Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Ahh the underground tunnel... it's been ages since I've "played" this game. There's still a problem with the proposed route though. Your rival is a vanishable object in Cerulean (0x20 bitmask at D5A6), so Snorlax won't disappear.
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334
http://www.trsrockin.com/glitchcity.html well wiki says that the place you come out is manupalted by the steps you take and where you were wrped back from. could this be of any use to skip to the victory road without having all the 8 badges?
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Maybe from vermillion city?
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
Phallosvogel wrote:
http://www.trsrockin.com/glitchcity.html well wiki says that the place you come out is manupalted by the steps you take and where you were wrped back from. could this be of any use to skip to the victory road without having all the 8 badges?
Well, actually, it's only manipulate by the place you were in when you got "ding-dong" See, one area of the game has up to 16 places the character can emerge from. When he leaves the Safari zone, he goes out of the 4th place in Fuchsia, the Safari zone. But in other places, the 4th place is different or non-existent. I remember a couple years ago, when I first heard of Glitch City, I found an even weirder glitch. I haven't posted here until now because idk how useful it would be. Here's the process: 1. Go into the Safari zone. 2. Go out. Say "no". 3. Save and reset. 4. Go out again and say "no". After this point, I'm a little fuzzy on the details, having not done this in years. 5. Fly to Vermillion City (Note: The city actually doesn't matter, but I like vermillion). 6. Bike around for 500 steps without fighting anyone or anything. 7. A message will come up saying "PA: Ding-dong". Clear it. I'm REALLY fuzzy on the details here. 8. Go into the Safari Zone again (?) 9. Go out (?) Now you can walk through walls. One problem is, I forget exactly how to execute this glitch, and the game tends to freeze up when you enter the black outside the Safari Zone room. But, it might be possible to somehow walk over to the Hall of Fame and register yourself.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
But when you go to the rivals room, the conversation leading up to the fight is automaticaly initiated. Plus, the game isnt designed for self registration in the hall of fame. Most likely, nothing would happen.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
Rridgway wrote:
But when you go to the rivals room, the conversation leading up to the fight is automaticaly initiated. Plus, the game isnt designed for self registration in the hall of fame. Most likely, nothing would happen.
Well, you don't need to fight the rival. Just never enter the room with the rival in it (preffering to go "through the black"). Also, though the game isn't meant for self-registration, it will work. I've seen it work with "warp-to-anywhere" glitches.
Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Rridgway wrote:
But when you go to the rivals room, the conversation leading up to the fight is automaticaly initiated.
This clearly isn't always the case. Even though the Red/Green versions are somewhat different from Red/Blue, all versions have some enabler/disabler bit for the final rival fight.
Plus, the game isnt designed for self registration in the hall of fame. Most likely, nothing would happen.
As Chamale has pointed out, when you use cheats to teleport to the Hall of Fame, Prof. Oak does handle the registration process.
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
Has anyone confirmed my process for doing the glitch? I don't have my game with me, so I can't.
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
What's the plan for "Item stuffing"? You know, the thing in Fractal's Yellow run so the gym leaders don't go on their monologues about how great the TM they just gave you is.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
I was (or rather am) a little curious about that too. Is it really worth it to pick up so many items and read through what you just got. FractalFusion, could you tell us how much time it actually saved in your Yellow run and what other advantages and/or disadvantages did it have?
Which run should I encode next? :)
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
Chamale wrote:
One problem is, I forget exactly how to execute this glitch, and the game tends to freeze up when you enter the black outside the Safari Zone room. But, it might be possible to somehow walk over to the Hall of Fame and register yourself.
I'm actually fairly confident that each "room" in the game is seperate from all others, so you can't "go" to another room from where you are by walking through nothingness.
Perma-banned
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You do not input anything to walk over to the rival in the american red-blue versions. ITS UNSKIPPABLE!!
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
hanzou wrote:
Rridgway wrote:
But when you go to the rivals room, the conversation leading up to the fight is automaticaly initiated.
This clearly isn't always the case. Even though the Red/Green versions are somewhat different from Red/Blue, all versions have some enabler/disabler bit for the final rival fight.
Plus, the game isnt designed for self registration in the hall of fame. Most likely, nothing would happen.
As Chamale has pointed out, when you use cheats to teleport to the Hall of Fame, Prof. Oak does handle the registration process.
You've said it before and you'll say it again, despite the fact that you've been proven wrong. You're like Bush talking about WMDs in Iraq.
Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Rridgway, here's a demo of what happens in the US version if we could somehow obtain one of the three walk-through-walls glitch items and shortcut to Lance's room: pokemonred_walkthroughwalls.vbm. Basically, this movie also demonstrates that the final rival fight is not activated by default.
Xkeeper wrote:
I'm actually fairly confident that each "room" in the game is seperate from all others, so you can't "go" to another room from where you are by walking through nothingness.
I guess the suggestion that we might "walk over to the Hall of Fame" has been misleading. A walk-through-walls glitch alone will not save as much time as a warping glitch. Nonetheless, it would enable significant sequence-breaks, such as entering Cinnabar gym without a key, entering Viridian gym early in the game, walking past the Elite Four (as demonstrated in the above movie), etc.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
But, normally yes, it is automatically activated right? My guess is that the items somehow turn off the programming that makes you walk over to the rival. Is this glitch any way at all similar to the walk throuh walls gameshark code? A list of sequence breaks i think could be abused: 1. Skip Mt. Moon (?) 2. Get to pokemon league without 8 badges (?) 3. Get to cinnabar island gym early 4. Skip Nugget Bridge 5. Walk to the hall of fame without f8ing the elite 4. 6. Skip Pokemon tower 7. Skip Silph Co. This is all I can think of, any more out there?
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Rridgway wrote:
But, normally yes, it is automatically activated right?
When you play normally, the relevant bit is activated at some point late in the game. That's why it doesn't matter in the case of dokokashira door glitch, which plays rather abnormally by skipping that point along with most of the game.
My guess is that the items somehow turn off the programming that makes you walk over to the rival.
No, it is nothing so complex. The action is simply default-disabled.
Is this glitch any way at all similar to the walk throuh walls gameshark code?
Similar in the sense that the movie I showed requires a GameSharked item. Unless someone finds a way to spawn arbitrary types of items, this particular example is merely a cheat and not a viable glitch.
2. Get to pokemon league without 8 badges (?)
Unfortunately, walk-through-walls alone does not get you past the badge-checks.
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
Rridgway wrote:
A list of sequence breaks i think could be abused: 1. Skip Mt. Moon (?) 2. Get to pokemon league without 8 badges (?) 3. Get to cinnabar island gym early 4. Skip Nugget Bridge 5. Walk to the hall of fame without f8ing the elite 4. 6. Skip Pokemon tower 7. Skip Silph Co. This is all I can think of, any more out there?
Mount Moon can be skipped, you can actually see the other side from where you stand. Though the current route involves glitching a level 1 pokemon in Mount Moon, idk how useful it would be. Here's a revised route, if the bug is possible early on somehow: 1. Skip Mt. Moon 2. Enter Cerulean Cave 3. Catch Mewtwo with Poke Ball 4. Beat Misty after walking on water to avoid her junior trainers 5. Walk to Saffron (Skipping the guard buildings), beat Sabrina (Skipping warping) 6. Walk to Vermillion, get bike voucher, beat LT Surge (Skipping the trash-can part), Escape Rope back to Cerulean 7. Get Bike, bike to Celadon by going over Saffron 8. Beat Erika, skipping the trainers by walking on top of them (lol) 9. Get Fly from recluse 10. Bike to Fuchsia, beat Koga (Skipping Invisible Wall) 11. Fly to pallet, or maybe not, but in any case bike on water to Cinnabar, beat Blaine (Skipping questions) 12. Fly to Viridian, beat Giovanni (Skipping the maze in the gym) 13. Go past badge guards 14. Bike over obstacles, etc to reach Elite Four fast 15. Go through doors to get to Hall of Fame registry. I don't even KNOW how much time that saves... It's a lot! Of course, it's counting on the fact that it would be possible to acquire the glitch item that lets you go through walls (Which I'm assuming exists). How many attacks would Mewtwo need to know? Assuming that all hits are OHKO, and only Gym Leaders are fought: 2 for Misty 4 for Sabrina (6) 4 for Lt. Surge (10) 4 for Erika (14) 5 for Koga (19) 4 for Blaine (23) 5 for Giovanni (28) My guesses are probably off a lot (too lazy to research this post) but it shows that his starting moveset will be sufficient.
Player (87)
Joined: 1/15/2006
Posts: 333
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Going back to a run which doesn't involve as-of-yet impossible to obtain items, I have a WIP of a Pokémon Blue Gengar run. I'm currently in Veridian forest, which isn't very far, but I still need to decide whether I'm going to be picking up items along the way (to prevent the Gym Leader speeches) before I progress. FractalFusion did this in his Pokémon Yellow run, but I'm not sure if it was actually faster (due to going out of the way, and the ridiculously long jingle for picking up hidden items). In this run I decided to rename the hero 'I', and the rival 'ASH'. This should save about 18 seconds over the course of the entire run. Thanks to a tip from Chamale, I was able to save three critical hits in the section, two from the very first rival battle, and one against the Weedle in Veridian (he noticed that with a attack DV of F, one could get one more damage against the Rival in the very first battle (this actually works with a DV of E as well)). I ended up Rolling E1EF, which is just about as good as it gets. I'm currently 140 frames ahead of my previous run, around 80 from the name change, and around 60 from better manipulation. As I indicated above, I'll be using Gengar this run, glitched L100 in Mt. Moon (which doesn't involve going out of the way at all). He starts with Lick and Night Shade, and I plan to learn Thunderbolt and either Mega Drain or Psychic later on (both have advantages and disadvantages... I still need to figure out which is better). Strength will also most likely replace either Lick or Night Shade. I'll also be glitching a Mew as a Fly/Surf slave while I'm performing the Snorlax skip. I really have no idea how much faster this will be than the published run, but certainly serveral minutes. I guess we'll have to wait and see. EDIT: Something I forgot to mention. I noticed while working on my 151 run that when an opponent requires one critical and one normal hit to defeat, that it was around 15 frames faster to put the critical hit at the end. At the time, I had (wrongly) assumed that somehow there was less of a delay when using a critical as the last hit. The real difference turns out to be that when the opponents health bar changes color (from green to yellow, for example), this takes 15 frames. This is why I saved one critical hit for the end in the Rival battle, to prevent the change from yellow to red. This also implies a possible change of strategy in other cases, particularly when needing two max damage normal hits. The first hit will cause the opponents health bar to turn yellow. An equally valid strategy would be to use a weak normal hit first, and then finish off with a weak critical. Not only is this infinitely easier to manipulate, it's also potentially faster: 0-10 frames (max normal + miss) + 15 frames (color change) + 0-10 frames (max normal) = 15-35 frames 0-2 frames (normal + miss) + 0-4 frames (critical hit) + 20 frames (critical message) = 20-26 frames Although the first case has a lower minimum, in practice it's usually in the 30-35 frame mark (average 7.5 frames to manipulate a max damage hit is about right). The second case requires almost no manipulation whatsoever. I think this will become my new strategy.
print reduce(lambda x,p:p/2*x/p+2*10**1000,range(6643,1,-2))
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
I just had a MASSIVE IDEA! Get the starter poisoned by a Weedle in Viridian Forest or w/e. Have him die while going over a ledge somewhere. In theory, this would result in him being warped to his house in Pallet and be able to go through walls!!!!!! I know that if you jump over a ledge on your 500th step while doing Glitch City, you'll be able to go through walls in Glitch City. I racked my brain for other ways you could warp while going over a ledge, and this was the only thing I could think of. Also, if it doesn't work, it might be possible to have this happen while going over a ledge on a bike.
LSK
Joined: 4/17/2006
Posts: 159
Chamale wrote:
I just had a MASSIVE IDEA! Get the starter poisoned by a Weedle in Viridian Forest or w/e. Have him die while going over a ledge somewhere. In theory, this would result in him being warped to his house in Pallet and be able to go through walls!!!!!! I know that if you jump over a ledge on your 500th step while doing Glitch City, you'll be able to go through walls in Glitch City. I racked my brain for other ways you could warp while going over a ledge, and this was the only thing I could think of. Also, if it doesn't work, it might be possible to have this happen while going over a ledge on a bike.
AFAIK, step counter only increments when ending a step. Not going over a ledge.
Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Yeah Chamale, I tried out your poison idea just now. It didn't work, for the reason LSK stated. However, it does seem a bit strange that the Safari Zone and poison effects use different step-counting mechanisms. edit: I realized that we can simply combine the above two ideas. End the 500th step while jumping off a ledge, then have the last Pokemon die from poisoning while inside the Safari building. Now we can perform many of those shortcuts (enter Viridian Gym early, skip Pokemon Tower altogether, etc). Congrats, Chamale. Here is a demo: pokemonred_sequencebreak.vbm
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
Yay! But Hanzou, did you test the idea with the bike? IIRC, it wouldn't work unless you used the bike for the inside-safari-zone trick either.
Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
I found the bike to make no difference on the success of any of the glitches. For the future run, of course it'll be important to use the bike when performing the glitch. 500 steps would certainly be a lot of time wasted if on foot... By the way primo, thanks for posting your recent WIP. I just hope this recent glitch discovery remains consistent with your initial progress (such as deciding to run Pokemon Blue and catching a Gengar). For a new route, it'll likely be worthwhile to use the glitch to enter Saffron Gym and Viridian Gym by force (to skip both Silph Co. and Pokemon Tower). Now the challenge in route planning is that you'll need to figure out how to (twice) best overlap 500 steps with other work in the game. I'm not so sure if it'll be worthwhile to skip Pokemon Mansion, but that's also something to think about.
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
Another note: What's the poisoning plan? It might be possible to use potions to "adjust" the exact amount of steps that can be taken after a poisoning. Some trainers do have Ekans, which could be used for poisoning. I think I know why the Safari Zone has different rules than poison. I once had a pokémon with 1 health that should have fainted when I stepped, but I saw a wild pokémon. I killed it, and the Pokémon fainted after the fight. However, in the Safari Zone, the rules are different. If you use the walk-through-walls trick and enter the Safari zone, you have 0 steps left and can walk around forever. So, if you saw a wild whatever in the Safari zone on your last step, you could go around forever. So, they programmed it to make that impossible. On that note, trainer-fly could theoretically be activated on the last Safari Zone step. On another note, I found that while in the Safari Zone building with walk-through-walls, the guy doesn't talk to you (unless you prompt conversation). So, in theory, you could skip the Elite Four guards. If you could maintain the walk-through-walls status. @hanzou: Pokémon mansion? I thought that's where you get Eevee?
Player (20)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
Pokemon Mansion is where you get the the key to open Cinnabar Gym! I'm not sure why the Safari guards don't blockade when in walk-through-walls mode, but the same isn't true for the badge checks. One nice thing, however, is that we can bike over the water and even skip the Victory Road cave area entirely. primo had mentioned that it would be a huge timesaver if there was some way to avoid having to push the boulders around, and now we have it. About the other route choices, I realized that the current TAS exits and reenters Viridian Gym, which won't be practical with forced entry. Instead of breaking into Saffron and Viridian Gyms, another route possibility would be to skip Pokemon Tower but break into Silph Co. That requires doing the glitch only once, and beating Silph Co. opens up Saffron Gym anyway, right?