Post by Bladegash

Posted: 8/23/2004 8:33 PM

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Phil

Active player (410)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

kotetsu213 wrote:

Evade does nothing on the original FF6, instead, MBlock is the stat that lets you evade physical and magic attacks. If it's at 128, everything the monsters do to you will miss if they don't use "Ignore Evade" attacks. I think the PSX version fixes this, and there's also a patch for the SNES ROM.

True btw I was totally wrong for Stamina. Someone(Me) can do an error sometimes.

Posted: 8/23/2004 11:09 PM

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Jyzero

Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 213
Location: MontrÃ©al, QuÃ©bec

About stats : Hit success is a funtion of the battle timer. So if I delay an action by one frame, it could make the difference between getting hit, evading and getting a critical hit. But the characters starts with low MBlock. It's just insane to exploit rerecording here. Let's say that I have 5% chance of blocking a hit, it means that I could retry up to 20 times before the attack miss. But if there is 3 enemies attacking me ,it means that there is 5%*5%*5% chance of not getting hit at all. I plan to exploit MBlock just later in the game, as soon as I can do the sketck glicht to work. With 2 illuminas and gengi gloves , I get maybe +100 MBlock (If stats bonus stacks with gengi gloves). Speed will be an important stat too. The sooner I attack, the sooner the battle ends. Runnings shoes will be important too. I still don't know if I should make the detour to get them before Mt Kolts (not sure if the chest is accessible at this point of the game) HP is important early because of the low level. But once I get high MBlock, HP will be useless.

Posted: 8/23/2004 11:19 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

i assume youre trying to get mog ASAP so that you can also get the moogle charm's abilities ASAP? that would also mean that you would need to learn the [sand dance] and [snow dance] (names allude me. i think theyre snowman jazz and something else) so that mog isnt just a ward for fights. what team would you be using when not glitching? sabin, edgar, mog, gau/cyan right? if you have shadow with you, you could attempt to call out interctepter every turn, but the sheer randomness of that would make it not worth the efforts.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 8/24/2004 12:51 AM

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Jyzero

Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 213
Location: MontrÃ©al, QuÃ©bec

I don't think I can get Moogle Charm in WOB I'm getting Mog in WOB because he has around +5 level bonus when joining and because he has instant death dances. If I didn't want to use glitch, I would have tried a real speedrun on console. It's the manipulation of the sketch glitch that motivates me. I could do it without recording a movie, but between this and using a save ram editor the result would be the same.

Posted: 8/24/2004 12:36 PM

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nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

Jyzero wrote:

Bad news : No luck with manipulation of random encounter rate yet.

anybody knows how they program the ramdom battle encounters? do you think it could work like in zelda 2 where the enemies are really wandering around, but here they would just be invisible? maybe you can find a 100% transparent sprite using a rom sprite hack, put some color on it and then be able to see the map mosters? i don't think hacking the rom sprite would desynch the movie. if you are lucky to find that sprite it could be a big help, huh?

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 8/24/2004 1:14 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

>anybody knows how they program the ramdom battle encounters? Though I am not certain how it works in FFIII, I know how it works in FF1. Every time you enter/exit (don't know which) a battle, a counter is set to a random number (within some limit, probably). This counter is decreased every time you take a step on a potentially hostile tile. When the counter reaches zero battle starts. Thus, the only way to fiddle with the random battles would be either to play around differently right before battle starts, or right before battle ends. From what Jyzero tells us, it sounds like it works the same way in FFIII. The counter position, as well as when it changes (before or after battle) shouldn't be too hard to figure out for the hackers here. It could then be peeked while playing so that you always get the biggest/smallest possible value, whichever you want.

Posted: 8/24/2004 1:28 PM

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SprintGod

Former player

Joined: 5/20/2004
Posts: 118
Location: Over there!

From the Algorithms FAQ at GameFAQs:

The game keeps a counter that increases each time you take a step. Walking on the overworld map adds 192 to the counter for each step taken; walking in caves, towns, etc. where monsters can be encountered adds 112 to the counter for each step. Each step, a random number is picked from 0 to 255; if this number is less than (counter / 256 ) then a fight occurs. When a random encounter occurs, the counter is reset to 0. If the lead party member has a Charm Bangle equipped, then the number added is cut in half. If Mog has the Moogle Charm equipped, then the counter is not increased, and there is no chance of random encounters.

It seems that the 'random' number is a function of Steps, though. This would explain why you can't manipulate encounters.

Blah!

Posted: 8/24/2004 3:17 PM

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Bob_Whoops

Former player

Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA

Thats seems rather off. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I see it: The average number picked will be 128. Thus, (counter/256) must be less than 128 to do a battle (on average) So, counter/256<128 Multiply both sides to get counter < 32768 Lets say that we are on the overworld. In which case, counter=steps*192 Substitue this in the original equation and you get steps*192<32768 or steps < 170.6... So, this is saying that average number of steps for a battle needed is 170.6... I haven't played the game in a while, but this seems way off.

Posted: 8/24/2004 3:20 PM
(Edited: 8/24/2004 3:54 PM)

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SprintGod

Former player

Joined: 5/20/2004
Posts: 118
Location: Over there!

It's not way off, your maths are, give me a moment to do a few calculations... --- Edit: Calculations complete

STEPS  C     C/256  %NB      %CUMULATIVE
 1      192      0  100.00%  100.00%
 2      384      1   99.61%   99.61%
 3      576      2   99.22%   98.83%
 4      768      3   98.83%   97.67%
 5      960      3   98.83%   96.53%
 6     1152      4   98.44%   95.02%
 7     1344      5   98.05%   93.16%
 8     1536      6   97.66%   90.98%
 9     1728      6   97.66%   88.85%
10     1920      7   97.27%   86.42%
11     2112      8   96.88%   83.72%
12     2304      9   96.48%   80.78%
13     2496      9   96.48%   77.94%
14     2688     10   96.09%   74.89%
15     2880     11   95.70%   71.67%
16     3072     12   95.31%   68.31%
17     3264     12   95.31%   65.11%
18     3456     13   94.92%   61.80%
19     3648     14   94.53%   58.42%
20     3840     15   94.14%   55.00%
21     4032     15   94.14%   51.78%
22     4224     16   93.75%   48.54%
23     4416     17   93.36%   45.32%
24     4608     18   92.97%   42.13%
25     4800     18   92.97%   39.17%
26     4992     19   92.58%   36.26%
27     5184     20   92.19%   33.43%
28     5376     21   91.80%   30.69%
29     5568     21   91.80%   28.17%
30     5760     22   91.41%   25.75%

STEPS:       number of steps since the last battle
C:           The counter
C/256:       The counter integer divided by 256
%NB:         The chance of not getting a battle for an individual step
%CUMULATIVE: The chance of not getting a battle for that step, and all previous steps as well

So when on the World Map, you'll usually have around 21-22 steps between battles.

Blah!

Posted: 8/24/2004 3:39 PM
(Edited: 8/24/2004 3:56 PM)

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Bob_Whoops

Former player

Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA

My math is not flawless :( So THATS what I was missing. I forgot that it was cumulative. >_<

Posted: 8/24/2004 3:54 PM
(Edited: 8/24/2004 3:58 PM)

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SprintGod

Former player

Joined: 5/20/2004
Posts: 118
Location: Over there!

No it's not :) Read my last post Edit in response to Bob's edit: A winner is me!!

Blah!

Posted: 8/24/2004 3:58 PM

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Seppel

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 29

You're half correct there, Bob, but your problem is the "average number will be picked" part. That actually means that the max number of steps you can take without a battle is 170.6. One randomly selected 0 or 1 and you've got a battle on the next step. EDIT: AND I'M BEATEN TO THE CHASE

~Seppel

Posted: 8/25/2004 12:58 AM
(Edited: 8/25/2004 12:49 PM)

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

I made an excel chart with using the formula for random encounters under four conditions. I got a cumulative percentage of about 50% at these step values. That means half of the time you'll walk further, and half of the time you'll walk shorter than these distances.: Grass Overworld (No Charm Bangle) - 31-32 steps Grass Overworld (Charm Bangle) - 43-44 steps Desert/Forest overworld (No Charm Bangle) - 22-23 steps Desert/Forest overworld (Charm Bangle) - 31-32 steps In a dungeon/elsewhere (No Bangle) - 28-29 steps In a dungeon/elsewhere (Charm Bangle) - 40-41 steps First Dungeon (No Bangle) - 37-38 steps First Dungeon (You can't have the bangle! :) ) - 53-54 steps I got a cumulative percentage of 25% at these step values. That means you have a 1 in 4 chance of making this far without getting into a fight. It may be possible to consistantly get these distances with an emulator, but it would be very trying to pull it off every single time. - Grass OW No Bangle- 43-44 steps Grass OW Bangle- 61-62 steps Forest OW No bangle - 30-31 steps Forest OW Bangle - 43-44 steps Dun No bangle - 40-41 steps Dun Bangle - 57-58 steps 1st Dun No Bangle - 57-58 steps 1st Dun Bangle - 75-76 steps The charm bangle is sweet. It lets you go about 30-45% further between fights, so its something worth getting, if the moogle charm can't be grabbed early enough. It's also going to be handy for split up parties. I only was one step off from you, SprintGod. It looks like you rounded off a little, so the answer I got looks reasonable. I have one question. In Kefka's tower, does the counter reset to zero after you fight a miniboss? It may be worth stopping one team just a tile short of a fight, then send in another team to finish off a boss, and continue moving on. *Edit* Added the other values for different environments. Crap! I forgot that the value for (counter/256) becomes a byte. It must be an integer from 0-255, and I was calculating it as a decimal. Hmm... If the game rounds in your favor, you should be averaging an extra 1-2 steps. If the game rounds against you, you should lose a step or two. If the game rounds half/half, it should be about the same. Nothing major, I guess. *Edit*

Posted: 8/25/2004 2:27 AM

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SprintGod

Former player

Joined: 5/20/2004
Posts: 118
Location: Over there!

My chart shows the chance of making it a given distance without entering a random battle, and therefore doesn't include the step that triggers a battle. I just forgot to add 1 when looking up the numbers. As for bosses, I'm unsure. Give me a few minutes and I'll find out... --- Edit: whoops, got distracted, anyways... Whelk doesn't reset the counter, so I assume that all other non-random battles don't either. Also, I just remembered that the Algorithms FAQ used to give different increment values for each terrain, but these have inexplicably disappeared (despite being apparently correct...). Anyways... here they are:

Grass           96
Desert/Forest  192
Elsewhere      112

The first screen of the first cave seems to be an exception. It adds 64 instead of 112.

Blah!

Posted: 8/25/2004 12:54 PM

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

Well, Sprintgod, I feloniously stole your values, and put them in the excel chart I made. I edited the extra results into the chart above. I forgot that the game doesn't keep track of (counter/256) as a decimal. It uses a byte, so the number will get rounded off somehow. I don't know if it'll put the encounters in the player's favor, or not. The rounding error will only be worth 1-3 steps, I hope. But, it would be nice to know more precisely when to expect a fight.

Posted: 9/19/2004 7:08 AM

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julianch

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 143
Location: Valencia, Spain

sabin blitz can take a lot of damage without wasting magic points

I am a Mega Man fan that hates Megaman X8.

Posted: 9/21/2004 1:00 PM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

Hmm.. If someone has a genji glove and offer ring (is that right? Haven't played the game in a couple of years.) Can Gogo mimic those 8 hits or will he just do one single hit? Would probably take some time to get Gogo though. And by that time, maby you've already finished the game? Anyways.. How is it going? Would be nice to see some more updates. :)

Posted: 9/21/2004 1:10 PM

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Phil

Active player (410)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

I don't think it's worth taking the detour to have GoGo in the party since he is not enough powerful. I wonder where that time attack is. It took me a couple of hours for LoZ so there's a high possibility he is in the world of balance.

Posted: 9/21/2004 1:17 PM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

Ok.. But can Gogo mimic the 8-hit or will he just make one? Oh.. And sorry if I offend people by saying that Gogo is a he. We really don't know anyways, do we? =)

Posted: 9/21/2004 1:20 PM

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Phil

Active player (410)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

Highness wrote:

Ok.. But can Gogo mimic the 8-hit or will he just make one? Oh.. And sorry if I offend people by saying that Gogo is a he. We really don't know anyways, do we? =)

I think yes but I'm not sure myself. Maybe we should call Gogo "IT" ;).

Posted: 9/21/2004 2:25 PM

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