Post by juef

Posted: 11/27/2006 5:30 AM

Post subject: Super Mario Bros. multi-run insanity

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

The Mega Man multi-runs seem popular, and I just had the thought of another popular series: Super Mario Bros.! Seems nuts, but then again, so are the Mega Man runs. First thing, is which games to run. Just the American games (SMB1, SMB2u, SMB3), the Japanese games (SMB1, SMB2j, SMB3), all four (SMB1, SMB2j, SMB2u, SMB3)? Frankly, all four would be the hardest, and possibly the most fun. The games don't give a lot of time between levels and areas to move freely in the other games, and they don't really have similarity in the level layouts to make it very easy; Super Mario Bros. 2/USA is an entirely different engine, and it has some backtracking required. The length of the games is also different, for SMB1/2j, we might have time to complete the hard quests, though it might increase the overall time of the run. I'm not currently planning on actually doing it, but I want to have my thoughts jotted down for everyone to critique.

Posted: 11/27/2006 6:17 AM

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Sir_VG

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Player (39)

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower

About the only ones you really could do are SMB1 and 2j. The rest are so off kilter it would be not likely to do.

Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing

Posted: 11/27/2006 12:26 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

The other problem is that none of the smbs have moves during which controls dont respond (except perhaps rare levels). There's no slide or roll or frequent pause. So it would be bumping into a pipe for eternity. But don't let that stop you. There's a lot you can do when you have frame-skip-powers and a multi-run of these mario games may gain even more fame then the megamans (Mario is simply better known then Megaman). Then again, outsiders may not figure out what the big deal is anyways... hmmm. Anyways, give it a try :)

qfox.nl

Posted: 11/27/2006 1:59 PM

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Shaded_Spriter

Joined: 8/31/2006
Posts: 56
Location: England

I will not be the first to say this but...ARE YOU INSANE! I think there should first try doing a demo with SMB1 & SMB2J to see if that is even posible... I can see alot of "running into brick walls and pipes" in this run.

Posted: 11/27/2006 3:16 PM

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Creatus

Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 81
Location: Finland

Am I the only one who thinks that this "multirun" thing is absolutely out of control? IMO entertaiment value is decreasing when multiple games are played simultaneously. Perhaps it's just me, but I think that even MMX & MMX2 double run messes already littlebit and it's littlebit hard to watch, even when there is "only" two games running simultaneously. I think people should just aim to play just one game in one TAS. Ok, I might be too "limited" person, but... this is just MY opinion. P.S. Next "multiTAS" is perhaps Contra and Castlevania played simultaneously ? -.-

Posted: 11/27/2006 7:15 PM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Yes, a SMB1 & SMB2j would probably work out best, but because of all of the differences between SMUSA and SMB3 compared to the rest, it seemed even more ambitious. Creatus: I respect your opinion, though you should calm down about it. The simplest answer would be, if you don't like these runs, don't watch them (it's like people that bitch about TASes being stupid etc, instead of just agreeing to disagree).

Posted: 11/27/2006 9:40 PM

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Creatus

Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 81
Location: Finland

Oh, perhaps I said it with unnecessary tone of voice. I'm sorry about that. But like I said, perhaps I'm just oldfashioned =)

Posted: 11/27/2006 11:21 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

It's more the fact that one set of inputs finishes both games then the run itself. Knowing they both use exactly the same inputs makes it so great. imo. yet, making a multi run where the other games knock their heads into walls while one actually plays are not good and i really think smb will be one of those.

qfox.nl

Posted: 11/27/2006 11:24 PM

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nesrocks

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Joined: 5/1/2004
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I'd be interested in a dual run if watching one of the games (or both actually) separatelly would pass for a normal TAS. So, choice of game is essential.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 11/28/2006 1:45 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

On that note, I think the two NES Zelda games would work as a dual TAS. It could probably be done almost as quickly as the normal Zelda 1 tas, using L&R movement in Zelda 2 wherever possible without to catch up to Zelda 1. I was working on it, but had some severe desynch problems in whatever game I had going in the background. Mario 1 & 2j could probably work. Even adding in Mario 3, with the autoscrolling levels could probably work. But I imagine it would be pretty slow, compared to the usual TASes.

Posted: 11/28/2006 9:10 PM

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qFox

Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands

Well I could see a "this game is a fair TAS for smb2, oh hey, and it will finish SMB1 as well by/before the time smb2 finishes!"

qfox.nl

Posted: 11/30/2006 8:17 AM

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skamastaG

Former player

Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO

It could probably be possible if you just stuck to smb1 and smbj. They are the only similar games. I am almost positive it isn't possible for a multi run for super mario world because flying requires that you press left which would mess up the game that isn't flying.

Posted: 4/28/2007 11:10 PM

Post subject: SMB1/2/2j and 3 all at the same time!

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karterfreak

Joined: 4/5/2007
Posts: 72

Well, I got this crazy idea today, why not run all nes smb games at the same time? Is it even possible? Well, were gonna find out eventually! Ill post a wip of the first level after i finish them. Say what you think of the idea here :-D

Posted: 4/28/2007 11:13 PM

Post subject: Re: SMB1/2/2j and 3 all at the same time!

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Filed into "has too much free time" category. :)

Posted: 4/28/2007 11:14 PM

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Raiscan

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom

There may have been a previous discussion about this idea elsewhere. It'll be interesting if its found to be feasible because SMB2 has alot of climbing up and uprooting things. Any idea how you will overcome this? Then theres SMB3's slightly different things like flying to take into account. If it works, this could be an interesting run. I trust you have thought it through a bit.

<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs

Posted: 4/28/2007 11:14 PM

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Shinryuu

Experienced player (538)

Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707

Woah your idea sounds insanely good :)

Posted: 4/28/2007 11:25 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

I think one of the good things about a multiple game run is that it will show that it comes from the same input. SMB1 and SMB2J look similar, but SMB2 and SMB3 will look quite a bit different, which might not be such a good thing. I have to give you though, that the movement in general is pretty similar so it is likely that it will be noticable that it's the same input. Would this be runs that use warps or not? In either case, the lengths of the movies are quite different, which I do think could be problematic. If a run finishes it less than twice the time another run finishes, it can be doubted if it can really be called a quadrun all the way through. Anyway, I'm interested in how this might develop :)

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 4/29/2007 3:08 AM

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karterfreak

Joined: 4/5/2007
Posts: 72

juef wrote:

Going left (SMB2 in some levels) and right at the same time sure won't be easy, but hey, looking at the MM3-4-5-6 and MMX1-2 runs shows it may be possible. Good luck, I can't wait to see a WIP!

there is a way, and ive tested it to make sure, but your not going to see it until my wip is up :-D

Posted: 4/29/2007 5:49 AM

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Chamale

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Player (178)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada

Here's a thought: Hit start, then hit it two frames later or w/e. As a result, you might be going in 1 or 2 games but not going in the rest. But it's cheap and not too entertaining. Other thoughts: In SMB and SMB2j, hitting left+right causes mario to moonwalk forward. What happens in the other 2? If there's no effect, than it might be a way to move slightly in one run, while not moving in another. Or, even better, it could be used to move in SMB and SMB2j while bossfighting in SMB2u and waiting in autoscrollers in SMB3. Obviously, the prioritized game will be SMB3. By "prioritized" I mean the important parts in SMB3 must override important parts in other games. This is because SMB3 will probably be the longest of the 3 runs. However, in autoscrolling parts it is likely the Mario will be "dragging the screen" while he runs in other games. As Juef said, going left in SMB2u will be hard. The levels where this is necessary are 1-1, 6-3 and 7-1, and to some extent 7-2. However, looking at 1-1, it is possible to go to the right instead of the left. This is almost certainly the better option, as SMB2u is medium-priority. In 6-3, it is also possible to go right. In 7-1, it is possible to stand still and make some progress, so left+right can be used.

Posted: 4/29/2007 6:00 AM

Post subject: Re: SMB1/2/2j and 3 all at the same time!

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jaysmad

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Experienced player (834)

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 629
Location: Mom's

Bisqwit wrote:

"has too much free time"

He's right! With warps mario 1 is 5 minutes, mario 2 is 7 minutes and mario 3 is 10 minutes.

Posted: 4/29/2007 7:33 AM
(Edited: 4/29/2007 1:30 PM)

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P.JBoy

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Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!

tbh, either do 1+2j or 2u+2j 1: 04:59.93 warpless: 18:57.73 2j: 8:12.25 warpless: 35:16.05 2u: 7:53.32 warpless: 20:14.20 3: 10:34.55 warpless: 48:29.17

Posted: 4/29/2007 7:38 AM

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jaysmad

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Experienced player (834)

Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 629
Location: Mom's

Exactly! So unless you extend the length of smb1 & 2, this is gonna considered as not "entertaining" and even if...

Posted: 4/29/2007 7:39 AM

Post subject: Re: SMB1/2/2j and 3 all at the same time!

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

jaysmad wrote:

Bisqwit wrote:
"has too much free time"
He's right! With warps mario 1 is 5 minutes, mario 2 is 7 minutes and mario 3 is 10 minutes.

That's not what I meant but, yeah, good point :)

Posted: 4/29/2007 7:53 AM

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karterfreak

Joined: 4/5/2007
Posts: 72

P.JBoy wrote:

tbh, either do 1+2j or 2u+2j 1: 04:59.93 wapless: 18:57.73 2j: 8:12.25 wapless: 35:16.05 2u: 7:53.32 wapless: 20:14.20 3: 10:34.55 wapless: 48:29.17

now add hard mode into the factor for smb 1: 9:59.86 2j: 8:12.25 2u: 7:53.32 3: 10:34.55 and the fact that they are all being played at the same time, they will finish a little slower. Estimated Finish for each game. 1: 5:30.00 (without hard mode) 11:00.00 (with hard mode) 2j: 10:20.00 2u: 10:00.00 3: 11:00.00 Seems pretty close by my estimations. Guess we will have to wait to find out.