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Posted: 8/28/2004 10:08 PM
Post subject: Fighting Game Thread!
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Hey all, here's a general thread to discuss whatever you like about fighting games such as Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, or what have you. To start with, in light of the SF Anniversary Collection coming out soon, I HIGHLY recommend that anyone buying it also picks up the BradyGames strategy guide. They actually hired real players to do both games, and it is quite excellent as a result. The 3rd Strike part even includes frame data for every move of every character! -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 8/28/2004 10:34 PM
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VirtualAlex
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
Wow really? Thats really in depth. I am usually pretty anti guides because you can get it for free on the internet, but a real nice frame data sheet would be really nice to have.
JXQ's biggest fan.
Posted: 8/29/2004 12:57 AM
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Ohman
Joined: 8/11/2004
Posts: 11
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Since I can't come up with something interesting to write, I'll just pin down my favorite fighting games, hopefully with reasons why they're my favorites too. Can't gaurantee anything though ;) Street Fighter II - Always got my ass kicked in it by a friend. And yet I love it. Killer Instinct Gold - Glacius equals buttonmashing goodness. Earlier mentioned friend kicked my ass in it. Tekken 3 - Bryan, Baek, Yoshimitsu... I almost like the whole cast. And the same friend always kicked my ass in this too. Reflecting on my post, I seem to be a masochist when it comes to fighting games ;)
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Posted: 8/29/2004 1:12 AM
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VirtualAlex
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
Hey what are your thoughts on Super Smash Brothers as a fighting game?
JXQ's biggest fan.
Posted: 8/29/2004 2:29 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
smash melee is my second favorite game of all time after FF7. it is easy to pick up, hard to master, very balanced despite every character having completely different playstyles from the next(even the clones), EVERY character is good and is a favorite of some expert player... and so on. Though it may not be a typical fighting game, that's the best part about it. Memorization of combos is important, but not in the form of button sequences, which is exactly how it should be. Though it's a multiplayer game it will be a long long time before you beat everything in single player, and you will have fun the whole time. Just an amazing game
Posted: 8/29/2004 2:33 AM
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Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
I'm still missing 2 trophys ;_;
Posted: 8/29/2004 2:37 AM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
1) Celebi keeps eluding me 2) Diskun- I have just a couple more bonuses to get... including that jerk celebi 3) Crazy Hand- the toughest trophy to get, I haven't tried in awhile though.
Posted: 8/29/2004 2:59 AM
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Ohman
Joined: 8/11/2004
Posts: 11
Location: Luleå, Sweden
I knew I forgot something. SSB and SSB:M. But these I like solely based on gameplay, not by having my ass kicked in 'em.
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Posted: 8/29/2004 3:04 AM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
SSBM is a wicked game, but to me, its not a "real" fighting game. That's just me though. As for SF AC, I'm definitely getting that. I'm gonna buy an Xbox and Xbox LIVE just for that game. Wish they threw Alpha in there too. But the game I'm most looking forward to is GG Isuka. GG series is my favorite 2d fighter, and with 4 player fighting, Isuka's gonna be insane. Am I the only GG fan in here?
Posted: 8/29/2004 3:07 AM
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Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Never heard of GG >_< Probably because I'm not a big fan of fighting games. Which is why I the only one I really like is ssb, because like you said, its not a traditional fighting game.
Posted: 8/29/2004 3:08 AM
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kotetsu213
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 42
Location: Washington, DC
I love SSBM, but I never get to play against anyone good. In fact I think only one time I was beaten, and that was probably 5 years ago in the first SSB. SFA3 is great too, but I can't stand the GBA version because of the controls. Funny/sad thought There are over 100 posts on GameFAQs right now in 1 topic arguing over whether SSBM is a fighting game or not. This prompted me to write the 6 general rules for fighting games. Anyone wanna see them?
Posted: 8/29/2004 3:21 AM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
GG= Guilty Gear. It's like an anime fighting game with high resolution sprites high detailed backgrounds, so it looks even better than SFIII. It has a lot of insane characters, and the gameplay is really good, not just a SF clone. Its sort of like Darkstalkers, except much much better. If you're a fan of anime, then you'll probably love this game.
Posted: 8/29/2004 3:23 AM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
As a Neo Geo owner I am obviously partial towards fighting games. My favorites include KoF 98, Art of Fighting, and Fatal Fury Special. I do not ignore Capcom's great work though, and I am quite partial to the Darkstalkers series which I feel has been underrated by most. So far as I know, they never even released a US version of Vampire Chronicle. Mortal Kombat was huge when I was in high school and I was right there playing it with everyone else. In hindsight, the games weren't so great. As a fighting game fan I am frustrated by current productions. I loathe all 3D fighters which are the only kind game companies seem interested in right now. 2D fighters are not dead but are plagued with recycled sprites and gameplay. Capcom Fighting Jam looks no better than MUGEN (an unauthorized "make-your-own-fighter" for those not in the know). For some reason I can't enjoy the Guilty Gear series as much as it seems I should. I think the gameplay is a bit too manic for my tastes. But I'll take 2D over 3D any day.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 8/29/2004 3:47 AM
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nifboy
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
I consider myself very good at the original SSB, and dabble in SSB:M whenever I get a chance to. The best part is that there are no combinations to memorize to pull off individual moves; you can't screw up Mario's fireball like you can, say, a Hadoken or Sub-Zero's slide move (which to this date I still cannot do). Kotetsu: No, the sad part about it is that the "Is SSBM a fighting game?" discussion has been going on since the original game's release, which is to say years and years and years. I wouldn't be surprised if there have been over 10,000+ posts on GameFAQs dedicated to the subject. And yes, I would be interested in seeing those rules (as I cannot find the topic in question) It's like the "What genre is Zelda?" question. Guilty Gear... can be very cheap. Extraordinarily cheap, in fact. So much so that the first day I ever played the game, using a character I had never seen before (and was explicitly told this was because he sucked), I managed to win several matches in a row (including one with the man who owned the game) by trying out moves until I found one I could spam for the entire match. My streak ended when my friend and I did a ditto match and spammed Potemkin's "Mr. Fantastic" move better than I did.
Posted: 8/29/2004 1:33 PM
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Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
kotetsu213 wrote:
This prompted me to write the 6 general rules for fighting games. Anyone wanna see them?
Generalizations aren't always beneficial. What a lot of people seem to forget is that there were fighting games before Street Fighter 2. SF2 spawned so many clones, that it became the new standard for fighting games. So if something plays a little too differently from SF2, you're going to get people questioning whether it's a fighting game. So how is SSB different from SF2? Special moves require just a button press and sometimes a direction like up or down but no quarter-circle motions. You can have up to four people playing instead of two. You can use the environment to your advantage. Items and weapons randomly appear which you can use. You KO people by knocking them far enough off screen instead of depleting a stamina meter. I don't see anything in those differences that says it can't be a fighting game. The only thing you need to do is differentiate from games like Double Dragon and Final Fight. In those games, the concept was that you are progressing through a level, similar to how Mario does. Except, instead of jumping on enemy's heads, you punch and kick them. The difference lies in level progression. In a beat-'em-up, you're progressing through the level like a platform or shooter game. In a fighting game, you don't have to progress anywhere; you just have to fight the opponent(s) and that's all a "level" is. There is also definitely no player vs. player in a beat-'em-up, where fighting games are partially defined by it.
Posted: 8/29/2004 2:55 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Nice to see other people liking Guilty Gear! XX (or X2, its American name) was the only thing I played for over a year...now I'm waiting for #Reload (ROBO KY WHOOOOOO). I got to play Isuka for awhile when I was at Evolution, and it's pretty much what I expected. Way too broken for competition, but an extremely fun game nonetheless. You know, speaking of Evolution, SSBM was actually supposed to be added to their tournament lineup this year, but they ran into some kind of legal issue with Nintendo at the last minute. This one spawned a HUGE debate much like the "is SSBM a fighting game" one. I say, if Tekken 4 (a.k.a. Jin: The Game) is worthy of inclusion, Smash Bros. definitely should be. feitclub: Cool, another SNK fan! KoF'98, in my mind, is and will always be their finest work. Fatal Fury Special is a personal favorite, along with Last Blade 2 and Samurai Shodown 2. The Real Bout series seems interesting as well, I just haven't figured out how to actually play them yet. I have to disagree with you about 3D fighters. I absolutely love the Virtua Fighter series (perhaps THE most well-crafted for tournament play), and Tekken 5 has me interested. Never really "got" Darkstalkers the way some others do, cool games though. Evidently there still is a tournament scene for Vampire Savior in Japan, the game was included in this year's Super Battle Opera (humongous national tournament sponsored by Arcadia Magazine). Now, to add something of my own here...check out this site for movies showcasing combos for various fighting games. More coming later, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 8/29/2004 4:15 PM
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kotetsu213
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 42
Location: Washington, DC
1. A fighting game must involve at least 2 characters made of offensive and defense boxes, which either the player or the AI can control directly by pressing a button or a sequence of buttons. When an offense box hits a defensive box, the effects are but not limited to damage being dealt. 2. A fighting game must revolve around the concept above. 3. A fighting game must tell the player how much they've damaged their opponent. 4. A fighting game must have a way for the player to reduce or nullify damage when their character's defense boxes are hit by an enemy offense box. 5. If two or more people can play a fighting game at the same time, there must be at least 2 different characters to choose from. 6. Each character in a fighting game must have several different attacks or techniques (aka Moves) to choose from. Well, there they are. SSBM by the way follows all 6 of them.
Posted: 8/29/2004 4:19 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
..and Karate Champ doesn't, despite being a fighting game.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 8/29/2004 4:22 PM
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kotetsu213
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 42
Location: Washington, DC
*goes to get Karate Champ*
Posted: 8/29/2004 4:41 PM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I disagree with rule #4. Yie Ar Kung Fu didn't have blocking. You had to dodge.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 8/29/2004 4:45 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I disagree with #1 and #3. A fighting game need not involve damage. For example, there's a mode in Soul Caliber that is ring-out only. Karate Champ is point-based. There are wrestling games without lifebars. Etc.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 8/29/2004 4:46 PM
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kotetsu213
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 42
Location: Washington, DC
...Okay, you guys are really getting me into some trouble now. I've played Karate Champ so I know about that, now I'm gonna see what Yie Ar Kung Fu is like...
Posted: 8/29/2004 5:42 PM
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Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
I disagree with almost all the rules! First, defining the collision as "boxes" would mean 3D fighting games aren't fighting games. Plus, nothing about that first rule is specific to fighting games. Diablo could be described by what rule #1 states. That throws #2 right out the window. As for #3, you can turn off the life bars in the home version of Street Fighter III: Third Strike. Does the game cease to be a fighting game at that point? That rule does not define anything about fighting games. The fourth and fifth rule seem to just be based off of Street Fighter 2, which had blocking and multiple characters to choose from. However, this does not define the gameplay of a fighting game. It's just a precedent set by Street Fighter 2 that most people follow. The last rule is the only one I can't say anything against because it'd be pretty impossible to make a fighting game with only one move.
Posted: 8/29/2004 6:29 PM
(Edited: 8/29/2004 10:04 PM)
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blip
Joined: 4/11/2004
Posts: 155
Location: Fairfax, VA, USA
There's not much for me to add, except that I too, love fighting games. Here are my favorites, the ones that have special places in my heart:
  • Street Figher II : Hyper Fighting (The all-time classic. This is the first Street Fighter that I devoted a lot of time to).
  • X-Men : Children of the Atom (The first 2d sprite-based game I can remember to have cel animated artwork. It still looks gorgeous even today, nearly ten years later).
  • Vampire Hunter (The underrated sequel to Vampire. Terrific music, visuals, and character design).
  • Mortal Kombat 2 (Ok, kind of a silly game. But I have fond memories of playing it competitively in my local arcade).
  • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles : Tournament Fighters (A surprisingly fun and solid fighting game. Good soundtrack, too).
  • X-Men vs. Street Fighter (Total spazzfest, and a great way to unwind).
  • Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
  • Street Fighter Zero 3 (My pick for the best fighting game of all time. This game has had simply amazing longevity, and the gameplay is still evolving).
  • Samurai Shodown 2 & 4 (Somehow I missed-out on 3).
  • Guily Gear XX #Reload (Amazing game balance, lots of fun to play).
There's a sad lack of SNK games on this list. I've never owned a NeoGeo :(
Posted: 8/29/2004 7:23 PM
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NrgSpoon
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
The only fighting games that ever really grabbed my interest were Virtua Fighter 2, Smash Bros and Melee, and the Gamecube Naruto fighting games. edit: And WAKU WAKU 7
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
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