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Posted: 1/9/2007 8:39 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Yrr wrote:
I'd guess there isn't a perfect movie, each can be improved by at least 1 frame. I might be wrong, but a perfect movie? I can't imagine. Besides that, I really think only brute force, or AI which completely understand the game's algorithm, is able to perform a perfect run. But who knows?
I think this is true in many cases where the movies are somewhat long and somewhat complicated. I didn't really consider stuff like monopoly or king's bounty though.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 1/9/2007 9:37 PM
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Mitjitsu
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Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
I think SMB3 qualifies as a perfect movie you don't spend 80,000 re-records on a short 10 min game for nothing, espeacially when the movies have been obselted many times before.
Posted: 1/9/2007 11:59 PM
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mushroom
Player (105)
Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 193
Location: Flowood, MS
Vegas Stakes is probably frame-perfect, barring some undiscovered glitch (which, really, is the case with any run perceived as frame-perfect).
<adelikat> tony hawk is porn for me <Comicalflop>my mom is hot
Posted: 1/10/2007 2:11 AM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
I thought that rerecords doesn't count in a "perfect" movie, because you should use as much as you need, and not as lower as possible.
Posted: 1/10/2007 4:08 AM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
SMB1 (the newest version) is also probably perfect. and who said that many re-records is a bad thing?
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 1/10/2007 4:26 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
Twelvepack wrote:
and who said that many re-records is a bad thing?
No-one did. It's just that it doesn't actually show how "perfect" a movie is. Remember SprintGod's S3&K run with 160K rerecords? Got improved by 10 minutes. Or Bisqwit & Shinryuu's Rockman 2 with more than 220K rerecords not counting endless BisqBot's bruteforce attempts? Got improved by several seconds without using any bots at all, with much less rerecords. So, apparently, rerecord count hardly tells anything aside from approximate measures of how thorough the author was.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 1/10/2007 6:26 AM
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Titus_Kwok
Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level
well, we can just assume that it takes a lot of rerecords to find the quickest way to do something, and not quite so many to refine it.
Posted: 1/10/2007 7:17 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
I'd rather say the opposite. Although I believe it heavily depends on the game itself and one's dedication to the refinement.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 1/10/2007 8:40 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Titus Kwok wrote:
well, we can just assume that it takes a lot of rerecords to find the quickest way to do something, and not quite so many to refine it.
Refinement is part of finding the quickest way. It takes a lot of rerecords. Repeating what's already found previously, does not take many rerecords.
Posted: 1/16/2007 4:00 PM
Post subject: Re: Proposition for the technical rating description
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Warp
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Yrr wrote:
How should a watcher know how close it is to optimal length? A impressed one would think, "Wow, I didn't think you can do this glitch and I never thought of using this at that place! This HAS to be optimal!" or something. Most of the watcher aren't familiar with the in-game mechanism, glitches, sequence breaking and whatever. How should such a person know if this is perfect? And quite nobody does frame-per-frame analysis to find out, "Hey! This can be improved by 1 frame!".
That's why the vote is an opinion in the same way as the entertainment vote is.
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:25 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
If it's just an opinion, then why did you start this whole topic to try to decide exactly how people should be voting on it? Shouldn't people be voting however they perceive they should be voting? Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:29 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Bag, we know you internet sucks, shut the hell up already. Bag, we know you internet sucks, shut the hell up already. Bag, we know you internet sucks, shut the hell up already. Bag, we know you internet sucks, shut the hell up already.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:31 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
And you made the same spelling error 4 times! Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form. Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:38 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Baxter, please add Bag to my list. Thanks.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 1/16/2007 7:03 PM
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Baxter
Skilled player (1402)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
JXQ wrote:
Baxter, please add Bag to my list. Thanks.
Ok, done. On-topic: I might not have posted in this thread yet, but I think you all know my opinion about the technical rating, which I posted in this thread (it may have even triggered the creation of this thread, but that's probably taking too much credit :p ).
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 1/17/2007 11:51 AM
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upthorn
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Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Sega TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TASer of 2007
JXQ wrote:
Baxter, please add Bag to my list. Thanks.
Cold, man. Cold.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 1/17/2007 11:54 AM
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Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
JXQ wrote:
Baxter, please add Bag to my list. Thanks.
lol
Posted: 1/17/2007 11:55 AM
(Edited: 1/18/2007 9:25 PM)
Post subject: post 500, wasted right here
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Xkeeper
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
What is this list? Is it the "Best people ever" list? People JXQ wants to persoonally congratulate on kicking arse? I appear to have missed the memo. Peas halp =( (Edit : 500 ;_; )
Perma-banned
Posted: 1/18/2007 6:02 PM
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Warp
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
If it's just an opinion, then why did you start this whole topic to try to decide exactly how people should be voting on it?
Because people should know what is it that they should give an opinion about. The voting system is asking on the voter's opinion on something concrete, not just a random opinion on a vague and unprecise thing. If the question is vague and misleading, the voting is useless. If the question is clear and precise, the votes become valuable.
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