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Posted: 8/26/2006 8:35 PM
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phunqsauce
Joined: 6/5/2005
Posts: 139
ahhhhhh........the massive breakage continues...I never thought this one could be significantly improved after the last amazing video....keep proving me wrong!
I like stuff...
Posted: 1/9/2007 11:37 PM
(Edited: 1/23/2022 9:52 PM)
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Left: current movie Right: a technique demonstration https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/rockman-electhrugatecomp.avi (2 MB) This strategy was apparently demonstrated by Finalfighter in October 2005. ____________ (With apologies to Vg Cats)
Posted: 1/10/2007 1:23 AM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
Well soon you'll be able to warp to the end of the level in one shot.
Posted: 1/10/2007 1:40 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Bummer it's so close to the beginning. However, with the current theme being "Do the whole run, then hex-edit an improvement at the beginning and assume it will be fine!", you should have no problems. :D
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 1/10/2007 1:48 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I warned them!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/10/2007 6:31 AM
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Titus_Kwok
Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level
is it my imagination, or was the video on the left faster through the first room? and what's up with leo there?
Posted: 1/10/2007 9:14 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
As was suggested to me, it seems likely the video of the new strategy is just a quick demonstration – it has not been optimized. (Yet it is still faster than the original.)
Posted: 1/10/2007 9:24 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Titus Kwok wrote:
is it my imagination, or was the video on the left faster through the first room?
Yes, it used a magnet beam there to be able to jump higher (jumping is a faster way to progress upwards than climbing). The rightside video saved one beam there (sacrificing 49 frames) in order to be able to use it in the next screen. (There's a limited number of the beams after all.)
Posted: 2/11/2007 8:42 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
So when are you going to figure out how the code for the random item drops works so you can calculate what button pressing sequences will lead to the desired item drop?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 2/11/2007 8:52 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I think he already figured it out quite a while ago, but the formula's too tricky to simply calculate the fastest way to get what you want.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 2/16/2007 4:49 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
some nice lines of code could break it down and come up with some good solutions.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 2/16/2007 8:25 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
You need code? Well, here goes. First declare some global variables: 　　unsigned char RandomSeed; // at RAM address $46 　　unsigned char FrameCounter; // at RAM address $23 　　unsigned char Temp; // at RAM address $0D At the end of every frame, this code is executed: 　　FrameCounter = FrameCounter + 1; 　　RandomSeed = (RandomSeed ^ Temp) + FrameCounter; To determine a random item drop, this code is executed when an enemy is killed: 　　switch(RandomSeed % 100) 　　{ 　　　　case 99: create item 0x41; break; // i.e. create extra life 　　　　case 97...98: create item 0x40; break; // i.e. create big health refill 　　　　case 95...96: create item 0x3F; break; // i.e. create big weapon refill 　　　　case 80...94: create item 0x3E; break; // i.e. create small health refill 　　　　case 65...79: create item 0x3D; break; // i.e. create small weapon refill 　　　　case 12...64: create item 0x3C; break; // i.e. create bonus pearl 　　　　case 0...11: break; // i.e. create nothing 　　} The Temp variable is not reserved for any particular purpose by the game, so it is constantly overwritten with different values. However, by the time the NMI is executed, it practically contains one of these two values (unless there was lag, in which case it may contain any intermediate product of any calculation the game was doing when the NMI fired): ― The number of 8x8 sprites rendered on the screen, multiplied by 4. ― The value 3, if the screen just scrolled a pixel. You see, this code is very simple. Now try to determine how precisely to act in order to accomplish a certain goal fast. Do not bother replying with a quick thought unless you have a simulation to back it up with.
Posted: 2/16/2007 2:39 PM
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KDR_11k
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 352
Location: Germany
Does that mean that if two enemies die on the same frame they leave the same item?
Posted: 2/16/2007 2:46 PM
Post subject: It does.
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DeHackEd
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
It does.
Posted: 2/16/2007 2:46 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
KDR_11k wrote:
Does that mean that if two enemies die on the same frame they leave the same item?
Yes. (Also in Rockman 2.) However, I recall the game does object-object collision checks only to half of the objects per frame. I don't remember if it covered all kind of collision checks, but it means for example that when you enter a teleport, you can only enter it at even frames but not at odd frames (or vice versa, depending whether the teleport item received an odd or even slot number in the object table when it was spawned). Point being, I'm not sure if you can actually reliably kill any selected two enemies at the same frame… But you can clearly see this (your question) being the case in Rockman 2, for example when you use the wood shield and a flock of tiny birds approach it simultaneously.
Posted: 2/17/2007 9:17 PM
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Aaron_Haynes
Joined: 2/3/2006
Posts: 69
Sending a metal blade through them right after the egg breaks open often produces the same result, though most of the items collide with each other and disappear quickly.
Posted: 2/19/2007 4:33 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Now try to determine how precisely to act in order to accomplish a certain goal fast.
What are your choices of how to act for this case?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 2/19/2007 11:14 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Spider-Waffle wrote:
What are your choices of how to act for this case?
Basically, anything that can happen in playing, while noting that you can't arbitrarily select which frame an enemy dies under given randomness; enemies do move, and you have to fire shots, and those shots do travel.
Posted: 3/1/2007 4:05 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Bisqwit wrote:
Spider-Waffle wrote:
What are your choices of how to act for this case?
Basically, anything that can happen in playing, while noting that you can't arbitrarily select which frame an enemy dies under given randomness; enemies do move, and you have to fire shots, and those shots do travel.
What can't you make happen while playing in terms of sprites and scrolling the screen 1 pixel? for example, can you scroll the screen 1 pixel every frame? Can you make 11 sprites apear on one frame, then go to 0 sprites on the next? Also, can you guarentee an enemy will die in a certain frame range?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 3/7/2007 6:54 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
wow no response still. Well here's a simulation my friend made, this for scrolling the screen 1 pixel every frame. He used mod's congruence relation with xor. http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p4reC9ZXgslCBM2E6P_6XBQ "the white numbers are the values the switch operation evaluates to on the respective frame. don't worry about the mod columns, they are there because gogle spreadsheet doesn't give me a bitwise Xor, and I am too out of practice to find a concise form. there are 4 sets of initial seeds, that is just 1 of them; each sheet of the spreadsheet has one of the 4 sets of initial values. if you want to add columns, copy the preceding mod and frame column and change the number in the orange box of the mod column: if the preceding frame column had a 4 in it ---> 3 if the preceding frame column had a 3 in it ---> -3 if the preceding frame column had a 1 in it ---> 1 if the preceding frame column had a 2 in it ---> -1" This close friend of mine is leaving for iraq tomorow, please wish him well.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/27/2008 5:19 PM
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finalfighter
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
NES TAS of 2020 Glitchy TAS of 2020 TAS of 2010 NES TAS of 2010 Glitchy TAS of 2010 NES TAS of 2009
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/cutmandamage_re21.avi This idea is 7 frames slower than Mr. Deign's TAS. If you change the position of the magnet beam ,you might decrease time. 1:The bullet is kept by not pushing select button. (Because the bullet has stopped meanwhile when select button is pushed) 2:The position of the rock has been lowered jumping small momentarily at the time of throw out the rock. (To lower locationY of the rock) 3:It seems to be fast twice to throw out the rock. 4:You can avoid suffering from the bullet according to timing.
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:29 PM
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finalfighter
Active player (276)
Joined: 4/20/2004
Posts: 219
Location: Japan,Tokyo
NES TAS of 2020 Glitchy TAS of 2020 TAS of 2010 NES TAS of 2010 Glitchy TAS of 2010 NES TAS of 2009
http://www.yuko2ch.net/rockman/m1oveerflow.avi The overflow technique can be used by the first floor.
Posted: 5/2/2008 10:07 PM
(Edited: 5/3/2008 5:26 PM)
Post subject: Rockman Database
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girfanatic501
Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere
Not sure if someone out on the internet has done this, but here goes! I'm out on a mission. Not just a normal "kill this person" or "get this item" mission. A special mission. A mission to put all Rockman 1-6 bosses, full stages, glitches, and other random Rockman stuff all in one organized database. Now, you may be wondering "How will you determine when to start and stop?" Well, that's next. For stages, The recording will start one frame before the first frame of the stage appears. This is easy for Rockman 2, because before appereing, there appears random glitched sprites from the level. For bosses, the first frame Mega Man starts to scroll upon touching the 2nd wall/door-thing will be the first frame of recording. Easy 'nuff. Glitches.... well, you're on your own there, because glitches can't really become "obsolete" :P. Anyway, I'm working on Rockman 2 stuff now, but anyone who would like to contribute stuff is very welcome to. Have fun! :D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rockman[/size] Elec Man girfanatic501: re-doing
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
Posted: 5/3/2008 12:12 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I don't fully understand what this project is supposed to be. You're making a collection of videos? Or tables of data? Or detailed guides? Are you making your own website to display all this stuff?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 5/3/2008 12:24 AM
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girfanatic501
Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere
Maybe, I don't know. I just thought I'd be a cool idea to showcase TASes of different stages and bosses, and fully exploting all the gliches in all 6 Rockman games.
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
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