This is a 2 Player River city ransom run. ~50 seconds faster than the current run by Sleepz done on famtasia. This movie distributes a glitch and uses it to its fullest.
What got me to attempt this run is noticing that you can skip Moose and still be able to enter the school.
The glitch was discovered by Nitsuja. While trying to run and holding the opposite direction, weird things happen. Such as death. I use this to Eliminate lag where it is necessary, like rooms when I don't have to fight.
I also use this Glitch to go through a wall.
I lose many frames by picking 2 player due to Lag. I lose alot at the Twin fight for example, because of 4 characters on screen at once.
-Sacrifices speed for entertainment
- Aims for Entertainment
- 1 Player controls 2 Players
Thanks to:
- nesrocks for telling me about skipping the Moose.
- Nitsuja for discovering the Left+Right Glitch
- Adelikat & Maximus for nagging me to finish this all the time.
- and the rest who encouraged me to finish this.
Truncated: Many people have been opposed to this version obsoleting our old one. I went back and rewatched the old run and could only agree.
The old run has much more variety, never stands still when people are lying down but sets up a combo, makes enemies hit each other (or themselves), a cool multiple jumpkick combo, and the everpresent Trashcan of Judgement.
This run has some cool tricks too: dying for no reason, throwing the other over the wall, using the other player as a weapon.
A new movie which combines the best of these two runs would be very publishable. Don't be afraid to sacrifice more time for cool tricks.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Wow, I've never seen this much difference of opinion over a 10%+ time improvement. Discussion is great, and I'm glad everyone is voicing their views in a detailed and (mostly) calm manner. Thanks everyone for not being like some other forums.
Wow, I've never seen this much difference of opinion over a 10%+ time improvement.
That's because time wasn't the primary goal in either of the runs. Moreover, if you improve a run like that of Mortal Kombat II by 50% of its time (which is very possible), it'll be rejected instantly.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
That's because time wasn't the primary goal in any of those two runs. Moreover, if you improve a run like that of Mortal Kombat II by 50% of its time (which is very possible), it'll be rejected instantly.
From the above statement, it almost sounds like runs are judged differently based on what the community perceives to be the ultimate objective of a run. If the objective is style, then even if this run was 2 minutes using mad glitches, everyone would vote no since it's not as "entertaining" as its predecessor.
As a result, does this mean that some runs will never be obsoleted? Or could they be obsoleted by longer runs that are even more "entertaining". I'm not trying to be facetious, but pose a simple question of "can a game have two runs, one for speed, one for fun?" Is this where concept demos come into play?
Vatchern did a good job of beating the existing run based purely on speed. This, IMO, merits a yes vote. However, if we were only comparing stylistic decisions, I'd vote no. My Strider run beats the current wip by 20 minutes, but it may not be all that exciting. Should both exist? (weak point I know, and shameless plug I know as well :P)
Games that progress very linearly, but have a plethora of different "moves" can be made any number of ways (Street Fighter for example). Some may be more fun to watch than others, but may not appeal to those who would only vote on a pure "speed"-run (Zangief doing that spinning pile-driver thing on everybody).
Just my two cents (1.7027 cents USD)
From the above statement, it almost sounds like runs are judged differently based on what the community perceives to be the ultimate objective of a run.
Maximus, you weren't reading either what I wrote, or what both Vatchern and Sleepz stated as their primary goals. For the record, both of them aimed for maximum entertainment and traded speed for it accordingly, so likewise, a newer run should obsolete the preceding if it surpasses it in achieving the stated goal. Which, sadly, did not happen. If both aimed primarily for speed, accepting Vatchern's improvement would be a no-brainer.
As for my example with Mortal Kombat, does the fact that the current version is 17:55, and the version it obsoletes 12:22, tells you anything? It's basically the same story. If both goals can't be achieved without hurting each other, the author should make a preference, and they have made it. Simple as that.
Maximus wrote:
As a result, does this mean that some runs will never be obsoleted?
It's not impossible, but Gradius is a good counterexample. It was kept there for stylistic reasons exclusively, and adelikat did a good job in both surpassing Morimoto in style and doing that without losing time.
Maximus wrote:
Or could they be obsoleted by longer runs that are even more "entertaining".
See the example with MKII.
Maximus wrote:
I'm not trying to be facetious, but pose a simple question of "can a game have two runs, one for speed, one for fun?" Is this where concept demos come into play?
If the one that is "for speed" is much less entertaining than the one "for fun", then it's most likely that the vast majority would prefer the latter due to obvious reasons.
Maximus wrote:
My Strider run beats the current wip by 20 minutes, but it may not be all that exciting. Should both exist?
I haven't watched the long version, but in my opinion based on what I've seen so far, Strider is an example of a game that is better done in less time as possible (unless there are some very entertaining things going on in the long version that I don't know about).
EDIT: grammar.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
the fact is that even though this run "trades speed for entertainment" it's still quite faster than the old one. So all he has to do is add in a some variety and it will be a great run that ALSO beats the old one in speed.
The write-up for this run is "trades speed for entertainment". I see the speed, but less so the entertainment. While some parts were especially amusing, watching the bosses getting jumped and beaten senseless with random objects while standing in place time and again is not. Aside from an exception or two, there wasn't much of anything that really showed what the protagonists could do.
Although slower and running on an obsoleted emulator, I think the old run did a better job of showcasing the game. That said, this TAS gets a no vote from me.
I heard much of this game but i had never seen it until now. I did not think the other one deserved a star and neither does this one but it is faster so i vote yes.
Joined: 12/2/2005
Posts: 139
Location: New York, United States
Zurreco wrote:
jaysmad wrote:
but it is faster so i vote yes.
Submission Text wrote:
- Aims for Entertainment
Seriously, this has been brought up multiple times in the thread.
That goal doesn't really make much sense to me sometimes, as most of the entertainment from these movies comes from the speed in which they were beaten.
What's a man like me supposed to do with all this extra savoir-faire?
Seriously, this has been brought up multiple times in the thread.
Well, i was quite entertained! The "walk through the wall" glitch was impressive, the way he eliminates lag was in my opinion "nice" and the fact that he finishes the game 50 seconds faster got me entertained But i would change the submission text for "aims for fastest time" of course.
"MAYBE" the fights could be faster... Or better in an entertaining kind of way.
Sorry i did not mention this earlier :)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
I'm giving this a yes. I didn't find it entertaining, but on the other hand, I didn't find the other one entertaining either, so, the shorter the better in this case :/
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
The original river city random is a movie I use when I try to explain the entire TAS community to them. After seeing this one and also the excitebike TAS, they start to understand why I watch a great deal of these TASes.
That being said, although this movie is much faster than the original, if I could vote I would vote no. The entertainment value of some of the original moves are entertaining to the point where many viewers have gone WTF! Some of them have joined me in my lurking enjoyment of these movies.
Technically speaking, this movie may be superior to that of the famtasia one but stylistically I much prefer the previous one.
I havet watched this run, so I won't comment. But as far as entertainment due to variety is concerned, maybe someone should run the GBA remake of this game, which has about three times as many "normal" moves.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Just watched it and I can't see good reasons it has been rejected. Yes, it could be better but it's not less entertaining than Sleepz's run. Sorry but I think some people expectations are too high. Still voted yes...
I think it's less entertaining, because the people just stand there and whack the enemies. Compare it to my test runs, which have much more running around, and are 15% faster.
I understand that alot of people find it less entertaining. Since this site is basically a "art show" to entertain the audience with how creative your movie is, and in what way is it creative.
My art form was just to literally beat up the boss's which I find entertaining, which is why I made it. It took on a totally different approach to the game than what Sleepz did. Also used 2P with strange glitches.
Evidently no one else found that entertaining. What's really good is to run around and getting big comboes. Lots of people are entertained by different things.
Like my JP3 run that only I liked.
