Let's say you were a developer of a game and you wanted to make it enjoyable to make a TAS of the game - to the extent that the game engine would have a built-in TAS mode (handling frame-stepping, savestates, etc. internally). Given this, what engine mechanics and gameplay features would make the game most worthwhile to TAS?
(I've already decided that any console games I make with a heavy amount of text/cutscenes will have a "hidden" speedrun mode that allows any text and cutscenes to be skipped, in addition to having a definitive game timer that shows both real and gameplay time. Perhaps some easter eggs for detected sequence breaks, or even stuff "left in" the game with no known means of access at ship time...)
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It should have places that can be done effectively ony using frame perfect movement between two events, and if even one frame is lost somewhere, result in big time loss. There were such places in GBA kirby Amazing mirror very first level and some kururin levels )
Lots and lots of statistics. For example, if this were a Mario game, record not only the time completed but also things like score total from the level, amount of coins collected, whether you picked up all the big coins, how high you hit the flagpole at the end... those kinds of things. This would allow for much TAS replayability.
Have special unlockable levels to test your knowledge of the engine (like AIR)
Absolutely no complicated pseudo-randomness. Luck should be easy to manipulate from any point.
I've already decided that any console games I make with a heavy amount of text/cutscenes will have a "hidden" speedrun mode that allows any text and cutscenes to be skipped
IMO skipping cutscenes is only desirable for the person making the speedrun (tool-assisted or not), and perhaps for people who have played the game 10 times over.
In my experience the best speedruns (the regular ones, made of newer PC or console games) to watch are those of games where cutscenes cannot be skipped, and this regardless of whether I have played the game or not. For example the Prince of Persia sands trilogy is excellent for this purpose because in these games the cutscenes cannot be skipped, making the story whole and complete, which makes it enjoyable to view. I have played all three games through, but I still liked to watch the entire speedruns, cutscenes and all.
Speedruns of those games where cutscenes can be skipped are a bit annoying because the story suffers. It's especially annoying when I have not played the game.
Perhaps some easter eggs for detected sequence breaks, or even stuff "left in" the game with no known means of access at ship time...)
That's awesome. Every developer ought to know by now that the fun of gaming is not jumping through predefined hoops, but slipping through those prison-cell bars. :)
Given this, what engine mechanics and gameplay features would make the game most worthwhile to TAS?
Personally, I like choreographing fights. Give the player situations that would be nearly impossible to do in realtime, like recreating the "Neo vs 100 agents" fight from Matrix Reloaded.
The key would be giving the player a broad range of attacks, sufficiently raising the complexity to the point where TAS-tools are able to exploit the engine where player's lack of reflexes and wit tend to fail.
All interesting thoughts. What about range of play (admittedly, more a factor of game type than design choices within a genre)? That is, get-to-the-end-of -the-level-as-fast-as-you-can or find-and-capture-the-n-sacred-foos-in-a-vast-world sort of gameplay?
One of my future game designs uses an essentially-infinite procedurally generated world that can be freely explored - this doesn't seem readily TASable to me, as there will be far more discovering of hidden stuff by players in general than by TASers. On the other hand, another idea is for a sort of racing game where the only control input is a single button - think the grinding minigame in the GBA Kirby games, but with physics and interesting levels. This seems like it'd run out of "TAS explorability" rather quickly, like SMB1 did. Ideally, IMO, a game would be complex enough to have a lot of potential improvements, but simple enough in its mechanics to be sure that a given tactic is fairly optimal. In 2D games there is generally one "forward" direction and so improvements are easy to measure. 3D games seem much more difficult in this regard.
EDIT: In general, I'm getting the following trends of opinion so far: A TAS-friendly game is one that has a dramatic (not necessarily large, but dramatic) difference in TAS vs. realtime play, one that affords a lot of "art" in both the pursuit and execution of the strategy, and offers many clear "goal opportunities" for pursuing(all stages/minimal stages/100% collection/never uses primary weapon/etc.) King's Bounty and Monopoly exemplify the first goal to an absurd degree. OoT I think demonstrates the second quite well. The Castlevania games that offer replays with alternative characters seem like good candidates for the third.
the possibility for the character to go at extreme speeds, needing inhuman reflexes and control. a speedrun would have to be played carefully, but a TAS would show godly control. think about sonic.
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Make seems-to-work code and ignore the borderline cases that are unlikely to be found in normal playing.
In case of the character getting stuck because of collision checking, zip them away (like in Rockman) or teleport away entirely (like in Postal²).
Add as many tools as possible to accomplish a given task. As fine-grained controls as possible. Add daring almost impossible-looking routes to alternatives to the routes a normal player would choose, but make them slightly shorter so that they will be utilized.
Make the game beautiful to watch. Avoid monotony, also avoid a tasteless circus of colours. Keep the themes interesting, so that it looks like there's a purpose in all instead of just randomly generated puzzles.
Promote the usage of intelligence. Create tasks that require intelligent decisions that aren't just a matter of remembering the cues (walk to X, flip switch, walk to Y, drop sausage, walk to Z, open door, wait for dog to eat sausage, eat dog, flip switch again, ...).
Avoid arbitrary limits. Let the player be the limiter. Applies especially to speed issues.
Also, I'm opposed to the cutscene skipping. It's nice to be able to skip them when you're playing the game the 10th time, but when watching a recorded speedrun, it's nice if you cannot skip them, so that the audience who wishes to see them, will see them (and those who don't want, can just fast-forward the video).
Oh, and yeah, handle "this is not supposed to happen" situations in a funny way, like mr. dk64capslock showed for example.
Leave huge room for manipulation; Ideally, one will be able to manipulate a walking speed well over three times the normal average speed.
Insert a bug/feature that allows one to manipulate any one memory address within a certain range. This will require careful planning, as it can only be performed once.
Have different cutscenes in the final level if one finishes the game quickly enough (as in, at reserved-for-TAS speeds). This would be entertaining (because the viewer has never seen them before) as well as faster (because these cutscenes are 10 seconds shorter).
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I have actually always wanted to see the TAS of a game where there's no upper speed limit. I believe no such game exists (at least not for the older consoles)?
I have actually always wanted to see the TAS of a game where there's no upper speed limit. I believe no such game exists (at least not for the older consoles)?
Joined: 11/17/2005
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DrJones wrote:
Warp wrote:
I have actually always wanted to see the TAS of a game where there's no upper speed limit. I believe no such game exists (at least not for the older consoles)?
Sonic 3 & Knuckles has pretty much everything needed for it.
As for some shooting action, think Super Metroid: Redesign (minus door transitions and other waiting scenes, minus the long escape sequence, minus all the luck manipulation problems).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I have actually always wanted to see the TAS of a game where there's no upper speed limit. I believe no such game exists (at least not for the older consoles)?
Was possible Sonic Advance 2 with air dash abuse IIRC.
What would be interesting would be a game where you're some kind of ninja sidescroller and you have a mario-like running speed. When you jump, you do a front flip. You can swing a sword at an enemy while jumping. If you miss the enemy you fall flat on your face. But if you hit them in the exact right place (exact as in, no margin of error whatsoever) you go forward at 2X the speed you were at. And if you hit a 2nd enemy, you'll go to 4 times the normal running speed. THAT would be a cool TAS. Oh, and you can throw those little ninja stars while doing the jump, so the TAS could kill basically everything on the map.
Bosses would be just obstacles at the end of the level that you can run past, but if you do they kill you from behind (Think of Bowser in Mario Bros., but you can't go past him without killing him or you die.) You could kill the bosses by doing a sword-jump while throwing a profusion of ninja stars.
Oh, and with the exception of a couple levels, the enemies would be synched so you could jump at one point and fly forward, swordslashing contantly to get 2X, 4X, 8X, 16X, 32X, 64X your speed!
There would also be a level where you have to kill 100 enemies, or some number like that, and they spawn from the side of the screen when you kill another one. This would be like the Mario 3 TAS, that level with all the cannonballs that he jumps on.
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NMcCoy wrote:
(I've already decided that any console games I make with a heavy amount of text/cutscenes will have a "hidden" speedrun mode that allows any text and cutscenes to be skipped, in addition to having a definitive game timer that shows both real and gameplay time. Perhaps some easter eggs for detected sequence breaks, or even stuff "left in" the game with no known means of access at ship time...)
No need to make it hidden. Look at Twilight Princess (at least the Wii version): press - twice to skip any cutscene. Any.
