yeah, less weapons because its a minimal-speedrun and less damage because I think its entertainly.
Btw, I still have the problem with the undo counter, its still starting from 0 after I reload the movie and try to go on with recording =/
But I uploaded the file again, I finished the first corridor after 6 min
http://freenet-homepage.de/mcbain/TGL/TGL_new.fcm
ciao
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Try to avoid damage, enemies get killed by ramming into you, which I assume gives you points which eventually gives you HP-up, which kind of kills the idea with minimalist-run.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
In this run "minimalist" stands for, to play only the necessary corridors (half of all) and to get less items in a good time
I dont care about getting less points or killing less enemys. Especially killing less or no enemys to get less points would be to difficult - you couldnt fly around in the space-part and more than 10 enemys (they will be there, fast) mostly cause a flickering of all units on screen so you partial see nothing - this wouldnt be entertaining, so I try to kill everything, even if I get many points and a HP-UP
ciaoi :)
I agree that you shouldn't worry about getting points by inadvertently killing enemies and the like.
One thing I always worried about was by the end of the game, there are TONS of enemies on-screen. For the sake of entertainment, it'd be very hard to decide which to kill and which to let go. I remember in my run, I ran into enemies I couldn't possibly shoot in time which I thought would be entertaining, but since you're trying to avoid damage (except for times like bosses, for example) this could be a problem.
yeah, I know what you mean, this last part is heavy. I played this a week ago and reloaded it just now - its impossible to shot all these little thingis (meteorites ?) which are flying in front of you, they are to much and to fast, especially that there is more than one boss to beat ...
I will handle this if get to this part
By now, I finished the second corridor and I think I killed all enemies. The next point is, that I have to kill myself to save nearly a minute of running back to get to the blue creature. I know that I said that I want to be hurt less as possible, but it's to much time, so its necessary -__-
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Bain wrote:
I know that I said that I want to be hurt less as possible, but it's to much time, so its necessary -__-
Now, you will probably think Im a jerk saying this but I just wanted to express my opinion and say that I dislike this kind of inconsistency and which I guess takes the purpose away of: "aims to take no damage".
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
no Angerfist, I dont think your a jerk :)
I dislike this "kill-action" too, but in my former posts I wrote "to get hurt as less as possible" and not "no damage" because I knowed that there will be a situation where I have to be hurt to go on with the run. After the first corridor endboss, this is the second time I get damaged and hopefully the last.
ciao :)
I don't think taking as less damage as possible should be worried about. I mean, under normal circumstances, sure, but when you're trying to save time (like walking through a room without touching a spawning enemy), then I say scrap the idea.
Oh, and for killing yourself to warp back, perhaps before you kill the boss in Corridor 2, you should take as much damage as possible without dying. When you finish the corridor, picking up the item gives 3 energy, but you have no choice but to pick it up.
Because of tactics like these, you should probably not worry about not taking damage.
My own two cents here, cause I'm interested in seeing this run go forth:
During the labyrinth sections, avoiding damage is easy - it's therefore not particularily interesting to take no damage and you should take damage whenever doing so would take time.
The corridor sections (the shooters for the uninformed) are often very challenging, and nigh-impossible to avoid being damaged in during some sections, so there would be some amount of entertainment gained because during the majority of the corridor, it's nothing but a fixed shooter until the boss arrives.
However, during boss fights you can save time noticably by taking damage, and therefore my suggestion is that you take damage whenever doing so would save time.
With tool-assisted runs, speed is the main focus, and secondary entertainments (such as avoiding damage) should really only be considered when you do not sacrifice speed in exchange for a nebulous secondary goal - especially if you're not consistant about it.
If you're going to take damage, then take advantage of every opportunity to save time where damage would save time. If you're going to avoid damage, avoid it completely - half-measures don't have quite the same impact.
With that said, avoiding damage in the corridor sections is certainly more entertaining than simply taking damage and restoring your life for the boss battle - since there is no time difference, you should avoid damage then. But in other cases, you shouldn't. The difference will be pronounced and, dare I say it, elegantly clear in the final product.
yeah, you r both right :)
thats my point of view too - I go on taking less damage as possible, but if I can save time, I will damage or kill me if its necessary
btw shallow - its a good idea with the corridor 2 boss - I will do this
bye :)
EDIT: Ok, I've finished the third corridor - all enemies were destroyed :)
still the same link
http://freenet-homepage.de/mcbain/TGL/TGL_new.fcm
ciao :)
Just finished watching both your runs - significant improvements visible as far as optimizations and such in the newer one, but I have some questions about the old run (cause it gets further) - specifically, why did you use the fireball against Optimom (I think that's what the spaghetti monster is called) rather than the lvl 2 saber? Wouldn't it be faster to follow him up close and use the saber, rather than avoid damage with the fireball?
Alternately, you could be shooting him from closer and get a higher rate of fire and more fireballs into him in a shorter period of time.
Also, in the intro stage, I know it's possible to earn a score power-up - I've done it on the console - but is that due to a longer boss fight? Possibly it's because on the console I would kill the slow-moving spinning discs rather than the meteors.
Does having a wider shot due to increased chips also increase the damage output of your main gun?
I've beaten the game a number of times but I'm not sure of the answers here.
Ok I'm currently watching it right now and up until a bit after Corridor 1, things seems great. But here are the things I've noticed:
In the area where you receive the upgrade for the first rapid fire, on your way back up, you avoid a butterfly monster to avoid damage. You should've just taken the hit because it's slightly slower to move diagnolly than in a straight direction. I know you're trying to avoid getting hit, but in instances like these where it saves time, just take the hit and move on.
Also, in the miniboss fight with the crab monster right above that rapid fire power-up I just mentioned, after you killed him and received the item he dropped, you didn't move straight back for the exit, instead, doing some weird loop. Why?
Also, another instance of taking damage when you should've occurred in the room above the room with the giant W in the main area. You killed two monsters with your bat to avoid damage. Again, you should just take the hit.
In Area 2, coordinates x5 and y15, fighting against the blue crab boss, it kinda looks like you didn't begin firing at him as soon as possible. Of course I could be wrong, but from playing the game for so many years, it seems like you could've started damaging him a few frames earlier. Is this just how it looks, or did you actually start damaging him as soon as he's available for taking damage?
In x2 y17 of area 2, you shoot a spider. Again, take the hit.
In x2 y15 (I believe), you did the same with another butterfly monster.
The blue miniboss fought in x1 y14 was fought beautifully!
In x2 y14, take the hit.
The blue lander upgrade you picked up right after that probably could've been picked up faster had you taken the hit...again.
In x3 y16, take the hit.
Corridor 2 was awesome, and I love how you killed him JUST as you went down to 0 health! Now THAT is entertainment.
Corridor 3 was also great. But would it be faster to also die after leaving there. From the top of my head, I know the room with the blue lander in which you spawn in isn't too far away to walk to, but it might be slightly faster to die after the third boss than walk all the way back. This should be tested.
Anyways, so far, I think you're doing great, but I think in all instances in which you would save time by taking damage, go for it. Now, I listed a lot of instances in which you should take damage. I don't know how much health you'd have left after all that, but if by some chance you have none and THEN you come across a room where you have to kill an enemy so as to not die, THEN don't take damage. I'm really not trying to be picky about that because I know you're adamant on taking little damage, but I'm fairly certain the finished product would be rejected otherwise.
Keep up the great work. :)
@ Sabikage
the level 2 (front)saber - I dont use it because of the spaghettis of the boss - I would be dead within 10 seconds or less - I cant avoid to get hit of them even if I try to fly away, because the boss is faster than me, so I use the fireball - I set a place for the fireball, run away, avoid his fire and shot again.
Your right, I could try to fire closer with the fireballs on him, but this would cause damage on me, and you know, that I try to avoid that. The monster is dead within 21 secs, a good time, I think
Your right too with the spinning discs - you get points by shooting them, so I didnt shoot enough in the intro stage to HP-up
The wider shot - hmm I think no: Its faster than the small shot but it shouldnt increase your damage. But there is an item that increases the output of your main weapon ---> http://www.badlydrawnkitties.com/images/136.png
There is also an item that increases your shields
you can see both values here by "attack" and "shield" ---> http://www.badlydrawnkitties.com/images/139.png
btw, I've played the game on console too and I think its one of the best games for nes ever, thats why I do this run :)
@ shallow - I try to answer it quickley, but could take a while ^^
ok shallow lets see ....
but one thing first - plz say me everytime the coordinates or even better the frames where this happend, so its much easier to find :)
rapid fire, butterfly monster, way back up - hmmmm, sry, dont know where
the crabmonster - if you speak about the first green one - the little loop back, is to get the item and destroy his last shot
the giant W in 2 X0 Y17 ? I killed the bats in walking by, that didnt really costs time, I think
looks like you are right about the blue crab :(
x2 y17 - this was a shot in walking by too (no stop I mean) - I had to go down too, to pass the red blocks
x2 y15 - this punching ball thing - the same, I shot it but I didnt stop
x1 y14 - hey, thanks :)
x2 y14 - yeah, that wasnt good, walking up and down ... hmm doesnt look good and you r right too, I could've get the upgrade a bit faster
x3 y16 - where ? cant find it in area 2 :(
corridor 2 - hey, that was your idea ;)
corridor 3 - I'm going to find this out tomorrow, if its faster
So, your right, there are some parts in the run to think about if they were the best that could've been done in that situation, but I think most of them didnt cost much time. But in the end are these parts to far away to change them, redo the parts after them and hopefully dont insert new mistakes
EDIT: For the next corridor I tested something - just not to shot ^^
Its working till frame 2926 (49 secs) - do you guys think that looks good ? But if you say "yes" there is the problem that I MUST shot cause there are to many enemys - its impossible never to shot except the endboss. What do you think ? Heres the file:
http://freenet-homepage.de/mcbain/TGL/no_shooting.fcm
I'll go back over the file tomorrow and let you know what frames I was referring to. I'll also look over that no shooting file you posted.
I also think that there should be a 100% run as well. I might try it again, but I can already predict that my short patience for TAS'ing will prevent me from getting far past the first stage, if that.
Guardian Legend isn't really a game where you can do a 0% - you can get the minimum items but it is impractical - and if you're going to do an any%, you might as well collect the items that help you complete the game faster, especially (if, in the case of hp score upgrades) if they don't take time away from other things.
I'm gonna agree with shallow - take damage whenever avoiding it would cause you to lose frames. Alternatively, killing the enemy ahead of time looks better than taking damage, particularily if you kill it at the last possible frame or precisely ahead of time.
Back to optimom - the fireball is the preferred weapon against him in realtime play because a, it's powerful, b, it's not fixed like the beam, and c, it destroys his spaghetti strands. I think tomorrow I'll do some tests and see if it's possible to do the battle faster with different strategies.
When you go pretty far out of the way to get some upgrades (over 1 minute for attack up + side laser, about 30 seconds for a chip upgrade), is it really going to save that much time later? But defense upgrades might be worth it if you can get 5 (makes you move faster) ... that'd be in area 7 if you only miss the one from corridor 13, but you skipped 2 more from minibosses already.
I never thought about using death as a shortcut to exit areas, either ... but it wouldn't save as much time in my case since I sometimes had to pick up a few things on the way out.
Sabikage wrote:
why did you use the fireball against Optimom (I think that's what the spaghetti monster is called) rather than the lvl 2 saber? Wouldn't it be faster to follow him up close and use the saber, rather than avoid damage with the fireball?
Alternately, you could be shooting him from closer and get a higher rate of fire and more fireballs into him in a shorter period of time.
I used the fireball for that boss in corridor 11 too (no saber yet) and it wasn't bad ... but I dodged more than I really needed to (took no damage) and didn't realize I could shoot the strands.
The fireball sure seemed to do a better job than what I used in corridor 2 (long thin laser), as well ...
However, I fought the second Optomon (corridor 3) pretty well with the level 2 saber, so that can be done (at least with the 2 defense upgrades I had by then).
Sabikage wrote:
Also, in the intro stage, I know it's possible to earn a score power-up - I've done it on the console - but is that due to a longer boss fight? Possibly it's because on the console I would kill the slow-moving spinning discs rather than the meteors.
Does having a wider shot due to increased chips also increase the damage output of your main gun?
I scored 34540 in the intro level (20460 before the boss) ...
The round things give 1000 points, worth missing a few other enemies if you have to, and the projectiles give 60 ... you'd get more of those in a longer boss fight so the points would add up, but I also tried to let enemies shoot as many as possible before killing them (like right before the boss).
If anyone missed it earlier in this thread, my run can be found here ... it goes up to corridor 5 (near the boss) and it's a 100% run (all corridors, minibosses, max upgrades, etc.), but it hasn't been updated for nearly half a year ...
If anyone missed it earlier in this thread, my run can be found here ... it goes up to corridor 5 (near the boss) and it's a 100% run (all corridors, minibosses, max upgrades, etc.), but it hasn't been updated for nearly half a year ...
Any plans to, uh, update it? It was fun to watch, although after lightly bothering you about it for most of that half-year I'm losing hope.
Hi guys
Hadnt much time today, went out swimming ... but still had the time to improve the fight against the blue optimom in corridor 3 from 21 to 11 secs. I'm using the saber lev 2 now, its really better than I thought - I'm taking some damage in this fight, but thats ok.
But I've found out something interesting - its sometimes possible to watch out his spaghettis even if you fight directly in front of him - if you have a close look you will see that there is a little bit of space between him and his spaghettis, sometimes enough space to get you through. I've updated my file, you can see this passing-through-action at frame 59500
http://freenet-homepage.de/mcbain/TGL/TGL_new.fcm
Sabikage wrote:
Back to optimom - the fireball is the preferred weapon against him in realtime play because a, it's powerful, b, it's not fixed like the beam, and c, it destroys his spaghetti strands. I think tomorrow I'll do some tests and see if it's possible to do the battle faster with different strategies.
to the c) part: this is only possible if you have the upgraded fireball, level 3 I think - so you can use this strategy later just against the red optimom
Just a heads up, I was playing today and remembered if you walk diagonally against a barrier (excluding the walls at the edge of the screen) while firing, sometimes you can pass through it. May prove to be a helpful shortcut later on when there are red blocks bisecting rooms
Sorry for not posting in a while, but I've been sick. I'm a bit better now and I looked at the video again the other day. I noticed a few other mistakes that I didn't notice before.
And to Itstoearly, you are able to walk through walls normally anyway after you get enough power-ups to walk fast. All you have to do is walk up and down diagnolly repeatedly.
EDIT: Ah nevermind. I offered to make this a joint effort with me, but I just don't have the patience. I'm always seeking absolute perfection, even if it isn't possible. While it's good to have this logic, with a game like this, it's enough to drive one insane. Good luck, though.
Yo!
I'm the guy who originally tried to do Guardian Legend!
I was cleaning out my hard drive and found my run that I made back in 2004!
In review, it's very unpolished and sloppy: http://disasterlabs.com/Seppel/GuardianLegend.fmv
* Moving diagonally is slower than moving in a cardinal direction. I did not know this when I was playing.
* I believe I possibly collected one too many red landers.
* The video desynchs at the start of Corridor 7.
* I attempted to get a 100% kill rate / 100% accuracy rate on every level, but I was very shoddy about that and didn't even undo the simplest of retries.
* Area 0 boss is absolutely horrible.
* I used death as a shortcut whenever possible.
My run was actually supposed to be more of a concept demo to prepare for a TAS than the TAS itself. No attempt at finding weapon damage values against bosses was attempted. I have no idea how far the TASing community has come with its technology, but here's what I'd need if I was to try this again (or someone to tell me how I can find out these values):
* Enemy and Boss HP.
* Weapon damage values for every level of Standard Gun and special weapons, and Enemy Erasers, vs. each enemy.
I doubt any special weapons except Saber Laser, Cutter Laser, Fireball, and Enemy Erasers will be used.
