Post by Vatchern

Posted: 4/27/2007 1:19 AM

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Lots of swastikas? Just a guess.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 4/27/2007 1:20 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Maximus wrote:

Just outta curiosity (and I don't want to derail this thread too much), what would constitute a "stylish" run? Vatchern's run got shot down pretty hard, even though it was faster, because it apparently lacked the style that Sleepz' run had.

It is inarguable that Vatchern's run sacrificed variety for speed, and RCR isn't impressive under such conditions, not to mention that there are not too many opportunities for a good fight (I can only remember three). Sleep showcases very good combos, juggling and using the pickup items. With two players, there's even more potential for entertaining fights, with each player beating and exchanging the foes, or juggling a single enemy. It only takes a creative mind to unleash the entertainment potential of this game (I'm pretty sure that players with very good sense of style, like JXQ, would make it really a star-worthy run).

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 4/27/2007 1:50 AM

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (288)

Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717

Add to that the myriad gliitches that the game has, and you have a run with tons of variety.

My favorite movies

Posted: 8/21/2007 6:26 PM
(Edited: 8/22/2007 1:52 AM)

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

After watching it for the 2nd time would the latest Gun Star Heroes movie make a good star nominee. I'm not too familar with the game but the run has the same sort of thrill affect as the Megaman 1 run, and its not too long and the action is varied. I'm not demanding it to be starred, its just a light suggestion.

Posted: 8/22/2007 12:31 AM

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Morrison

He/Him

Former player

Joined: 8/2/2006
Posts: 195
Location: USA

Here's my input if anyone cares. Remove Remove one of the sonic movies. I dislike having so many similar runs on the list. Variety should be showcased in this section. Remove a mario movie for the same reason I gave for the Sonic movies (need more variety). I know SMB3 is really popluar, but I honestly perfer the SMB and SMB2 (U) runs more because the SMB3 run has too many autoscrollers. I think the Yoshi Island run is good too, but it's just too long. Replace 120 star Mario 64 with 1 star. It's shorter and contains more surprises. Remove Zelda: A Link to the Past. It's long, and I think NES LoZ is the better of the two starred Zelda movies. Movies that I'd like to see replace the ones listed above: Bionic Commando: I never thought this should have lost its star. The game has exciting music, run and gun action, and the game sets itself apart from typical platformers with the hero's unique method of moving/jumping. This makes for a different TAS that is entertaining. Dragon Warrior: We have no starred RPGs. The dragon warrior run is short and sweet. It has what every good RPG tas needs: luck manipulation used to complete a long game unbelievably fast. The game is exceptionally well known, and it's also short enough to not lose a new viewer's attention. I don't really expect people to agree with me on this suggestion, but I wanted to throw the idea out there. Ninja Gaiden/Ghosts 'n Goblins: Well known and difficult platformers with fun music visuals and sound effects. I'm not sure if anyone agrees with me on these two games. The other movies on the list are fine imo. Anyone agree or disagree with some of these ideas?

twitch.tv/Retrogaming2084

Posted: 8/22/2007 1:51 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Well, since you ask… Remove a Sonic game: yes, preferably S3&K. While it's my favorite of all the published Sonic runs, the game is broken so badly that it doesn't appeal to a newcomer that much. Remove a Mario game: yes, preferrably SMB3 because of the autoscrollers. Although it's a tough question since on the other hand it's much more popular than SMB2 (both as a game and as a run), and the quality isn't really worse, either. Replace 120 stars with 1: yes, although I feel most people will disagree. Even though I played the game a little, the run is still very long and some of the parts are incredibly tedious (DDD, for instance). Remove ALttP: yes, NES LoZ is much better, anyway, and more obviously optimized at that. Bionic Commando: the current published run is indeed a worthy one for a star. RPG TASes: dunno, I'm not sure those would ever be attractive for an average newcomer, anyway. On the other hand, it's hard to decide which of them represent the RPG genre "enough" for the purpose (is Cirlce of the Moon enough of an RPG?). Ninja Gaiden: probably, preferrably NG2. Or maybe Super C instead. Run'n'guns are represented rather poorly on the starred list as of now (except Megaman, which we have more than enough), and they're actually very popular and show off TAS feats considerably well. I would also destar warpless Rygar (can't understand what everyone finds in that run) or give its star to the warped one. Also, how about starring Metroid Zero Mission instead of NES Metroid? And Gunstar Heroes is also a good candidate now that it's actually optimized and have a lot of thought put into increasing entertainment.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 8/22/2007 2:02 AM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Morrison wrote:

Remove Remove one of the sonic movies. I dislike having so many similar runs on the list. Variety should be showcased in this section.

Sonic 2 GBA should get the chop in my opinion, although if only one was allowed to stay then I would keep Sonic 2

Remove a mario movie for the same reason I gave for the Sonic movies (need more variety). I know SMB3 is really popluar, but I honestly perfer the SMB and SMB2 (U) runs more because the SMB3 run has too many autoscrollers. I think the Yoshi Island run is good too, but it's just too long.

They are a lot of Mario games and I think they'll be too much of a firm stance on each game to be able to boot one, I would personally remove SMW2

Replace 120 star Mario 64 with 1 star. It's shorter and contains more surprises.

Can't comment for obvious reasons

Remove Zelda: A Link to the Past. It's long, and I think NES LoZ is the better of the two starred Zelda movies.

ALttP should be taken down

Movies that I'd like to see replace the ones listed above: Bionic Commando: I never thought this should have lost its star. The game has exciting music, run and gun action, and the game sets itself apart from typical platformers with the hero's unique method of moving/jumping. This makes for a different TAS that is entertaining. Dragon Warrior: We have no starred RPGs. The dragon warrior run is short and sweet. It has what every good RPG tas needs: luck manipulation used to complete a long game unbelievably fast. The game is exceptionally well known, and it's also short enough to not lose a new viewer's attention. I don't really expect people to agree with me on this suggestion, but I wanted to throw the idea out there. Ninja Gaiden/Ghosts 'n Goblins: Well known and difficult platformers with fun music visuals and sound effects. I'm not sure if anyone agrees with me on these two games.

Can't comment much although I'm against starring any RPG games purley becuase there generally displeasing to non-fans.

Posted: 8/22/2007 2:12 AM

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Morrison

He/Him

Former player

Joined: 8/2/2006
Posts: 195
Location: USA

moozooh wrote:

give its [Rygar's] star to the warped one.

Agreed.

twitch.tv/Retrogaming2084

Posted: 8/22/2007 2:21 AM

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

I know you all love when I post in this topic. If the stars are truly supposed to be movies for new watchers, then they need a complete revamp. (The front page only says "recommended movies" now though, so perhaps the definition has changed.) The Common Tricks page talks about many of the common staples of TASing, such as

Speed abuse
Collision abuse
Luck manipulation
Damage abuse
Invulnerability abuse
Left+right/up+down
Boss fighting
2-player abuse (I added this one)

Pick stars by movies which show these and other TAS concepts to their fullest. For example, starring Dragon Warrior is excellent for this type of star system because it shows luck manipulation to the extreme, or Excitebike for speed abuse, or SNES Zelda for L+R/U+D abuse, or Kabuki Quantum Fighter for damage abuse, or Mario 64 for collision abuse. Don't worry about if a movie is more entertaining or liked or other things like that, because we have the rating system now for that purpose.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 8/22/2007 2:32 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Two major points: 1. Why pick movies that represent just one of those staples, when there are many movies that show several of them noticeable enough to get the point across? 2. The movies must carry great enough entertainment potential to fulfill the stated goals. And yeah, that means either very popular games or games that are just very suited for TASing.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 8/22/2007 11:10 AM

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (297)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

JXQ wrote:

If the stars are truly supposed to be movies for new watchers, then they need a complete revamp. (The front page only says "recommended movies" now though, so perhaps the definition has changed.)

The definition hasn't changed. You misunderstand. The "recommendation" is not a tour or an introduction to TAS. It is a selection of movies that most likely will make the watcher want to see more. Such a staple movie list would be better served as links accompanying such an explicit list of staples.

Posted: 8/22/2007 2:43 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (761)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Bisqwit wrote:

It is a selection of movies that most likely will make the watcher want to see more.

Ah, then my idea wouldn't really fit. Looking closer at CommonTricks, it already does much of what I suggested anyway (linking to example movies for each concept), so I guess I just need to read more carefully.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 8/22/2007 6:40 PM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (182)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada

Can my RCR run be starred? I know this sounds braggish, but the previous run was starred, so I don't see why a massive improvement shouldn't be starred.

Posted: 8/22/2007 6:42 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Perhaps because it isn't a massive improvement entertainment-wise (which is what RCR movies should compete in, actually)?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 8/22/2007 8:08 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1410)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

moozooh wrote:

Perhaps because it isn't a massive improvement entertainment-wise (which is what RCR movies should compete in, actually)?

That too, and I personally wasn't in favour of a star for the previous version either (Or, we are both mistaken, and it accidently didn't get a star when the newer version was published ;) ). To quote myself from half a year ago:

Baxter wrote:

The new Ninja Gaiden 2 run seems very suitable for a star. If it were up to me, it gets the River City Ransom star.

I'm still in favour of giving Ninja Gaiden 2 a star.

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 8/22/2007 8:28 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

You could also strongly argue that Arkanoid shouldn't be there as well as Mega Man 5, especially when the movie looks weak compared the other starred Mega Man run.

Posted: 8/22/2007 8:32 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away

Both are being redone by Baxter, though. And the new Arkanoid movie is going to be pretty amazing.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 8/22/2007 8:56 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1410)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

AKA wrote:

You could also strongly argue that Arkanoid shouldn't be there as well as Mega Man 5, especially when the movie looks weak compared the other starred Mega Man run.

moozooh wrote:

Both are being redone by Baxter, though.

I don't think it was really a coincidence that AKA mentioned both movies I'm working on... it seems like a response to my post. It almost sounds like an attack towards me. I don't know what I said that pissed you off, but you are clearly talking to me and not making a general statement, saying that both of the movies I'm working on shouldn't have a star, and even calling the Mega Man 5 movie weak. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to get at. Arkanoid has had a star since forever (which is obviously not a reason FOR having a star), and I'll probably submit a movie which attempts to improve it shortly. If that star is to be re-evaluated, I would suggest doing that after I submit the new version.

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 8/23/2007 2:03 AM

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (288)

Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717

Well, I'm relatively new here. When I first came to the site, I knew nothing about TASing, but I knew what runs I liked. Here goes. My idea for starred movies is to provide viewers with an idea of what the site has to offer while not overwhelming them. So the idea is to provide variety in a concise list. Here's my suggestion: Pick two games from both the Sonic, Megaman, and Mario series. My suggestion would be Sonic 1 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles; Mario 64/Super Mario World; and Super Mario Bros. 3, and either one NES one SNES Megaman run or two from NES. Pick one each from Zelda, Metroid, and Castlevania. One of the Super Metroid runs would be great. Castlevania's run right now is amazing. As for Zelda, I'm not sure Add to those: Two games that are so glitched to the extreme Zelda II glitch run and Excitebike for instance or maybe a GBA glitch run from the Castlevania series. Two games that are very stylized: Battletoads 2 - player and Gradius, e.g., or maybe Gunstar Heroes? (it would be nice) Two games that show amazing amounts of skill/luck or where the character moves very quickly and accurately. Ninja Gaiden 2, Super Bomberman 2, Arkanoid, whatever else. I'm having trouble with this one. Add to that one or two wild card runs, preferably not from the series mentioned earlier, and you have your list. Maybe Lost Vikings, or a grappling game. You can argue about my choices of runs as well as the overall schema. That's fewer games than are up right now, and it's more balanced between familiar series and other games outside those series. As for RPG runs: the problem with those is you need a knowledge of the game before you notice what's happening. Memories of the game are what makes the run amazing, not watching the battles, so I'm not sure there will be an RPG run that will appeal to a new user. (When I first saw the Chrono Trigger run, as well as all the Dragon Warriors, I said "so?")

My favorite movies

Posted: 8/23/2007 2:18 PM

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Warp

Banned User

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

Morrison wrote:

Anyone agree or disagree with some of these ideas?

Personally I think I agree with basically everything you wrote. I have for long complained about having so many starred Super Mario movies. They are just too many. In my opinion the rule of thumb should be: A maximum of 2 starred movies for a given game franchise (such as Super Mario), and only if the game franchise consists of very many games. Speaking of the SMB movies, personally I like the SMB2 one more than the SMB3 one.

Posted: 8/23/2007 2:23 PM

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Warp

Banned User

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

arkiandruski wrote:

As for RPG runs: the problem with those is you need a knowledge of the game before you notice what's happening. Memories of the game are what makes the run amazing, not watching the battles, so I'm not sure there will be an RPG run that will appeal to a new user. (When I first saw the Chrono Trigger run, as well as all the Dragon Warriors, I said "so?")

You assume that "new users" have never played those games. Many have (they are, after all, widely popular games), and many visitors might be interested in seeing a TAS of them.

Posted: 8/23/2007 2:43 PM

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P.JBoy

Any

Editor

Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!

Personally, I don't care about the recommended movies. Even when I first came to this site, I never checked it until about 3 weeks later. Having the recommended movies just seems to limit what you watch and limits variation. I don't really see why we have it, not all the movies on that page demonstrate anything recommendable demonstration wise.

Posted: 10/15/2007 4:19 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

I think Darkwing Duck would make a good replacement for the Mega Man 5 run. Like Excitebike, I would normally not choose to watch it but its surprisinly cool to watch plus it has great style espeacially when it jumps to the music.

Posted: 10/15/2007 4:33 PM

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Hina98

Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131

I checked out most of the starred runs when I first came here because I assumed that those were the most inherently entertaining. By inherently entertaining I mean entertaining without having played the games in the first place. Some of the starred runs were, some of them weren't.

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