Relm's doing.
This is what happened in one of my test runs:
3) I smoke bombed out of this one.
4) The random encounter happened inside the cave, not outside, on precisely the step where the first hiccup occured. I can remember it clearly because I was surprised to see an enounter 'move'.
At first I thought that re-equipping the Charm Bangle was causing the difference. Now I suspect that I was unknowingly stepping on those corner tiles. I don't know if your encounter counter adapts to me taking the Charm Bangle on and off. That would explain everything since I haven't been able to replicate my test run.
Can the sketch bug in American 1.0 be used to set the "I'm in World of Ruin" flag? Carefully park the Blackjack on the Veldt, sketch you-know-who, board the Falcon, and head straight to you-know-where.
Melissa
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Myria wrote:
Can the sketch bug in American 1.0 be used to set the "I'm in World of Ruin" flag? Carefully park the Blackjack on the Veldt, sketch you-know-who, board the Falcon, and head straight to you-know-where.
Melissa
It might be possible. The problem is that I can't control which addresses become corrupted. The positions of the memory corruption seem to be determined by the formation's mould. But the values seem to be affected by the naughty word at $20FF. And in my tests, the new values also seem to sometimes depend on the monsters present in the formation. I know why $20FF affects the new values - because it is being directly converted to a sprite pointer and used. The mould seems to matter because the formation mould affects the size and layout of a monster's sprite. It makes sense that different moulds should blast different pixels. But I can't imagine why certain monsters seem to matter. It's not like the monster's sprite is being used for anything, or is it?
Off the top of my head I think the event flags (and treasure chest flags) are located near the top of the RAM after some of the very important engine variables ($7E1???). Next comes a bunch of character variables and your inventory ($7E2???). Some variables in the $7E3000 range are used in combat. There are 6 enemies and 4 friends and they all have HP, a battle gauge, stats, etc. Just after that is your in-battle inventory. The reason the sketch glitch works is because your in-battle characters and inventory is saved over your out-of-battle characters and inventory. Beyond $7E4000 I'm not familiar with but I think the map data starts around $7E8000 and there seems to be some sprite data after $7F0000. Every time I've done the Sketch Glitch and lived to tell about it I usually see addresses between $7E3000 and $7E5000 become corrupted. I suspect that if earlier addresses are ever hit that the game will die in some interesting way. For example, the game might try to check for spells that party member #96 (oops) has learned.* And if later memory addresses are hit then the game will crash after the battle ends when it fails to load a corrupt map. Take that speclation with a grain of salt. I can't be sure because the game and emulator are dead at that point and i can't make any observations.**
There is a common camera glitch that I've seen happen as a result of the sketch glitch. I've also got it to happen after equipping item 159 with the equip anything glitch on FF6j. So it does seem possible to blast engine variables without killing the game. But I can't realistically manipulate it. First, I have to 'choose' a value for $20FF that won't cause the sprite loading function to give up early. (Stupid defensive programming.) I can't easily 'choose' any value I want for that word unless I'm testing with cheat codes. Next, I have to target a specific monster and mould. This is impossible to test exhaustively. And then finally when it all comes together one of several things can happen. 90% of the time nothing happens because the bad load aborted. 7% of the time the game explodes violently. 3% of the time a good sketch glitch occurs. Once in a lifetime I'll see something like the Chimera's result. I spent a long time testing random combinations to find that one. It would be a massive calculation to figure out which memory addresses will be clobbered by a sketch attempt. And even if I could do that then I'd need to know which memory addresses would cause problems under... and with... I think it's a scarier problem than trying to brute force the fastest solution to a NES game.
I do like the idea of using the veldt though. That opens up a lot of monster formations that Relm wouldn't otherwise have access to.
*The game does this by looping through each spell and running the following function: if spell_percent > 100 then spell_percent = 100. It is definitely a bad thing to be setting random addresses to 100. So now something else in the game will break...
**If a SNES cartridge requests a write to $KZ:7AQX then I think Snes9X should not allow it. The emulator should return random values for illegal reads, too. It's very annoying when Windows XP kills my emulator to save the rest of my system. And it's twice as annoying when Snes9X doesn't get killed and instead begins corrupting my session.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Oof. That was a longer post than I meant to write on the subject. I'll make up for it by posting about FF6j-Advance in bullet list form. :)
* I'm not starting a run yet so I haven't made a thread in the GBA forum.
* But the since the interest for this game is here, I'll post my thoughts about it here.
System:
* Random encounters are still 'fated', which is a bit of a bummer.
* The quicksave (hibernate) option hasn't opened up any interesting glitches yet. I even tried using it during the moogle's battle and the game suspended the event gracefully. Dang.
* The random encounter index is saved by the quicksave. If you're one step away from an enounter, save, power off, power on, load, take one step, you'll still get a battle. The same is true if you're five steps away.
* The random encounter index is not saved in a full save. And just like the SNES version there seems to be a modification (+1 still?) made when you load a game.
* Attempting to abuse the above fact to prevent random encounters on the world map was about 100 frames slower than manipulating a pre-emptive and running away. (And in the test it took two chances for everyone to run away. When characters fail to run away immediately it takes 256 frames before they get a second chance. Stupid slow title screen.)
* There is a soft reset! BASS!
* Because of the new battle transition that can end on any frame, not every 4th frame, I can manipulate pre-emptive attacks 800% more often, 1200% faster, and in about 30 seconds of my time. So good! I can make the enemies roll low for Vigor if I want to. And for bosses I can't get a pre-emptive against I can now arrange a situation where they start low on their ATB gauge and I start high. That's bad news for people who like the dialogue between Vargas and Sabin.
* Super dash does not open any new clipping glitches. I can't skip event triggers, either, not even with different timings of the subscreen.
* I can pass through any NPC in any direction with superdash. I can now also pass through the enemies during the Narshe Battle! (And the moogle's battle.) Major savings right there.
* Superdash is the best thing to happen to RPG speed runs since the turbo button.
* In Figaro Castle the NPCs who run back and forth yelling "FIRE!!" were moved slightly so that my improved ability to clip through NPCs doesn't work on them. That kind of makes me wonder... did they leave the glitch in on purpose? They like Kutan? I sure as heck don't.
Strategy:
* Instant death immunity actually works. :(
* ...except the Ghost Train, because his stupid OHKO was intentional. :)
* With the evade bug fixed I can now manipulate physical dodges much easier. 'Luck' becomes a viable strategy for a team of level 8s against Number 128.
* Celes + Earring + Earring = goodbye! (Terra is frequently incapacitated by the plot.)
* I could take the Thunder Rod during Locke's scenario for Number 128.
* Ultros 3 will be a major pain since Locke does crap damage before the Phoenix Cave and Strago just joined.
* In this version of the game it might not be impossible to use the magicite item to summon Ragnarok and get a Flame Shld. (The RNG wouldn't allow it in the SNES version. The required series of lucky numbers never appeared next to each other in the table.)
* Not even with the craziest luck manipulation will it be possible for a group of level 10s to beat this game. At least not without also making it a 100% run and wasting time learning spells on the veldt to intentionally keep your level low.
Content:
* New English lyrics for the opera which I think will be the ones (that I've never heard) from Dear Friends. I can waste frames to make them readable.
* There was an Ultros reference in FF12 and his name was Orthros.
* Four new espers: two of which may come into play during a speed run, one of which you only get as a reward for beating one of the bonus dungeons.
* The first bonus dungeon contains rediculous boss battles. I don't want to spoil it but "Skull Dragon 2" can regenerate his full HP, even from 0 HP, several dozen times. Somebody else has permanent runic status!
* The second bonus dungeon is a boss rush and might make a nifty movie by itself.
* The GBA has a resolution of 240x160. FF6 doesn't look bad at this resolution because a dozen artists went back to tweak every sprite. But after a few hours with FF6j-A the SNES version looks like 1080i by comparison.
EDIT: The soft reset is BASS, not BARL. And thank you Ozmodiar. :)
Sounds interesting. A speedrun of this version would be fascinating, and I plan on picking the cart up myself when it comes out.
Are there any plans for a run?
I just got my hands on the US version FF6 Advance... and I've got to say it look damn sweet. Menus now look much better, and item & spell names are more complete!
For those who are too used to playing the SNES/PS version of FF6, switching over to this version would probably need quite a bit of getting used to... many items, skills and spells etc have all been renamed. For example SwordTechs are now known as Bushidos, which sounds really weird :S
Btw, Catastrophe, now that the US version is out, will you be starting work on this soon?
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I started it, I got comfortable with a new emulator, and then I got sick of the game. And then I ran out of other interesting games to run. I'm pretty sure that the FF6A version would be less than 3 hours even with all the bug fixes.
For the route. Play the same WOB as Erokky and I except be sure to use the Lete River optimization. Obviously don't grab the dumb chests that I did. However, I think my 3 Earrings were optimal. Now that evade works you might want the Guardian in Mt. Koltz since Locke is forced very often. Also, now that evade works, you dodge attacks more easily. Mblock is only on a few WOR items so physical dodging was pretty much out of the question during the SNES WOB. (Unless you get lucky like what I did 'on purpose' with Bannon.) Now dodging attacks can be a real part of your strategy.
Thankfully both redirecting 7-7-Bar and rigging 7-7-7 still work. However, certain battles, such as the Guardian, should be faster with Fixed Dice + Offering. The Offering (Master Scroll, Celestriads, Soul of Thamasa, Pinwheel, Hi-Potion, Princess Ring, WHATEVER) will take a minute to get but it's worth looking into since optimized Fixed Dice should destroy the 777-banned formations faster than the redirection strategy will. Plus, killing bosses with damage is supposedly prefered by the audience. Either way Setzer is the man.
The Kutan glitch is still available but you shouldn't do it. You might actually need Celes to use runic.
The WOR needs a new plan. Mog is no longer an instant win with Snare, neither is Gau, and you can't get a million Flame Shlds. Setzer needs help to redirect 7-7-B if you choose to use that strategy. I'd recommend Mog just for the Molulu Charm. Then get Gogo for 'free' since you have super dash and no random encounters. Gogo can be like another Setzer! Setzer can take out Guardian and Poltrgeist using Fixed Dice and Offering. Gogo can take out Inferno and Goddess using a redirected 7-7-B with Edgar's help. (Edgar, because he can learn the requisite Muddle for free from WOB bosses.) That leaves Celes and Mog to take out Doom. If you take out Poltrgeist first then you can give the Dragonboots (for redirecting 77B) and the Holy Lance (newly won) to Mog and let Celes use the Excalibur (that you just won from Goddess) and the Offering. The Holy Lance, ironically, is not holy elemental but the Excalibur is, and Doom is weak to that. Then when you get to the tiers just use which ever startegy works with the luck manipulation that you can do: Offering + Fixed Dice, 77B, or 777 on Kefka.
Nah, if the monster is normally immune to death, then insta-death won't hurt it at all. But if it CAN be doomed/banished but at a very very low %, the vanish combo will work.
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
hey i'm curious if anyone has givin any thought to doing a FF6 run where they rescue all chars before beating the game... i realize this would be longer but the ending would be better!
Yes, it would be longer. A LOT longer.
The conditions for a 100% run would be pretty vague. There's a huge amount of stuff to do, like slay the dragons and collect a pile of magicite that would make Kefka proud. All characters seems like a good goal, but it also seems kinda arbitrary. I'm not sure I think it's a good idea.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
100% in my mind would be getting all of Gau's rages (all the possible ones at least), Strago's Lores, and Mog's dances (all the other characters get their abilities more or less naturally, through the story). Gau's rages alone would take a mind-numbingly long time.
It's something I would do for myself, but not something I would look for in a TAS.
Speaking of which, did they add in Gau's missing rages on the GBA version?
I guess the only realistic somewhat 100%ish run would be all caracters before kefka, at most all caracters and all magicite. Such a run if made should also in my opinion ban insta death magic such as vanish+doom and joker doom(joker death?).
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
100% is all characters, Espers, Lore, Dance, Rage, Blitz, SwdTech, etc. There is no reason to make finite item fetching necessary, and there is no reason to start banning techniques.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
I always hated that about 100% runs in general. When I do them for myself, I have to make arbitrary guidelines where I will draw the line between what's fun (for me), and what's just tedious. For example, I would feel achieved if I got all of Gau's attainable rages, but I think it would be pointless to get as many as possible of each item, especially since this would involve using Morph and excessive coliseum battles.
Even though a file with the maximum amount of each item would technically be more complete, it seems way too much of a task, especially in this game.
well you guys are talkin 100% and i am jsut talkin all characters collected i don't even think me in my Hardcore FF could sit though a offical 100% run.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
100%, if someone does it, should be "100% of the things that can be had without spending hours repeating a task for no gain". Getting all of Gau's rages, finding 99 of every item, and teaching everyone every spell would take hours and add nothing.
I'd suggest:
* 100% of items
* 100% of espers, with Raiden replacing Odin
* 100% of characters
Which is basically everything notable about the game. In order to meet these three movie goals you'll have to kill almost every monster, visit almost every map, and complete almost every quest anyway. And you'll also have to be playing the GBA version in order to get 100% items. Which is good, because then the movie will show off the bonus content.
The current SNES run still haunts me to this day. My original goal was 4 hours. Ending with 4:15 after a year's effort was disappointing. Seeing that the published run also missed 4 hours was encouraging. And I've already posted the route for 3:45. Knowing that my goal is all but done is maddening. A 20 minute improvement is probably an auto-accept. But it would be the most boring 20 minute improvement ever. I don't think anyone would want to spend 3 hours watching it, and I don't want to spend 40-50 hours making it. Especially since the GBA version would make for a much better and much faster movie. I think the GBA version should obsolete the SNES version. But even if I or someone else does the GBA version, and it's an awesome movie, I'm still going to be haunted by the SNES version. >_<
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
What do you mean by 100% of items? Out of curiosity. I absolutely agree that a 100% TAS shouldn't include Gau's Rages, as that would be mind numbingly boring.
