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Posted: 2/16/2007 8:39 PM
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dezbeast
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I'm not too thrilled about doing that much of the dungeon over again, so I timed going both ways, and to my surpise, they both wound up being almost exactly the same. So I'll keep what I got. You'll get another WIP pretty soon.
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:23 PM
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Tompa
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Hmm, that's interesting actually... I was quite sure that it was faster the other way. Oh well.
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:46 PM
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dezbeast
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If it is faster, it's only by a fraction of a second.
Posted: 2/16/2007 9:49 PM
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Tompa
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If my other route is faster, you could do like this to get the bombs without losing time: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3908/Boss.vbm
Posted: 2/16/2007 10:49 PM
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dezbeast
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Ok I just beat the boss. I may have to grab that heart container since I don't have the sword equipped to manipulate. What should I do? http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3909/level2cleared.vbm
Posted: 2/16/2007 11:23 PM
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Tompa
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I now realize how big pain it must have been to manipulate perfect setups... My first thoughts: How much faster is it to use S&Q after you've taken the first key? Can't be by many frames... Wouldn't it be faster to S&Q after the third key as well? The one at the many bombable blocks... Haha, loved how you used the pitglitch before pushing the "roller thingy" ^^. Very nice boss fight, perfect! About taking the heart... Hmm. You can manipulate some places with only pressing u/d/l/r buttons. Didn't do any testing or so, but I got a different enemy set up anyway... Or else it might be that I went longer in one screen until I switched to the other one. But I don't think it would be neccesary to get the heart container. That would be if you could save some time with damage boosting. But I don't know, hmm...
Posted: 2/17/2007 2:02 PM
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dezbeast
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I actually tested to see if save warping was faster after getting the first key, and it was faster by about a second. And after getting the third key, save warping brings you back to the beginning of the whole dungeon. So I doubt it's faster. Vespa and I even discussed this. Ok, I shall try to play on without grabbing the heart container and see what happens. BTW, I save more time taking all that damage than I waste grabbing the heart container at the end.
Posted: 2/19/2007 4:33 PM
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Vespa
Joined: 7/28/2006
Posts: 61
I just made it to the boss of level 2. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3968/OoATAS.vbm I decided to post a WIP now because the boss may take me awhile to beat. The only thing I don't like is the enemy set up in the room where you get the first key, but that was the BEST set up I could get unless I slashed like 25+ times.
Posted: 2/19/2007 11:50 PM
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Speed_Man
Joined: 11/1/2006
Posts: 95
Good damn luck with the god-forsaken piece of garbage mini-game "Goron Dancing" <_<
Posted: 2/20/2007 12:08 AM
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Tompa
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Looks good, nice job. Have two things to mention however When you bomb the wall to get the second key, was it possible to manipulate the enemies while going the train instead of after the room? I presume you tried this, manipulating enemies sucks in this game. Just before the boss room. If you jump into the big key door, you can open it earlier, saves some time and you don't really need to remake anything=P. Nice job. Am glad to finally see a new Wip from ya! Keep it up. The boss is quite simple really. You only need to time the bomb drops and jump around to make it entertaining :). I think you shall take the heart container actually... You might damage boost a lot, and it'll only cause you to lose ½-1 second. But do you think...?
Posted: 2/20/2007 1:17 AM
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Vespa
Joined: 7/28/2006
Posts: 61
When you bomb the wall to get the second key, was it possible to manipulate the enemies while going the train instead of after the room?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I did manipulate on the cart, I just had to slash again on the ground to charge my sword up. And what do you mean by after the room?
I think you shall take the heart container actually... You might damage boost a lot, and it'll only cause you to lose ½-1 second. But do you think...?
Hmm, I might just do that. 1/2 sec is only 30 frames plus it refills my hearts. That's assuming it does take 30 frames though. I'll have to check out how many frames it actually wastes.
Nice job. Am glad to finally see a new Wip from ya! Keep it up.
Thanks :)
Posted: 2/20/2007 8:20 AM
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Tompa
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You use turbo with the sword, so it took you a few frames extra to charge you sword, isn't it?=) I meant after the room with the bombable wall, instead of inside the room with the key.
Posted: 2/20/2007 8:26 PM
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Vespa
Joined: 7/28/2006
Posts: 61
Oh yeah, I had to manipulate the enemies movement so I could kill them with one spin attack. You have to slash in the room to manipulate behavior, if you slash before the room you'll just change the set up.
Posted: 3/2/2007 10:51 PM
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dezbeast
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I played all the way to the enemies that come out of the holes. I have to take damage to get past them. There's no way to dodge them without wasting time. So it seems I have no other choice but to grab that heart container. I only lose 75 frames by doing that.
Posted: 3/3/2007 1:52 AM
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Tompa
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Sure you couldn't get any hearts from the bushes or the "snow"? Oh well, I guess you could have soe use of the heart later anyway... So go ahead:).
Posted: 3/3/2007 2:07 AM
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dezbeast
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Unfortunately, none of the bushes or snow dropped hearts or fairys. However when I equipped the sword, I was able to manipulate a heart from the bottom bush outside the level. But I couldn't get a fairy no matter how many times I slashed the sword.
Posted: 3/3/2007 2:10 AM
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Tompa
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Btw... You are using Ricky to jump through the snow, correct? I've mentioned it before, just wanted to remind you.
Posted: 3/3/2007 2:41 AM
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dezbeast
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Yes I was, but I still must take damage.
Posted: 3/3/2007 2:53 PM
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dezbeast
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You know what, Tompa. It turns out that the other route in Dungeon 2 is faster by about 20 frames. Since you showed me a way to get the extra bombs at the boss without wasting time, I'm thinking of redoing that part of the level over again. What do you think?
Posted: 3/3/2007 2:55 PM
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Tompa
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If it isn't much of a problem to redo it... You can always hex edit, if it's possible, that will save you some pain. There is after all not a huge improvement. So it's up to you=P.
Posted: 3/3/2007 11:40 PM
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dezbeast
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I didn't realize this, but I need at least 2 bombs. One for the boss to swallow and one for the plant to get a bomb refill. I only have one bomb. Since it cost some frames to get a bomb refill from one of the pots, I'll keep what I got going the route with the easy bomb refills.
Posted: 3/4/2007 12:10 AM
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Tompa
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That's why I mentioned in the first place that you should have manipulated the mini boss to drop some enemies for you to kill to obtain more bombs. I had thought everyone through quite clear:). Don't care about those 20 frames, just continue. It's no big deal...
Posted: 3/9/2007 5:37 PM
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dezbeast
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One question, Tompa. Do you believe it would be faster to pit glitch over the holes and wait until the first cliff to summon Ricky. I noticed by doing that, I could skip the text where he talks about jumping over the holes. And plus it seems that walking is a little faster then riding Ricky. What do you think?
Posted: 3/9/2007 11:36 PM
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Tompa
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E_alert did some calculates about the movement speed with and without the animals. "For general travel, Moosh walks and flies at the same speed as Link's walking. Dimitri swims at Link's walking speed (though faster than both of Link's swimming methods), but walks on land slower than Link. Ricky walks fastest, but Link's running is still faster than that. " The text takes mostly 1-1½ seconds to skip. So I really doubt it will be worth it... Just jump off when taking the pegasus boots, that's the best.
Posted: 3/16/2007 1:27 AM
(Edited: 3/16/2007 2:04 AM)
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e_alert
Joined: 10/31/2006
Posts: 24
Whee. Just checking in. With a combination of christmas, twilight princess and my computer breaking down, I haven't had any time at all to do anything in the realm of speed running, so yeah, forgive my inactivity. It's good to see these games are still being worked on. :) *scurries off to read what he missed of this thread*
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